Altered Carbon (Netflix)

[ggsimmonds]

but only because the rebels are portrayed as brainwashed killers. yeah, points to them for not being brainwashed luddites, but how do you establish an oppressive class system. a bunch of religious fanatics who force permanent death on people, and somehow you manage to make the people opposing them look bad?

though, i am still not clear on their motives, do they oppose rich people living forever because they only they can afford it, or do they oppose "eternal live" in general?

pretty sure this wasnt in the show, but i read the quell character bio for the books, and, jeezus:

She believed that all war is the result of unused male drive and the over-accumulation of testosterone in men, yet her own actions and views led to a great deal of violent action.

the future everybody, alex jones got himself a female sleeve.

My understanding is that the reason for rebellion is because she felt that only the wealthy could afford to have "eternal life" and that would widen the gap between rich and poor.

There is a separate group of people who oppose resleeving on religious grounds. Unless I missed it, religion and spirituality plays no part in her objection to the technology.

[HannibalExMachina]

but did she oppose sleeving in general in the end? because i really missed that amongst all the sibling drama tbh.

[ggsimmonds]

but did she oppose sleeving in general in the end? because i really missed that amongst all the sibling drama tbh.

Kinda.

She was opposed the public availability of the technology because of the ramifications. Her brainwash...er I mean sales pitch speech to get her people behind her contained parts that suggest she thinks sleeving destroys humanity, but she was in a sleeve herself.

I think its a matter of being opposed to the implementation more than the concept. From what she told Tak, she developed the technology to assist in the pursuit of knowledge, but once it became publicly available it was used in the pursuit of wealth.

[HannibalExMachina]

i see.

its still a pretty muddled ideology, after all only the already rich can afford real immortality. its like getting rid of modern medicine, because the rich have better access to it. for being such a smart, idealistic person, she sure is dense. that may be the point, but imo it sabotages the character.

[Pontifex Maximus]

but only because the rebels are portrayed as brainwashed killers. yeah, points to them for not being brainwashed luddites, but how do you establish an oppressive class system. a bunch of religious fanatics who force permanent death on people, and somehow you manage to make the people opposing them look bad?

By basically showing how society has devolved into a highly complex plutocracy with very little upward mobility at all - the good guys aren't really good. It seems like the only pure thing left in this universe are the bonds and love of family, that's the only thing that rises from the ashes even though the circumstances are still questionable

[Muizer]

Warning for mild spoilers.

Hmm, I felt that in retrospect there was a good story there, but the way in which it was told was actually rather poor. They should have put more thought into how to weave the threads of the story together. For instance, at the start of the series, Ortega seems unduly obsessed with Kovacs, but not for a second did I feel there was anything more behind that than the terrible cliche of male and female protagonists initially hating eachother only to become friends/lovers later on. Similarly, Kovac's sister was barely introduced, and not as a plot character at all, until she swooped in like a "deus ex machina", seemingly prompting a whole episode of flashbacks to fill plot holes. The character of Lizzie is similarly flawed, introduced early on but not evolving in any way until she transformes into a pivotal character right at the end of the series. I don't know about you guys, but I expect better from writers, whether of books or scripts, these days.

[HannibalExMachina]

By basically showing how society has devolved into a highly complex plutocracy with very little upward mobility at all - the good guys aren't really good. It seems like the only pure thing left in this universe are the bonds and love of family, that's the only thing that rises from the ashes even though the circumstances are still questionable

bonds o family what, because he was sad he had to kill his cray sister? and i dont ask for lily-white good guys, but christ, this is approaching 40k levels of good guys. the universe is run by plutocrats, and the only opposition around believes you can fix it by making them less immortal? where is good old marxism when you need it?

so naw, grandpas family values propably arent the message here, but i will be damned if know what it actually is. capitalism plus immortality, bad? found some quote from the guy who wrote the books:

Morgan's books are generally set in a post-extropianist dystopian world. Morgan described his "takeaway" of one of his books as

Society is, always has been and always will be a structure for the exploitation and oppression of the majority through systems of political force dictated by an élite, enforced by thugs, uniformed or not, and upheld by a wilful ignorance and stupidity on the part of the majority whom the system oppresses.^[1]

so yeah, seems 40k isnt so off the mark. i still think the series goes for social commentary, but does it very half-assed.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Warning for mild spoilers.

Hmm, I felt that in retrospect there was a good story there, but the way in which it was told was actually rather poor. They should have put more thought into how to weave the threads of the story together. For instance, at the start of the series, Ortega seems unduly obsessed with Kovacs, but not for a second did I feel there was anything more behind that than the terrible cliche of male and female protagonists initially hating eachother only to become friends/lovers later on. Similarly, Kovac's sister was barely introduced, and not as a plot character at all, until she swooped in like a "deus ex machina", seemingly prompting a whole episode of flashbacks to fill plot holes. The character of Lizzie is similarly flawed, introduced early on but not evolving in any way until she transformes into a pivotal character right at the end of the series. I don't know about you guys, but I expect better from writers, whether of books or scripts, these days.

I saw the introduction as a somewhat bungled plot twist - one that we sort of saw coming with their various re-sleeving events where we were led to believe they were lovers and not siblings. As for writing in general, it's gotten so poor I barely know what shows are capable of these days

bonds o family what, because he was sad he had to kill his cray sister? and i dont ask for lily-white good guys, but christ, this is approaching 40k levels of good guys. the universe is run by plutocrats, and the only opposition around believes you can fix it by making them less immortal? where is good old marxism when you need it?

so naw, grandpas family values propably arent the message here, but i will be damned if know what it actually is. capitalism plus immortality, bad? found some quote from the guy who wrote the books:

Morgan's books are generally set in a post-extropianist dystopian world. Morgan described his "takeaway" of one of his books as

Society is, always has been and always will be a structure for the exploitation and oppression of the majority through systems of political force dictated by an élite, enforced by thugs, uniformed or not, and upheld by a wilful ignorance and stupidity on the part of the majority whom the system oppresses.^[1]

so yeah, seems 40k isnt so off the mark. i still think the series goes for social commentary, but does it very half-assed.

Personally I prefer anti-heroes, but I'm willing to accept as a substitute difficulty in picking out who was actually acting for the correct reasons, regardless of what they were acting to accomplish.

[Halie Satanus]

As for writing in general, it's gotten so poor I barely know what shows are capable of these days

Not everyone's cup of tea. But 'The Leftovers' is stunning from start to finish. Easily some of the most original script writing I've ever seen. Starts off slow but raises the every episode from the middle of the first season to the last (there's three season's in total).. The ending, is ing brilliant... And the music, ach the soundtrack is exquisite..

It's impossible to give an example of it's quality without spoiling some element, but this probably gives an idea of it's depth...

Waning - profanity and (mild) nudity...

[Pontifex Maximus]

Damn, and good acting to boot. Where can I find this to watch?

[Halie Satanus]

Damn, and good acting to boot. Where can I find this to watch?

HBO, Amazon, the internet - probably...

[Pontifex Maximus]

Excellent, my HBO subscription is so worth it lol

[Commissar Caligula_]

Finally got around to finishing off the show. Bits of it were hit and miss, but overall it was pretty enjoyable.

[TheDarkKnight]

FINALLY finished.

It was alright. A bit convoluted and frustrating. Definitely could have been shorter. I think it basically boils down to "Cool concepts, iffy execution" for me.

Not sure where all the money went. I was expecting more for what the budget was rumored to be but hey..it's Netflixs money, not mine.

Looking forward to season 2.

[HannibalExMachina]

FINALLY finished.

It was alright. A bit convoluted and frustrating. Definitely could have been shorter. I think it basically boils down to "Cool concepts, iffy execution" for me.

Not sure where all the money went. I was expecting more for what the budget was rumored to be but hey..it's Netflixs money, not mine.

Looking forward to season 2.

its no Expanse, the whole worldbuilding in AC feels a wee bit tacked on to the crime story. or, maybe the other way round. anyway, the whole family-revenge-rebel story doesnt really mesh.

i might be biased tho, i have gotten too used to hard sci-fi having somwhat thought out socio-economics

[TheDarkKnight]

I wanted more world building. The crime aspect was solid but eventually just kinda...there?

I hope we at least have Purefoy for a cameo in season two. As always, he dominated every scene he was in.

Kinnaman was pretty good too. Surprised me after his performance in Suicide Squad.

[Roma_Victrix]

Purefoy was great, but then again he's great in anything he graces. I agree about the world created for the show being a little disappointing/underwhelming, but the show did have some strong memorable characters. For instance, the trusty AI barkeep and hotel owner dude imitating Edgar Allen Poe.

[HannibalExMachina]

I wanted more world building. The crime aspect was solid but eventually just kinda...there?

I hope we at least have Purefoy for a cameo in season two. As always, he dominated every scene he was in.

Kinnaman was pretty good too. Surprised me after his performance in Suicide Squad.

yeah, the worldbuilding is just kinda background noise, not really organic. its a backdrop, not a setting. unlike the Expanse, the crime story doesnt really lead into a more fleshed out universe.

[Commissar Caligula_]

I just finished reading the three books that Altered Carbon is based on, and I've gotta say that the TV show is way better.
The books are barely connected to each other, and pretty much completely and utterly ignore the events of the previous books.

[Gaidin]

I wanted more world building. The crime aspect was solid but eventually just kinda...there?

I hope we at least have Purefoy for a cameo in season two. As always, he dominated every scene he was in.

Kinnaman was pretty good too. Surprised me after his performance in Suicide Squad.

He switches bodies again. Anthony Mackie gets the role in season 2.