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Thread: Divide and Conquer - Advanced Warfare Submod v.0.1

  1. #1

    Icon1 Divide and Conquer - Advanced Warfare Submod v.0.1

    Hello folks

    I would like to introduce all of you to my Advanced Warfare mod, it is focused on rebalancing all factions roasters based on lore friendly warfare strategies that I have created for each faction, (these will be explained and possibly later even recorded) this should make each faction play completely differently, or atleast in alot more different way then it is in DaC vanilla.
    While doing this stat rebalance I was trying to create realistic depiction of what unit description and unit model says about the unit, while still keeping it lore friendly and according to the warfare strategy I created for the factions. This should create very immersive gameplay.
    Another part of my Advanced strategy submod is slightly changing the game dynamics while still staying true to the original playstyle of DaC. I am aiming for changes not so drastic but very functional. These changes are sort of similar to what Igni Ferroque does. Aka more diverse unit roles. Spears will be much more defensive and will have higher number of men compared to sword and axe unit for example who will be more useful for assaults but wont have as large number of men and will be weaker in defense so putting them in front line wont be very smart. And even then you will find spears with high attacks, huge numbers, huge armor just all kinds of types of units that I created thanks to playing around both with stats, prices and numbers. You will no longer see one entire tier filled with units with similar stats and same numbers.
    The last addition to this submod are elites. DaC already had somekind of elites but unfortunately thanks to the way Med2 works, even the most elite units DaC will sometimes die like nothing to cavalry charge or running into spears no matter the fact that they are like half gods in the lore and have super ancient armor that is inpenetrable. This can make the game iritating in my opinion as these expensive and especialy in DaC very rare units dont survive that many battles, even tho even in realistic mediaval combat, full plate armor knight would not just die to mob of pessant because his armor stats were off thanks to bad positioning in that moment. This all led to my belive that to maximize the immersion of the combat and overall warfare I need to find a way how to make elite units much more durable without making them into tanks that will just stand out in the game and will break both immersion and the entire game. I think what I have in this version finally is what I was looking for and thats why im sharing it here. Elites have much lower numbers but are still only slightly smaller according to med2 standarts, they recieved slight stats buffs tho and the heaviest looking even +1 hp buffs to exactly precent that instant death of fully armored elites that most of 1hp units face.

    Anywho, in this current version I have somewhat finished only few factions but this already makes short term campaigns with these a posibility and im enjoying playing as dol amroth right now.
    0.1 faction list: Gondor, Dol Amroth, Umbar, Harad, Khand, Rohan, Bree
    rest is still vanilla

    Installation instructions: place the file in your Third_Age_3\data and click overwrite (create back up before you do if you wish to play the vanilla again which I guess you will since this isnt finished yet)

    Dol Amroth: Based around the idea of faction with cavalry tradition, well trained units, low population but is rich. Your starting roaster consists of heavy armored spears and pikes with low attack, pike units being the more numerous one. They will be able to hold line quite well but will slowly melt to any better equiped unit with high attack. This means you have to use well your light javelins who are your largest unit, providing you with very strong short range firepower. Next are the gondorian swords who provide you with quite a big number of light assault units who can function defensively as well thanks to their large numbers. After that comes your cavalry which is quite strong and works well with your first defense units. Rangers stay almost the same and militia archers have low attack but quite good range, this is because gondor was supposed to has advanced bow technology over others according to lore. Haven guard are your elite, great assault unit with alot of durability. Swan knights will be tankies cav in the game
    Late game units will be somewhat unchanged cav with some buffs and quite low number units who are extremely well armored on the otherhand (not as offensive tho)

    Harad: Based around the idea of desert tribe hordes combined with exotic elites. All their early infantry has large numbers and quite high attack for spears but very low armor. This is to represent the warlike nature of these tribes and savagery but not having acess to high quality equipment. Archers have big numbers and attack but lack range (Harad was supposed to have only short bows according to lore). Trollmen have higher attack and missile attacks to better repressent their strenght. Assasin units are damage powerhouse while still being quite fragile and their serpet infantry has high damage and s. cav. is stronger. Other cav units are much more numerous.

    Umbar: Their pirates have low numbers but higher attack to better express the warlike nature of pirates but lower numbers thanks to them focusing mainly on naval combat. Rest of the roaster is quite strong, usually low numbers but either very defensive or good attack with high armor. Archers are just good. The roaster is still kinda lacking some extre flavor but it should now look more organized with the changes i made. Elites will be quite good attack spears for a spear unit, very high attack swords, and good archers. nothing too extreme

    Khand: The one thing you cant avoid when playing Khand is travelling long distance and therefor losing alot of men in process so I though about how to make it more fun for khand player while staying as immersive and role friendly as possible. Solution - Hordes. All khand units are extremely numerous while early units obviously dont have much stats, but to make you a bit special you will be able to deploy huge amount of cav and average to good archers. You archers will also be not that bad in meelee to better repressent their similarities with maybe mongolian style of warfare. When it comes to late game your cav units will be numerous for their tier while most foot units will have average numbers now but much better stats that will make them comparable to advanced nations like gondor. Elites

    Gondor: Idea of largest human kingdom with quite good tech. Also feudal meaning - big numbers low stats early - strong line infatry and elites later
    Their militia is nerfed but numerous. Most AOR units were buffed tho so that you will now look for more support there instead of depending on strong militia units. Your elites will be extremely armored and defensive spears, rangers who are now much more comparable to elves to better represent their experience and training and maybe even origin acording to lore. Buffed fountain guard and swords.

    also pls pardon my bad english
    Attached Files Attached Files

  2. #2

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer - Advanced Warfare Submod v.0.1

    Oh, this one is surely most welcome. I always thought, that DaC (and all other Third Age mods out there) needs some more diversity in unit roles and tasks. Waiting for the next release.

    PS. Your English is not bad at all, in my honest opinion. Although I am not the one to judge, since it isn't my native language either, but I couldn't find any serious faults there. Be more confident, friend!

  3. #3
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Jan 2011

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer - Advanced Warfare Submod v.0.1

    Nice with more modders around, with fresh ideas to share

    Kingdom of Lindon preview video out

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  4. #4
    Vifarc's Avatar Senator
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    May 2009
    Grenoble, France

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer - Advanced Warfare Submod v.0.1

    I'm not sure about what you meant, but I think your "in realistic mediaval combat, full plate armor knight would not just die to mob of pessant because his armor stats were off thanks to bad positioning in that moment" is wrong: a mob of peasant could immobilize a knight and puncture him in the joints of his armor or in the eyes.

    However, I'm waiting for your treatment of Lorien
    > > Divide&Conquer submod user, playing RealmOfLothl§rien (ThirdAge mod). < <
    My small products here.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer - Advanced Warfare Submod v.0.1

    Thanks everybody for their response. Sadly ever since I started seriously working on this (starting the day I started this post). My health condition got much worse and I am only now kinda getting back into productive mood. Havent installed new version of DaC yet, but when i do, I shall continue my work on that version of the game. I did have plenty of time to think about the mechanics of the game and how I would improve them.
    My short list of goals would be:
    -retweaking the combat of the mod by adding more defense skill to all units, while increasing overall attack of all units(this should make flanking ALOT more important)
    -setting roles for each unit in the game and create more unique features of the factions units roaster in the game
    -making the combat somewhat realistic and more immersive AND FUN by singnificantly increasing the power of elites while making their unit count smaller and price and upkeep significantly higher (I think in the previous version you would gave two millitia units having the upkeep of one haven guard) This should make elites much more of an tricky pick and definetly a choice rather then need to survive. Obviously to make this system perfect I should make non elite units that will be direct counters to certain elite type, just like it was in medieval warfare in situations where for example pikemen managed to defeat saddled knights.
    -the fun part is very interesting, I have noticed some of the mechanics or playstyles dac decided to keep in the game are very flustrating (this comes from the head develop himself, I think said it when adressing dwarven playstyle in his preview video) So my goal would be to find a way how to get dac rid of these flustrating parts while still staying true to the main story and LOTR. When it comes to dwarves I might increase their movement speed abit. Make some of their units into sprinters that would be able to catch up with skrimishers for the rest of the squad so that every fight with them just doesnt turn in you chasing skrimishers for 30 minuts and instead you are given some options while still maintaining the core slowness of dwarves.
    -this together should mean almost complete rebalance of the descr_unit file and all units
    -and factions having very different battle styles that I will later acompany with immersive and RP explanation of how did they developed their technology and fighting style
    -RETWEAKING MORALE so that non trash units actually rout sometimes, all I know it can be abit ridiculous with a few of them, so thats on a list too
    -when all this is done Im hoping to move on to changing recruitment times or even building stats but that seem quite far away atm
    Last edited by Dapacem; March 06, 2018 at 08:20 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer - Advanced Warfare Submod v.0.1

    Plate armor knights - the heaviest of them all. To reach somewhat immersiveness with their heavy plate armor (making the plate amor play a significant role how will this units operate rather then some +2 armor stat) I will give plate armored units significantly higher armor stats while reducing their defensive skill and possibly even shield if they have one. This will due the game mechanics make the unit much more durrable againts normal oponents even when flanked however armor piercing units will be that much stronger againts them on the other hand.

    Also while humans will have quite a diversity in the types of plate armored knights. Im hoping to make dwarves elites slow and extremely tanky slopes of metal, while elves on the other hand wont recieve the penalties to defense stats and possible movement speed other factions do.

    (I think I could even turn this into game mechanics, where the armor type would be reflected by the armor/defensive skill ratio, it overall means they will suffer less from being flanked - but increases the effectiveness of armor piercing weapons on them.)

    This will also change the effectiveness of ranged weapons on them which could be quite nice especialy for bows, but it also means I would probably need to buff some bowmen and definetly buff damage of crossbows. I will definetly have to be careful with what I change.
    Last edited by Dapacem; March 06, 2018 at 04:10 PM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer - Advanced Warfare Submod v.0.1

    Have you ever seen someone in a real medieval armour? Or maybe tried one yourself?
    They're much more comfortable than they might seem, and don't constrain movement as much as you might think.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer - Advanced Warfare Submod v.0.1

    You have to understand that to achieve somewhat realistic depection of combat I will have to overlook certain aspects and add much more substance to others to get what I am aiming for here. And yes I have seen one and wore one myself, I know quite alot about medieval warfare as I have studied it for some time now.
    The new system I am developing is something that have not yet been seen before or very rarely atleast and I am having very high hopes for it. After trying to go for somewhat for what most moders try to do and just taking the medieval unit stats as somekind of note where you add in numbers the quality of armor, shield and training of the certain unit, I have realized that for achieving the realistic warfare to happen in the medieval 2 engine you have to stop taking unit stats that way and instead use the mechanics behind these stats to actually create units according to what would they be in real life. You have to think of the way they fought, this means how much of armor are they really using and how much of the shield they have are they using. If you have an assault infantry for example they are most likely just going to run in and start cutting people into pieces instead of trying to use the full potential of their armor like a knight, who has been properly trained to do that, would.
    Great example for this are naked units with a helmet. If you are doing things the old way, you just look at the unit, see its naked but has a very nice heavy helmet, so you go - okay thats armor let me give that unit one or two armor stats and thats that.------>now for the way I will be doing this - if you give the armor stat to unit based of a helmet in the medieval engine, you now have a unit that takes -1 or -2 from missile damage and thats from all sides. Well there is nothing wrong with that you say. NO. There is plenty wrong with that. You see being naked and wearing only helmet actually isnt as stupid as it might sound as it has its use especialy if the unit has a shield. This means that the soldier wearing this equipment now has the ability to completely shield themself from arrow fire or possible attacks from one direction if they put they shield up phalanx style. However if you aproach this unit from any other direction you will have 95 percent of body fully exposed to absolutely anything and anyone attacking this person would simple avoid the helmet. THIS is the reason why in my system that fully understands these connections such unit will get bonus stat to SHIELD instead of ARMOR. (it will still depend on the helmet obviously but you get the idea I hope)

  9. #9

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer - Advanced Warfare Submod v.0.1

    Here is quick run up of the factions in my mod.
    Gondor - variety nation with elite choke point holding units.
    Dol Amroth - variety combined with expensive heavy armored infantry and superb knights. Downside is that they will be expensive.
    Rohan - skilled and affordable light and medium infantry with alot of cheap cav in high numbers
    Dunedain - very strong archers and assault units with high attacks, similar to elves in many ways
    Enedway(forgot the dang name sorry) - hordes of high in number assault units with little to no armor. Pain when they get to you, easy pray for any missile fire tho
    Dunland - Skilled and welled quiped assault units that lack in numbers. High attack. (similar to vikings)
    Dale - archers with long range and variety of units
    The vale people - high in attack, strong in defense, lacking in equipment. natural warriors
    Dorwinion - lots of expensive medium and heavy units that are well equiped
    Bree - high in numbers, weak at attack, good in defense
    Uruk-Hai - all URUK units will be scary af
    mountain orcs - elites will have dwarf like armor (since they invaded their caves duhhh)
    angmar - knight like elites
    mordor - stays the same i guess
    dol guldur - all the shadowy people will be alot scarier
    dwarves - elites have superb heavy armor - trying to kill them without ap will be suicide, others will be great defensive units
    elves - superb archers with low numbers(they will slaughter anybody with their archer fire and elites will stand chance even againts heavy armored units because according to lore they were able to shoot in armor weakspots but thanks to their low numbers they wont be able to shoot as many arrows as they would want, making the damage limited and weak when faced with large numbers of enemies) will be low in numbers but experts at 1v1 combat, will slaughter anybody if in chokepoint, surround them and youll slaughter them - this combined with all orcs being better at surrounding will make the orc vs elf combat much more interesting and tactical

    still working on how will the different dwarves and elven factions differentiate

    khand, harad, rhun - in short their tribal units (the weak ones) will be high in numbers, this goes to cavalry aswell and they will have very good to superb archers with limited range compared to factions with longbows (according to lore they had composite bow but were really good at using it) elites will differ but will be able to challange other factions

    umbar - pirates i guess
    Last edited by Dapacem; April 12, 2018 at 01:22 PM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer - Advanced Warfare Submod v.0.1

    status update: im most likely going to die before finishing this project

  11. #11

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer - Advanced Warfare Submod v.0.1

    Status update: I am close to finally finishing version 0.2 that will be for current version of divide and conquer (atleast I hope so, I dont think they were adding any new units in 2.2)

    units seem to work as intended after testing them and upkeep should be now better resembling unit ranking and quality - militia will cost little to nothing while of course providing nothing but meatshield while knights with expensive equipment will cost you much more then what they would before and all of this should still be within the limits of dac/third age very limited economy managment so im very optimistic about my work so far. I am kinda sad about some of the roaster changes that have been made but together with my entire rewamp of the stat system even very similar looking units should now find their unique spot in the game.

    My perfectionism has been kinda holding me back with this things so I decided to just go ham so that I can already offer people something to check out for themself and what I will release should still be better then 0.1 that ran on dac 1.2 but it will be very open to futher fixing and balancing
    Last edited by Dapacem; May 02, 2018 at 03:19 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer - Advanced Warfare Submod v.0.1

    Hey, I replaced the file but now when I open the batch file (the game), it closes after it open right before loading the menu.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer - Advanced Warfare Submod v.0.1

    yeah that seems like an issue with the new version of the game

    Well anyway I am sad to announce that I am discontunuing the work on this submod for time unknown, I have beta version ready but it would require me to transfer the changes to v2.3 desc file

    reason for discontinuation is that after seeing alot of the new units are women fighters
    and seeing that a modding team that spends half a year working on aspects of the mod that are only related to immersion so that they could then add barbarian women chating unit equiped with huge two hand swords
    I come to a conclusion that such modding team isnt the best at making decisons and I no longer feel like putting time into making this submod

  14. #14

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer - Advanced Warfare Submod v.0.1

    *shrug* Your call. But I feel I should point out here that it is within your power to remove the units in question as part of your submod if that's what was really upsetting you.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer - Advanced Warfare Submod v.0.1

    That's a pity, I think that your approach is really interesting (especially the gameplay part) and I'd love to see that finished. I agree that some changes can be off-putting, but as Hummingbird says, that's easy to sort out.

    Well, I honestly hope you reconsider!

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