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Thread: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

  1. #81
    FrozenmenSS's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era announcement coming on Thursday!

    Quote Originally Posted by katsusand View Post
    As someone who hadn't played the Warhammer games, can you explain the engine upgrades? More specifically, how did the melee combat improve?
    the stupid poking with sticks from Rome 1 and medieval 2 is back. What I like from Attila and the Rome 2 games is the mix between the poking in the air with swords and the match combat.In Warhammer its only the poking.

  2. #82

    Default Re: New Historical total war era announcement coming on Thursday!

    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenmenSS View Post
    the stupid poking with sticks from Rome 1 and medieval 2 is back. What I like from Attila and the Rome 2 games is the mix between the poking in the air with swords and the match combat.In Warhammer its only the poking.
    Good stuff lol
    Poking looks bad visually, but it doesn't negatively effect the gameplay where formations break down.

  3. #83
    craziii's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era announcement coming on Thursday!

    Quote Originally Posted by Epic28 View Post
    Thats more technical on the side of optimization, I believe we were both referring to gameplay mechanics within the engine upgrades. Does the melee combat still suffer from the same issues of Rome 2/ATW where they all just blob and none of the units have a mass characteristic in battle.

    As far as technically optimizations go, well one would hope that the engine received various performance enhancing elements, ATW and Rome 2 were very very rough performance wise on decent PCs because they catered to the low spec consumers out there and it cratered high end users with really unfortunate bottlenecks.
    that is very very different than what you were referring to. gameplay mechanics is not engine upgrades. engine upgrades =/= changing gameplay mechanics. I don't understand how you connect the two. the blob issue has been solved as far as I know. only time I have seen blobs are when both sides trying to defend/take a choke point like a fallen gate in a siege. which is very normal. and it doesn't slow down the game at all like the rome 2/attila blobs do. you can easily check warhammer battle videos on youtube to confirm this.

    low performance on high end pcs was why they upgraded. it worked.

    Quote Originally Posted by katsusand View Post
    Good stuff lol
    Poking looks bad visually, but it doesn't negatively effect the gameplay where formations break down.
    should watch some warhammer battles on youtube, would give some answers. the battles in warhammer is pretty epic
    Last edited by craziii; January 11, 2018 at 10:36 AM.
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  4. #84

    Default Re: New Historical total war era announcement coming on Thursday!

    Quote Originally Posted by craziii View Post
    should watch some warhammer battles on youtube, would give some answers. the battles in warhammer is pretty epic
    I could only find close ups with Human VS Monster race battles... Do you have a video with Human VS Human battles with close up shots?

    Y'know, for comparison's sake.

  5. #85
    Epic28's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era announcement coming on Thursday!

    Quote Originally Posted by craziii View Post
    that is very very different than what you were referring to. gameplay mechanics is not engine upgrades. engine upgrades =/= changing gameplay mechanics. I don't understand how you connect the two. the blob issue has been solved as far as I know. only time I have seen blobs are when both sides trying to defend/take a choke point like a fallen gate in a siege. which is very normal. and it doesn't slow down the game at all like the rome 2/attila blobs do. you can easily check warhammer battle videos on youtube to confirm this.

    low performance on high end pcs was why they upgraded. it worked.
    I connect the two because the engine used in Med 2 and Rome 1 were far superior for simulating melee battles. The Warscape engine is absolutely terrible for simulating melee conflicts because the units mesh through one another. The silly matched combat animations are straight out of Hollywood and whilst they may look entertaining at first, they really interfere with the combat mechanics as a whole. They don't hold any resemblance of a formation and thus blob into a giant ant mound of bodies, even in open field battles.

    I've watched a bit of the Warhammer stuff but being its fantasy and my complete ignorance to the franchise/lore, I'm not sure what is really going on or what certain units are suppose to actually do. Usually a dragon or a giant came in and just destroyed everything in the videos I saw too.
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  6. #86

    Default Re: New Historical total war era announcement coming on Thursday!

    Sooo.. Tekken:Total War??.. I think I'll pass again.. It seems like they're still trying to marry strategy/historical with fantasy. They might prove me wrong, but my first impression was that it looked like the hero was front and center of the game to wipe out half an army.. yawn. This isn't a "back to their roots" game. I'm a strategy gamer and I've played TW games from the start.. (almost exclusively.. aside from an occasional COD game). Yes I understand the game aren't 100% historical, and I wish they implemented certain aspect just like everyone else.
    Like I said they may prove me wrong.

    in my opinion I would've pre-ordered a crusade/based game.. I loved MTW I & II, and with today's graphics, it could've been epic

  7. #87

    Default Re: New Historical total war era announcement coming on Thursday!

    I don't understand the cries about this being a "fantasy game".

    Yes, it's seemingly based on the Romance of the Three Kingdoms novel, but so what? The novel isn't fantasy, it's grounded in history, despite having fictitious story elements. In a game such as TW, you make your own history. So whether it's based on real history or the RotTK novel, it doesn't matter. As long the units and buildings look historically accurate, then it's fine.

    As for Hero units, they will be perfectly fine if they followed Shogun 2's module, where the Hero units are hard to get and expensive, and you can only have one of them.

  8. #88
    craziii's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era announcement coming on Thursday!

    Quote Originally Posted by katsusand View Post
    I could only find close ups with Human VS Monster race battles... Do you have a video with Human VS Human battles with close up shots?

    Y'know, for comparison's sake.
    easy to find, search for empire lets plays. surrealbeliefs have really good warhammer lets plays. he actually talk about alot of the lore during his play throughs and voiced how he plays. try this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDoI...FI4GlefD9M744h you can skip forward to the battles, there are more in the playlist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Epic28 View Post
    I connect the two because the engine used in Med 2 and Rome 1 were far superior for simulating melee battles. The Warscape engine is absolutely terrible for simulating melee conflicts because the units mesh through one another. The silly matched combat animations are straight out of Hollywood and whilst they may look entertaining at first, they really interfere with the combat mechanics as a whole. They don't hold any resemblance of a formation and thus blob into a giant ant mound of bodies, even in open field battles.

    I've watched a bit of the Warhammer stuff but being its fantasy and my complete ignorance to the franchise/lore, I'm not sure what is really going on or what certain units are suppose to actually do. Usually a dragon or a giant came in and just destroyed everything in the videos I saw too.
    well that was because of matched combat. that was not because of game engine. and unit collision was never a problem in total war games. I think you are confused with some of the total war clones who never got unit collision like alot of those battle only clone games. you will be surprise how easily a dragon dies to just a single unit of AP range unit. hell even a mid tier spear with anti large can kill most dragons or huge monster types. how difficult is it to tell what a spear unit does? or an archer unit? cavalry unit? the only difference warhammer have with older tw games are monster units, magic, and flying units. the game also got great tooltips for the new stuff and vastly improved UI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goots View Post
    Sooo.. Tekken:Total War??.. I think I'll pass again.. It seems like they're still trying to marry strategy/historical with fantasy. They might prove me wrong, but my first impression was that it looked like the hero was front and center of the game to wipe out half an army.. yawn. This isn't a "back to their roots" game. I'm a strategy gamer and I've played TW games from the start.. (almost exclusively.. aside from an occasional COD game). Yes I understand the game aren't 100% historical, and I wish they implemented certain aspect just like everyone else.
    Like I said they may prove me wrong.

    in my opinion I would've pre-ordered a crusade/based game.. I loved MTW I & II, and with today's graphics, it could've been epic
    hehe, I hope CA does well with this game despite all the china haters
    fear is helluva drug
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    “The only rule that ever made sense to me I learned from a history, not an economics, professor at Wharton. "Fear," he used to say, "fear is the most valuable commodity in the universe." That blew me away. "Turn on the TV," he'd say. "What are you seeing? People selling their products? No. People selling the fear of you having to live without their products." freakin' A, was he right. Fear of aging, fear of loneliness, fear of poverty, fear of failure. Fear is the most basic emotion we have. Fear is primal. Fear sells.” WWZ

    Have you had your daily dose of fear yet? craziii
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  9. #89

    Default Re: New Historical total war era announcement coming on Thursday!

    Quote Originally Posted by craziii View Post
    easy to find, search for empire lets plays. surrealbeliefs have really good warhammer lets plays. he actually talk about alot of the lore during his play throughs and voiced how he plays. try this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDoI...FI4GlefD9M744h you can skip forward to the battles, there are more in the playlist.

    well that was because of matched combat. that was not because of game engine. and unit collision was never a problem in total war games. I think you are confused with some of the total war clones who never got unit collision like alot of those battle only clone games. you will be surprise how easily a dragon dies to just a single unit of AP range unit. hell even a mid tier spear with anti large can kill most dragons or huge monster types. how difficult is it to tell what a spear unit does? or an archer unit? cavalry unit? the only difference warhammer have with older tw games are monster units, magic, and flying units. the game also got great tooltips for the new stuff and vastly improved UI.

    hehe, I hope CA does well with this game despite all the china haters
    I'm not a china hater.. if it's historic and not fantasy.. then i'm in.. someone in a previous post added some unit card designs.. not sure if they're part of the game or he just created them cuz he was bored..lol.. but those were great had me intrigued.. If i even sniff a dragon somewhere ...I'm out..lol

  10. #90
    EmperorBatman999's Avatar I say, what, what?
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era announcement coming on Thursday!

    With the emphasis on martial arts, I highly doubt we’ll see a departure from 1 v 1 combat animations.

  11. #91

    Default Re: New Historical total war era announcement coming on Thursday!

    Wow after all this time, CA releases a real-life TW title set in the non-Western hemisphere to be sure to please the historical grognard audience. And to be sure the first comments here are rife with negativity. Boo hoo the Shu bros in the trailer wear a historically inaccurate teal uniform instead of the vermillion red, what a bunch of fantasy garbage. Boo hoo, Han China is too mainstream for me, I wanted a new TW game set in 1880's West Virginia, detailing the epic struggle between the Hatfields and McCoys. Boo hoo I don't know what I want, but no matter what CA does I will complain incessantly.

    To all the CA people who might for some reason happen upon this thread, don't worry, this is just our way of being tsundere. It's not like we actually want to play your games all day long or anything, baka.
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; January 12, 2018 at 07:20 AM. Reason: Insulting sentence removed

  12. #92

    Default Re: New Historical total war era announcement coming on Thursday!

    The game doesn't look like there will be Warhammer like magical stuff. It simply looks like heroes will be an emphasis though, which is a glorified general from basically any standard Total War game.
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  13. #93
    Epic28's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era announcement coming on Thursday!

    Quote Originally Posted by craziii View Post
    the only difference warhammer have with older tw games are monster units, magic, and flying units. the game also got great tooltips for the new stuff and vastly improved UI.

    Haha well to be honest, that's a pretty large difference for someone like me who's mostly familiar with Roman Legions

    But to your last point, that's good to hear. Honestly my main complaint over the last two historicals of R2 and ATW has been the streamlined campaign and the rough UI (R2 especially, online encyclopedia?!). The battles were a bit arcadey but easy mods replaced or improved a lot of the issues I had with the constant micro-ing of the vast unit abilities activate buttons.

    If warhammer 1 and 2 have made spending time on the campaign more enjoyable and adding some depth back to it where I feel R2/ATW were lacking, it makes me feel better about the release of 3K. So long as they dont blend any of the fantasy elements from WH1&2 into their historical titles. I'd rather be fully immersed in the history of ancient China rather than see it glorified into some Dynasty Warriors esque gameplay.
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  14. #94
    craziii's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era announcement coming on Thursday!

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Jung was right View Post
    Wow after all this time, CA releases a real-life TW title set in the non-Western hemisphere to be sure to please the historical grognard audience. And to be sure the first comments here are rife with negativity. Boo hoo I don't want to play as slanty eyed Orientals, I already had enough of them in Shogun. Boo hoo the Shu bros in the trailer wear a historically inaccurate teal uniform instead of the vermillion red, what a bunch of fantasy garbage. Boo hoo, Han China is too mainstream for me, I wanted a new TW game set in 1880's West Virginia, detailing the epic struggle between the Hatfields and McCoys. Boo hoo I don't know what I want, but no matter what CA does I will complain incessantly.

    To all the CA people who might for some reason happen upon this thread, don't worry, this is just our way of being tsundere. It's not like we actually want to play your games all day long or anything, baka.
    ahhahaha

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    The game doesn't look like there will be Warhammer like magical stuff. It simply looks like heroes will be an emphasis though, which is a glorified general from basically any standard Total War game.
    hell, even in warhammer, the non magic heroes/generals are quiet normal besides those quest reward gears. I honestly love how the general skills can improve the stats of the units. even a max out general can be killed with a late game AP melee unit. they aren't monsters that people make it out to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Epic28 View Post
    Haha well to be honest, that's a pretty large difference for someone like me who's mostly familiar with Roman Legions

    But to your last point, that's good to hear. Honestly my main complaint over the last two historicals of R2 and ATW has been the streamlined campaign and the rough UI (R2 especially, online encyclopedia?!). The battles were a bit arcadey but easy mods replaced or improved a lot of the issues I had with the constant micro-ing of the vast unit abilities activate buttons.

    If warhammer 1 and 2 have made spending time on the campaign more enjoyable and adding some depth back to it where I feel R2/ATW were lacking, it makes me feel better about the release of 3K. So long as they dont blend any of the fantasy elements from WH1&2 into their historical titles. I'd rather be fully immersed in the history of ancient China rather than see it glorified into some Dynasty Warriors esque gameplay.
    fyi, it is still online but it's speed has made great strides, very fast now. it is how ca collects data on us gamers. if you want slower battles, it is easy to do. use pfm and change unit morale, hp(make sure you also change ammunition # accordingly or you will make range units useless). the most important thing, the defend button is back. that solved alot of problems

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorBatman999 View Post
    With the emphasis on martial arts, I highly doubt we’ll see a departure from 1 v 1 combat animations.
    probably for generals and heroes agents only. as they are a single unit

    Quote Originally Posted by Goots View Post
    I'm not a china hater.. if it's historic and not fantasy.. then i'm in.. someone in a previous post added some unit card designs.. not sure if they're part of the game or he just created them cuz he was bored..lol.. but those were great had me intrigued.. If i even sniff a dragon somewhere ...I'm out..lol
    rotk have no dragons, but you will get units that is not real I am sure but not monster types.
    fear is helluva drug
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    “The only rule that ever made sense to me I learned from a history, not an economics, professor at Wharton. "Fear," he used to say, "fear is the most valuable commodity in the universe." That blew me away. "Turn on the TV," he'd say. "What are you seeing? People selling their products? No. People selling the fear of you having to live without their products." freakin' A, was he right. Fear of aging, fear of loneliness, fear of poverty, fear of failure. Fear is the most basic emotion we have. Fear is primal. Fear sells.” WWZ

    Have you had your daily dose of fear yet? craziii
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  15. #95

    Default Re: New Historical total war era announcement coming on Thursday!

    Quote Originally Posted by craziii View Post
    rotk have no dragons, but you will get units that is not real I am sure but not monster types.
    I've read Romance of the Three Kingdoms and there wasn't any fictional elements in warfare that the novel depicted. So I doubt we will get unrealistic units.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; January 12, 2018 at 08:25 AM. Reason: Continuity.

  16. #96

    Default Re: New Historical total war era announcement coming on Thursday!

    Quote Originally Posted by katsusand View Post
    I've read Romance of the Three Kingdoms and there wasn't any fictional elements in warfare that the novel depicted. So I doubt we will get unrealistic units.
    .
    Zhuge Liang summoning the winds at Chi Bi?

    There are others but this was the first to come to mind

  17. #97

    Default Re: New Historical total war era announcement coming on Thursday!

    Quote Originally Posted by ggsimmonds View Post
    Zhuge Liang summoning the winds at Chi Bi?

    There are others but this was the first to come to mind
    In the novel, he was pretending to be summoning the wind. When in fact he was predicting the weather.

  18. #98

    Default Re: New Historical total war era announcement coming on Thursday!

    China has so much interesting history to cover, and CA just had to pick the most fantasized, internal, and boring conflict imaginable.

    CA isn't interested in innovating anymore, they picked a conflict "The Romance of the Three Kingdoms", which isn't even historically accurate in a lot of ways, that allows them to mirror Warhammer. More fantasy fighting rather than realism, more single units beating down on mass blocks, more of the same spear emphasis fighting.

    Victoria: Total War set from 1830-1920 would have been an amazing time to show the East. Russo-Japanese War. Sino-Japanese War. Boxer Rebellions. Opium Wars. So much exciting fun history, but instead... fantasy.

  19. #99

    Default Re: New Historical total war era announcement coming on Thursday!

    Let's stop comparing Romance of the Three Kingdoms to Warhammer, please?

    One is a romanticized retelling of historical events and the other is literal fantasy.

  20. #100

    Default Re: New Historical total war era announcement coming on Thursday!

    Quote Originally Posted by katsusand View Post
    Let's stop comparing Romance of the Three Kingdoms to Warhammer, please?

    One is a romanticized retelling of historical events and the other is literal fantasy.
    One is Western Fantasy, the other Eastern Fantasy. Both are fantasy. It shouldn't offend you that a single warrior couldn't really fight off hordes of soldiers as portrayed in the books and Dynasty Warriors.

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