New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

[druchii7]

Not as bad as I expected but by far not good enough. Why don't the spearmen defend before the charge? Why do soldiers climb like they were anime characters?

The palette is beautiful, but very cartoonish. The settlement is enormous but mechanics seen to be dumbed down. Clashes look cinematic but not realistic, arrows hitting the superhero "melt" into a fireball...

So far, to me it's a beautiful piece of nonsense. And the animations of the yellow infantry... At least there were no fireballs

[zoner16]

Watched it a few more times for effect. Some more thoughts:

1. Dueling animations looked great. A lot less superhuman than I was anticipating.
2. Horse riding animations look excellent as well.
3. All other animations are either functional or terrible. I get that this is pre-alpha, but if you're going to show it off at E3, I'm going to call it out. Way too man of the units animate like robots in combat.
4. Also, if you want to have Lu Bu send a guy flying, sure. If you want a cavalry charge to send a guy flying, ok. If you want a random spearman to send a guy flying, we gotta talk.
5. In a similar vein, flaming arrows turning into a shower of sparks when they hit a wall is fine, and maybe if they hit a shield, but they shouldn't do it when killing a guy.
6. I like the new tooltip boxes. Much easier to read.
7. I do not like the new icons. They're small, have non-immersive design, and don't have faction colors.
8. Banners are fantastic.
9. Unit bar at the bottom is well laid out.
10. Minimap doesn't show anything. No topography, too far zoomed out, and only shows generals.

I'll think of more stuff as I ruminate. They have time to fix a lot of this. Most of it is asset stuff that may or may not be placeholders (those animations have to be, I swear I can see the frame skips).

[Huberto]

Woah, this is definitely not my cup of tea. Super gamey. Feeling the same sense of shame and embarassment I felt playing warhammer. Time for a new hobby!

[zoner16]

Woah, this is definitely not my cup of tea. Super gamey. Feeling the same sense of shame and embarassment I felt playing warhammer. Time for a new hobby!

Good luck to you then.

[Roma_Victrix]

That looks very cool tbh. And the butchering of the names continues lol. I'll probably play it with Chinese voiceover.

"Our reinforcements are led by Jay-How-Dune."

Cao Cao's horse has the wrong armour. Looking at it again a lot of this armour looks like fake Dynasty Warriors stuff. Also why is Cao Cao wearing a hat and court robes? Cao Cao was a cavalry general and wore armour.

Yeah, not all armor in this game is authentically Eastern Han in appearance, but then again, as per our discussion about weapons, neither are some of the swords (which look like Warring States Period ones) and of course Guan Yu has his anachronistic guandao pole weapon in other clips/promotional pics of the game. The Chinese traction trebuchets also look way too overpowered and are knocking down stone walls way too easily. This is almost a thousand years before the invention of the counterweight trebuchet in the Mediterranean world, after all (which spread to China during the Southern Song period, used by the Mongol Yuan dynasty to devastating effect, in an age when Chinese gunpowder weaponry was still in its infancy). The graphics look pretty damn cool, though, and the architecture looks alright, aside from the fact that those walls would perhaps only have facing stones and would be mostly rammed earth (like most surviving fortification ruins of the Han period).

Watched it a few more times for effect. Some more thoughts:

*Dueling animations looked great. A lot less superhuman than I was anticipating.

The fighting techniques looked okay, I suppose, but it's stupidly unrealistic for two commanders to be fighting each other in complete isolation, in some quiet courtyard with no one around them. I could understand if duels happened when there was a sudden ambush and they were forced to lock horns right there on the spot, but otherwise this looks goofy. It's way too much like Dynasty Warriors in that regard. The army around you should still be seen and actually doing things like winning or losing the fight. Thank God they have a "Classical" mode and option where duels are torn out of the game, because this is just bad no matter how you slice it. Well, bad from the perspective of someone who expects realism in a historical title.

[Huberto]

It's way too much like Dynasty Warriors in that regard.... because this is just bad no matter how you slice it. Well, bad from the perspective of someone who expects realism in a historical title.

Yup this is exactly what I'm talking about. It feels like the game got hijacked by a guy in a suit who elbowed the dev team out of the way to cut and paste in a dynasty warriors' duel. "It's a fighting game, ammirite?" he says, standing back and admiring the hackery.

[saxdude]

It could just be that it's an E3 trailer that want's to showcase duels.

[SturmChurro]

The majority of the coverage for the game is definitely going to be revolving around the "EPIC" dueling! and hero fighting, because it will draw a larger audience, than being historically authentic. It's very stylized.

[zoner16]

The fighting techniques looked okay, I suppose, but it's stupidly unrealistic for two commanders to be fighting each other in complete isolation, in some quiet courtyard with no one around them. I could understand if duels happened when there was a sudden ambush and they were forced to lock horns right there on the spot, but otherwise this looks goofy. It's way too much like Dynasty Warriors in that regard. The army around you should still be seen and actually doing things like winning or losing the fight. Thank God they have a "Classical" mode and option where duels are torn out of the game, because this is just bad no matter how you slice it. Well, bad from the perspective of someone who expects realism in a historical title.

I do hope there are some limits on how you can duel. Having your general charge all the way across the map to lay the smackdown on the enemy commander, ignoring an entire cavalcade of chaos in between would be too much for me even when I'm in a Wushu mood. Also, I don't want to have to watch every duel, which, given the UI, doesn't look like I have to.

There were "duels" that happened historically though, which is something I want to recreate with the Classic mode bodyguard units. A lot of frontline generals would attack people they could recognize as commanders in the middle of battle because killing them would demoralize the enemy.

[captainkrunch]

Yup this is exactly what I'm talking about. It feels like the game got hijacked by a guy in a suit who elbowed the dev team out of the way to cut and paste in a dynasty warriors' duel. "It's a fighting game, ammirite?" he says, standing back and admiring the hackery.

As we know, among reasonable folk anyone who does something I dislike is a hack.

[Theramines]

Is it just me or does it look kind of dated?

Not just you. It looked not only dated, but really unappealing from a gameplay point of view. Why bother building walls if they're so easily destroyed and vaulted over? Combat had the usual suicidal charging and moshpits with OP cavalry (who also jump like grasshoppers?!). The units were so tiny with only 160 men. It looked horribly like a Napoloen or Empire era siege assault.

I'm kind of impressed with the Romance/Classic modes solution to the fantasy/authentic divide, but there is no indication that this game offers anything new to historically inclined players who have already played Shogun2/R2/Attila.

I'm really uncomfortable about being so negative, but it looked terrible. I was gobsmacked. Is that how alpha footage is supposed to look? I don't recall other pre-release footage looking so bad, or am I wearing rose-tinted specs?

[Garensterz]

Looks like the game still has a huge optimization problem just as much as Attila. I guess any modern GPU or CPU out there cant still run this game smoothly. But apart from that, everything is going great so far. Animations, battles, graphics, made me hyped a bit. Now lets just wait if the campaign/empire management is any good.

[zoner16]

Looks like the game still has a huge optimization problem just as much as Attila.

Based on what? I didn't see any noticeable slowdowns?

EDIT: Renders from the trailers. Mostly of Cao Cao, Liu Bei, Guan Yu, and Zhang Fei, but there are some close up looks at the standard foot soldier gear as well -

https://imgur.com/a/e0c9PDE#uEHskHd

[Evan MF]

Looks like another devolution into more arcadey, gamey crap gameplay from CA.

[saxdude]

@saxdude, Aztec dinosaurs... do you play MTG or something?

https://totalwarwarhammer.gamepedia....a=1&i10c.dv=14

[Roma_Victrix]

Yup this is exactly what I'm talking about. It feels like the game got hijacked by a guy in a suit who elbowed the dev team out of the way to cut and paste in a dynasty warriors' duel. "It's a fighting game, ammirite?" he says, standing back and admiring the hackery.

Lol. Nice.

Aside from it being completely unrealistic to have such duels, TW historical games are all about commanding armies and tactically moving large bodies of troops to attack and defend against enemy forces (complemented by strategically managing one's empire on the campaign map). Duels have never been a part of that and, historically, they don't make much sense aside from the incredibly rare instances where they occurred (like that Roman guy in the 4th century BC allegedly dueling against a big scary naked Celt wearing a torc, lol...in Chinese history they are about as rare as those in the West). Ultimately, I want to play a historical title. The duel system they have implemented here almost makes it look like you're playing Dynasty Warriors in single combat mode, if not Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter. That seems pretty schizophrenic to me. Seems to me like they couldn't even decide what type of game we're playing here. It's just a mishmash of whatever.

[Bigbossbalrog]

Looks ing awesome. If you don't like the direction, that's just too bad I guess . Simple as that. Because CA is catering to a certain audience. And their going to be rewarded for it.

[zoner16]

Aside from it being completely unrealistic to have such duels, TW historical games are all about commanding armies and tactically moving large bodies of troops to attack and defend against enemy forces (complemented by strategically managing one's empire on the campaign map). Duels have never been a part of that and, historically, they don't make much sense aside from the incredibly rare instances where they occurred (like that Roman guy in the 4th century BC allegedly dueling against a big scary naked Celt wearing a torc, lol...in Chinese history they are about as rare as those in the West). Ultimately, I want to play a historical title. The duel system they have implemented here almost makes it look like you're playing Dynasty Warriors in single combat mode, if not Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter. That seems pretty schizophrenic to me. Seems to me like they couldn't even decide what type of game we're playing here. It's just a mishmash of whatever.

Not going to comment on the execution of the actual mechanic until I see more of it (though I wont lie that the fight in the video got my blood pumping), but if you're going to make a Romance of the Three Kingdoms game, duels are pretty much paramount. Every battle is punctuated by them, usually starting, and sometimes ending with one or a series of them then cutting away to the strategists are busy making crazy formations and pulling off eight step plans to make the enemy army get buried under a mountain.

They've been pretty upfront about this being a fiction and historical game in the same package, emphasized by the two modes. If the historical mode isn't up to par, you can crucify them them for that, but there's no sense in complaining about the historicity of the mode that is specifically not drawing from history.

[Roma_Victrix]

Looks ing awesome. If you don't like the direction, that's just too bad I guess . Simple as that. Because CA is catering to a certain audience. And their going to be rewarded for it.

Yeah, but you're completely incorrect about the target audience. It's clearly not regular adults buying games to play them. It's middle-aged mothers and soccer moms buying them for their 12-year-old pimple-faced sons who regularly play fantasy, failed history class, and think Lu Bu dueling Xiahou Dun looks super cool and totally lit, bro. I mean, are you even woke, Brosef Stalin? Sounds to me like you need to get educated on what's going on, dude.

They've been pretty upfront about this being a fiction and historical game in the same package, emphasized by the two modes. If the historical mode isn't up to par, you can crucify them them for that, but there's no sense in complaining about the historicity of the mode that is specifically not drawing from history.

As I said before, thank God for the "Classical" mode of the game. I'm still going to comment on how non-historical and retarded dueling is, though. I mean, common sense should prevail here: if you're commanding an army and that is your responsibility, why would you and the enemy commander be seeking each other out in some quiet courtyard away from the major combat, that you should be supervising?

[SturmChurro]

Not just you. It looked not only dated, but really unappealing from a gameplay point of view. Why bother building walls if they're so easily destroyed and vaulted over? Combat had the usual suicidal charging and moshpits with OP cavalry (who also jump like grasshoppers?!). The units were so tiny with only 160 men. It looked horribly like a Napoloen or Empire era siege assault.

I'm kind of impressed with the Romance/Classic modes solution to the fantasy/authentic divide, but there is no indication that this game offers anything new to historically inclined players who have already played Shogun2/R2/Attila.

I'm really uncomfortable about being so negative, but it looked terrible. I was gobsmacked. Is that how alpha footage is supposed to look? I don't recall other pre-release footage looking so bad, or am I wearing rose-tinted specs?

When I saw it I thought it was like a SHOGUN 2 mod or something. I actually bet a mod in this era would be more authentic though! And the generals taunting eachother was extremely cringy. As someone said it was like a cartoon..

How come everybody in East Asia are expert climbers?