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Thread: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

  1. #281

    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by SinisterOmen View Post
    I think it's also the fact that they didn't want to do another game based on Europe, so China was a good choice for "cooling down" Europe a little bit.
    I really don't know, was Shogun for instance intended to market heavily in Japan? I suppose that was also the idea, but I certainly did enjoy it.

    Going back to game features, I hope they rework and invest a lot more on diplomacy. I think most people who play the campaign in TW games spend at least 80% of the time on the campaign map doing the Empire management side, and only 20% fighting battles.
    I hope they bring back things like gifting or trading regions/settlements. Having a better alliance system, forcing allies to actually help each other one way or another: manpower, money, etc. Otherwise the alliance means nothing. Better trade, perhaps making resources like iron essential for the war effort (no iron = no armor or weapons).
    And I really hope although I doubt they'll do it, for the old population system to come back.
    Was Shogun 1 even sold in Japan? It was for Microsoft PC and I don't think there is a Japanese language option for it.

  2. #282
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Maybe I should add that I don't think a Total War game can accurately portray the mostly operational style of warfare that was fought in this time period. While large armies could range from 100,000 to 200,000 men most engagements were fought by smaller detachments. For example the battles in the Yellow Turban Revolt were mostly maneuvers, ambushes and sieges. Yingchuan county, in Yu province, was taken by the Yellow Turbans after which Huangfu Song placed it under siege and the actual fighting was a series of skirmishes and only a few pitched battles.

    Likewise the Battle of Guandu was a series of engagements with men numbering in the tens of thousands (detachments of 5,000-20,000) along various fortified positions on the Yellow River, then Cao Cao withdrawing to Guandu and being besieged by Yuan Shao, a double sortie by Cao Cao attacked Yuan Shao's siege lines and maneuvered behind Yuan Shao's lines to destroy the latter's supply base at Wuchao. Cao Cao's forces have been estimated to number anywhere from 10,000 to 100,000 where as better estimations of Yuan Shao's army is anywhere from 60,000 to 200,000 (high estimates being up to 1 million men ).

    In the famed Red Cliff campaign this was actually a massive operation along the Yangtze River. Zhou Yu was given 30,000 to 50,000 men and his fleet and Liu Bei with 20,000 men and his fleet opposed Cao Cao across the river in Jing province. Cao Cao for his part is said to have 200,000 to 250,000 men (though claims of 800,000 exist). Sun Quan personally led 50,000 men to besiege Hefei in Yu province. Hefei was defended by a few thousand men and received only about 1,000 men as reinforcements. Sun Quan was forced to give up the siege of Hefei for logistical reasons although his officer Zhou Yu had already defeated Cao Cao in Jing and forced him to retreat. Zhou Yu and Liu Bei then besieged Jiangling and Cao Ren's garrison had to be reinforced (allegedly Cao Ren had over 100,000 men by then).

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  3. #283
    SinisterOmen's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by Intranetusa View Post
    Was Shogun 1 even sold in Japan? It was for Microsoft PC and I don't think there is a Japanese language option for it.
    I don't even know if it was Shogun 1 or Rome 1 the very first TW game (too lazy to even google it lol).
    I was wondering more on the lines of Shogun 2 though, a more recent title. Was that one intended to market in Japan? I don't know really.

    I was basically wondering because if 3K is supposed to market in China or whole Asia in general, perhaps Shogun games (or at least the second) was also somewhat intended to market in Japan.

  4. #284
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by SinisterOmen View Post
    I don't even know if it was Shogun 1 or Rome 1 the very first TW game (too lazy to even google it lol).
    I was wondering more on the lines of Shogun 2 though, a more recent title. Was that one intended to market in Japan? I don't know really.

    I was basically wondering because if 3K is supposed to market in China or whole Asia in general, perhaps Shogun games (or at least the second) was also somewhat intended to market in Japan.
    The Japanese market is a fair deal smaller than the Chinese one, I'd say the popularity of Japan in "the West" was a bigger reason for CA but that's just my assumption. For this new one I'd say the Asian market is definitely one CA aims at as the story is less well-known in Western countries but from what I've heard it's huge in East Asia. Now the entire backstory of Shogun 2 is also not very well known but a lot of people like Samurai and Ninjas.

  5. #285
    caratacus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by SinisterOmen View Post
    I don't even know if it was Shogun 1 or Rome 1 the very first TW game (too lazy to even google it lol).
    I was wondering more on the lines of Shogun 2 though, a more recent title. Was that one intended to market in Japan? I don't know really.

    I was basically wondering because if 3K is supposed to market in China or whole Asia in general, perhaps Shogun games (or at least the second) was also somewhat intended to market in Japan.
    The first Shogun was a huge hit for Creative Assembly, it was different than anything else at the time and was extremely popular throughout the games market. Shogun 2 was a natural re-visitation to the subject of the earlier game. Samurai are recognizable aspect of Japanese history even though many in the West probably know very little about Japanese history. Any game based on Samurai warriors would have widespread appeal outside of Japan. Chinese history however is somewhat less known about outside of China, especially when it comes to warfare. The only widely known image of an ancient Chinese soldier would probably be the Terracotta Warriors. And although people in the West are familiar with the Great Wall, they know very little of the men who patrolled along it. A game with Ancient Greeks, Romans, Vikings, Knights and Samurai on the front cover would sell a game anywhere. One with a Chinese soldier of the Ming Dynasty would not to the same extent. Therefore sales inside China, especially for something as popular as the Three Kingdoms there, is significantly more important because it won’t have the same grab factor in the West. Although with a title as well known and established as Total War, this might not be the biggest factor. Certainly 5 years ago this would be perceived as a bit of a risk.

    Another important difference is that the Japanese market in PC games is well developed and integrated into the global market. Many video games originate in Japan. Super Mario Bros Sonic the Hedgehog just to them two. China is altogether different, video games consoles from which many PC games came from, were banned in China. China's PC game market is only now beginning to expand and has potential to be extremely lucrative but may not reflect entirely the PC games market outside of China. What's more, the possibility of Chinese investment in games companies is a huge incentive to focus on China. Much like how Creative Assembly has expanded by acquisition by a Japanese company after the success of Shogun.

    I think for these reasons, a lot more consideration will be given on marketing TW Three Kingdoms in China than Shogun was in Japan back in 2000, not just for its larger demographics. Whilst the choice of Three Kingdoms fits well into achieving that objective;

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Video games industry in China and cross cultural gaming
    http://www.inaglobal.fr/en/jeu-video...al-gaming-8446

    "Indeed, this increase of locally produced games (in China) is also grounded in the specificity of Chinese culture. Thomas Price stresses that the “endless sea of made-in-China Three Kingdoms games”, is hard to avoid. The historical period (CE 220–280), has been greatly romanticized in the cultures of China, Japan, Korea, and Vietnam. It has been celebrated and popularized in operas, folk stories, novels and in more recent times, films, television, and video games. The best known of these is Luo Guanzhong's “Romance of the Three Kingdoms”, a Ming dynasty historical novel based on events in the Three Kingdoms period detailing a fictionalized account of the real historical Three Kingdoms period. The movie shot in 2008 by John Woo became the top selling success of the Chinese box office in the history of Chinese cinema.

    Creative Assembly will be hoping that TWTK will provide the same commercial boost the earlier Shogun game did. But this time by adapting their game to build upon the long established popularity of the Three Kingdoms throughout SE Asia.
    Last edited by caratacus; January 20, 2018 at 04:23 PM.

  6. #286
    NorseThing's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    China doesn't have 1 billion gamers, much less PC gamers. Most of the people who play games in China do so in cafes not on private consoles or computers. I don't know what developing the software has to do with marketing a game in China. Mind giving details as to your point of view.

    The point of my comments was that I was saying exactly that we cannot know what China's opinion will be since there are so many risks with regards to dealing in China. There is no predictability for business models.

    I am asserting that a large part of CA's motivation was marketing in Asia. While there is no Chinese trailer out yet I think that either way it would be naive to assume that it was not factored into their reasoning.
    I agree with you, but out of complete western ignorance! I have no knowledge on what game systems people in China play or on what type of machines they actually use for there game entertainment. I think there are quite a few of us westerners that do not know what really goes on in China on a day to day basis. The only Chinese that I know are very Americanized and most are related to people in power and not ever close to the common folk of the nation. I do wish I knew more and I do understand the same goes for many in China about the West as well. It is so easy to think we know, when in fact we do not know enough.

  7. #287
    Huberto's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by caratacus View Post
    Hopefully the historical aspect of this time will be depicted more for the first time, as it should be.
    Going back to past statements about the next historical title, before 3K was announced, we have conflicting signals coming from CA, in addition to the trailer which wasn't very historical and featured elaborate martial arts style combat.

    This update from several months ago is reminiscent of what was shown in the trailer:

    We’ve been in the mocap studio a lot recently, it’s in a big warehouse here in Horsham, just a short walk from our studio. A good portion of the team have been down there, because our stunt men are drawing quite a crowd with what they’re doing. We always work with professionals, but this time around we’re taking a much more ambitious approach to mocap than we have with previous historical total war games. We invested extra time, effort, and external experts to get the maximum impact. I’m sure fans will be impressed when they see these fully realised animations in the actual game.
    While this from late 2016 sounds much different:

    Also, we have now partnered with our first historical advisor, pre-eminent in his field and already bringing that world-leading expertise to bear on our designs and extensive research so far
    We need to hear more about this individual.

  8. #288

    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Hopefully they're going back to how units interact in Shogun 2.


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  9. #289

    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by ptoss1 View Post
    Hopefully they're going back to how units interact in Shogun 2.
    Oh god no
    It will mess up any semblance of formation

  10. #290

    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by katsusand View Post
    Oh god no
    It will mess up any semblance of formation
    Hell yes to this. the stupid mocap forced unit interaction of the previous historical titles. They should get a clue from Med 2 and instead make them only happen when a unit successfully hits another in a certain way to make them initiate the animation while still keeping the rest of the unit in cohesion without turning them into the fidgeting mess we see just from the trailer of TOB.

  11. #291

    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    LOL, Good to see then admins back to correcting/purging dissenting opinions. Wouldn't want to nix the hype for CA's next installment. Exuberant praise is fine, but no thought crimes here.

    This site is a joke. Has been for quite some time.
    Last edited by Gigantus; January 23, 2018 at 02:57 AM. Reason: way too personal critisicm\off topic
    Shogun 2, no thanks I will stick with Kingdoms SS.

  12. #292

    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    So has there been nothing new yet coming out about this game?

  13. #293
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by NorseThing View Post
    I agree with you, but out of complete western ignorance! I have no knowledge on what game systems people in China play or on what type of machines they actually use for there game entertainment. I think there are quite a few of us westerners that do not know what really goes on in China on a day to day basis. The only Chinese that I know are very Americanized and most are related to people in power and not ever close to the common folk of the nation. I do wish I knew more and I do understand the same goes for many in China about the West as well. It is so easy to think we know, when in fact we do not know enough.
    Consoles are not that popular in China. People who can afford them do have the Playstation, XBox and Nintendo. However until 2015 consoles were actually banned in China. In addition to that piracy and homegrown consoles, basically a knockoff, are prevalent in the Chinese market. On top of that the government censors or bans games for various reasons. In China PC gaming has become the alternative but most people do not own a gaming computer so they go to cafes to play things like DOTA2 or League of Legends. Mobile games and VR have also become a cheaper alternative in China.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  14. #294

    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    China, hmm doesn't appeal to me. I will wait for release and reviews to see if it's a fun and well made game with interesting mechanics and a good battle engine - then I'll pick it up.

  15. #295

    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    So, apparently some Chinese fans visited CA's headquarters taking a glance on the development of the game. He is obviously not allowed to reveal the juiciest information, but his account is still interesting:
    Quote Originally Posted by English translation of the original post
    On January 11th, I was invited to CA headquarters for a tour and was able to some interview CA employees.
    We can't talk about the vast majority of the stuff we saw at CA.
    Everything here will be stuff CA has already announced or made available.
    Total War: Three Kingdoms has been in the works for quite some time now, maybe two years, and most of the stuff we saw at CA was concept art. I can say that personally it far exceeds my expectations and will probably once it launches as well.
    One of the major concerns the Chinese community has brought up is whether or not a foreign company can faithfully depict Chinese characters faithfully to the culture and history. On this respect, I think we can rest easy. Not only has CA done their homework, they also have Chinese employees working on character design.
    Characters, units, and UI are all stylistically Chinese. Original content also contains Chinese elements.
    The game is based on Romance of the Three Kingdoms (literature) and not Records of the Three Kingdoms or RotTK (game). So they've used tv series like the 1994 version of Three Kingdoms and Red Cliff as reference material.
    Most of the character designs were done by that Chinese girl in the middle of the picture. She's holding a copy of Jiazhou Fuyuan in her hands, which basically means Armor Restoration.
    Even though they've used pop media as reference material, the game is still a historical TW at its core. CA takes their history very seriously (LMFAO). You won't find Zhuge Liang firing fireballs from a chariot.
    We asked the Three Kingdoms lady some popular community questions, and from the answers we've heard up until now, there's nothing to really worry about.
    I think that this quote basically confirms the majority of the early speculations about the game. He's rather adamant that the game will be primarily based on literal and not historical sources, on the Romance instead of the Records of the Three Kingdoms. However, he clarifies that, despite any imaginary elements, the Three Kingdoms will not reach Warhammer's level of fantasy, in terms of defying natural laws. In my opinion, CA probably intends to adopt a moderate approach, where the protagonists will be unrealistically strong and the architectural environment, as well as military equipment, will not strictly reflect the archeological reality (not a big deal presumably, because not many of the customers are familiarised with Chinese history, in comparison to Rome or Medieval Europe), but physics will be respected.

    Secondly, only his visit and completely positive comments about the representation of Chinese culture indicate that the huge market of China will be one of the main targets of Creative Assembly. It's seems like a reasonable strategy, because the Chinese audience and the popularity of the Three Kingdoms in the West (due to popular culture, such as cinema and video-gaming) will ensure the game's financial success. That being said, I noticed one minor contradiction between his claims and those of previous sources. He says that 3K has been under development for two years, but a former CA employee had stated that the projected essentially existed only on paper until a couple of months (check the comments below the video). However, Darren also agrees that the idea existed for many years, so either the Chinese visitor or the responding CA employee meant with the "2-years" remark the conception of the project, not the actual beginning of its creation.

  16. #296

    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    . He says that 3K has been under development for two years, but a former CA employee had stated that the projected essentially existed only on paper until a couple of months (check the comments below the video). However, Darren also agrees that the idea existed for many years, so either the Chinese visitor or the responding CA employee meant with the "2-years" remark the conception of the project, not the actual beginning of its creation.
    If the development is less than 2 years and it's already releasing 2018 then we might be getting another garbage launch like Rome 2.

  17. #297

    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Official Post by CA, 11-1-2018

    Total War: THREE KINGDOMS is the next major historical Total War game
    https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-...e-kingdoms-faq

    Fan's post officially approved by CA, a few days later

    CA is highly confidential about the new game and we can only tell what we are allowed to tell and all stuff here is published with CA's agreement.

    Since the game will be based on novel but not historical record, CA has referenced lots of old Chinese TV shows and films (e.g. Three Kingdoms in 1994, Red Clif by John Woo. I don't need to explain a lot since you've watched the trailer.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/7soopg/translation_chinese_total_war_community_member/





    So CA goes the immoral and unmanly way of false advertisement and lying ... again ...





    That's all I needed to know to decide about buying it. I've had enough of that BS with Rome 2, so I'll pass this time. I gave them the benefit of the doubt back in Rome 2's days, but now being 5 years older and wiser, I have zero tolerance for BS.

    "Making the same mistake twice is not the deed of a wise man." ~ Menander

    And as they say: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

    I just have one serious question though: why the hell is false advertising not illegal concerning the gaming industry? Why the hell is this allowed? Why do we let companies get away with disrespecting us in such a vulgar way?
    Last edited by perifanosEllinas; January 25, 2018 at 01:45 PM.

  18. #298

    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by perifanosEllinas View Post
    Official Post by CA, 11-1-2018
    https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-...e-kingdoms-faq
    Fan's post officially approved by CA, a few days later
    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/co...munity_member/
    So CA goes the immoral and unmanly way of false advertisement and lying ... again ...
    That's all I needed to know to decide about buying it. I've had enough of that BS with Rome 2, so I'll pass this time. I gave them the benefit of the doubt back in Rome 2's days, but now being 5 years older and wiser, I have zero tolerance for BS.
    "Making the same mistake twice is not the deed of a wise man." ~ Menander
    And as they say: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
    I just have one serious question though: why the hell is false advertising not illegal concerning the gaming industry? Why the hell is this allowed? Why do we let companies get away with disrespecting us in such a vulgar way?
    Because a reddit poster said so?

    By the way, what's wrong with the game making references to the novel? Pretty much all Total War games to date had non-historical elements or stories one way or the other. It's still historical for all intents and purposes.
    The Armenian Issue

  19. #299

    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    Because a reddit poster said so?
    Their trailer said so too.

    By the way, what's wrong with the game making references to the novel?
    This is advertised as a historical game. Fictional events, fictional characters, fictional weapon designs of magic weapons and all the other stuff from a fantasy novel have no place in a historical game. Plus, if it has any fictional elements then it's by definition a historical fiction game, not a historical game, so this is false advertisement. They're lying to us. And I will also agree with Huberto, they are disrespecting history too.

    Pretty much all Total War games to date had non-historical elements or stories one way or the other.
    Oh really? Name one fictional element in Rome 1 or Rome 2.

    It's still historical for all intents and purposes.
    No, it isn't. It's historical fiction. Unless it has magic too. Then it's fantasy.

  20. #300

    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by perifanosEllinas View Post
    Oh really? Name one fictional element in Rome 1 or Rome 2.
    2000 year anachronistic Egyptians...every unit is wrong. Stereotypes of Celts, Germans, etc.
    Screaming battalions of women. Battalions of half naked head hurlers. Spanish infantry with bull helmets. Naked German berserkers.
    Rome split into Julli/Brutii/Scipii. Greek city states depicted as a unified empire. Red carpet wearing no armor Spartans. Hoplites fighting in a Macedonian sarissa phalanx. Macedonian silver shields depicted as a sarissa. Hollywood stereotyped Roman legions. Roman ninjas. Gladiator Battalions. Elite Urban Cohort units (who were really just firefighters). etc
    Last edited by Intranetusa; January 25, 2018 at 09:34 PM.

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