New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

[Mhaedros]

I honestly didn't think I would be that into 3k due to the same reasons, but watching the Three Kingdoms 2010 tv show (it's Game of Thrones but honestly better in some ways) the winter before release persuaded me to give the game a go; it was very much worth the time investment, even though it's like 95 episodes

[Huberto]

3K compares very very favorably to Shogun 2 having recently played a S2 campaign. The CAI in Shogun 2 is very predictable, like there's a script for your new neighbor to declare war after you expand. It gets predictable. In 3K there's much more of a game within a game in terms of faction and leader relationships. I just play records mode and in many ways it is the best TW campaign experience to date.

What I'd really like to have this year is a stand alone expansion set in a different era (instead of TW:Troy superheroes or this episodic 3k DLC). Playing the underappreciated 8 princes campaign shows how much fun China could be as a historical setting.

[legate]

3K is an excellent game overall. If there was a mod to replace the cartoony death rolls and soldiers flying through the air when hit by arrows or a cavalry charge then that would be grand

3K compares very very favorably to Shogun 2 having recently played a S2 campaign. The CAI in Shogun 2 is very predictable, like there's a script for your new neighbor to declare war after you expand. It gets predictable. In 3K there's much more of a game within a game in terms of faction and leader relationships. I just play records mode and in many ways it is the best TW campaign experience to date.

What I'd really like to have this year is a stand alone expansion set in a different era (instead of TW:Troy superheroes or this episodic 3k DLC). Playing the underappreciated 8 princes campaign shows how much fun China could be as a historical setting.

Yep, so much room for expansion. Warring States period. War of the Heavenly Horses. Campaigns against the Xiongnu. Expansion into Korea.

[Daruwind]

New Patchnotes
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-...-1-5-3-hotfix/

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Total War: THREE KINGDOMS Patch 1.5.3 Hotfix

Total War: THREE KINGDOMS

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Kate Fanthorpe
June 10 2020

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Languages

• English
• Simplified Chinese
• Korean

English

The 1.5.3 hotfix for Total War: THREE KINGDOMS is now live in beta access and addresses a few key bugs we’ve seen reported by the community.
In order to opt in to the 1.5.3 patch beta:

• Right-click on Total War: THREE KINGDOMS in your Steam library
• Click Properties and click the Betas tab
• In the drop-down menu, select the 5.3 option
• Close the window and your build will automatically update to 1.5.3

Before we dive into the fixes in 1.5.3, we’d also like to draw your attention to some issues that we are aware of and will be addressing in future patches. Rest assured we are always reading your reports and queries and they are instrumental in helping us make this game the very best it can be.
Some future fixes include:

• Fix for issue where Yellow Turban characters are being recruited by non-Yellow Turban factions and vice versa

• Fix for issues caused by using Grant Independence as Yellow Turban factions – this option will be removed for those factions
• Fix for cavalry units added in A World Betrayed being unable to dismount
• Fix for armies being able to replenish on rivers in Double Time stance

The 1.5.3 patch addresses the following issues:

• Fixed issue that caused the game to stall when using the Demand Abdication diplomatic option. This stalling could also be seen sometimes when occupying settlements, and was caused by a character attribute update check being run too often (which has now corrected)
• Restored Liu Hong’s family estate income bonus to 200% again
• Fixed skills for the following characters that gave abilities but weren’t giving attribute bonuses:
  
  • He Jin
  • Liu Chong
  • Lu Zhi
  • Zhang Bao
  • Zhang Jue
  • Zhang Liang
  
  
• Corrected the following unit formation abilities that were slightly wrong in 1.5.2 – they now have Spear Wall instead of Shield Wall (Spears):
  
  • Fervent Defenders
  • Guardians of the Land
  • Ascetics of the Way
  
  
• Fixed issue where Sima Ai in Eight Princes did not have access to Zhanmajian Infantry or Imperial units

[Daruwind]

CA publish new blog post about developers state in July 2020:
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/dev-blog-july-2020/

Total War: THREE KINGDOMS

The Nanman are coming – in fact, they’re lined up to be our very next DLC release. We’re very excited, and we think this pack has a lot of great stuff in it that you’re really going to enjoy.

You’ve seen ‘Chapter Packs’ before, but this will be our first ‘Expansion Pack’ DLC for 3K, and it’s a large one.


First off, something that a lot of you have been asking for is coming – gate pass battles and settlements will be added to the campaign map helping to make core passes much more defensible (and some impassable shallows around Chang’an to stop the Yellow river being used to quickly take it).


We don’t want to give too much away yet, but we can also let you know that if you don’t want to buy the DLC there will still be a new Free-LC Lord for the Han, new options to stop characters dying from old age at the beginning of the campaign, and some UI changes that we think will make a big difference.


Plus there’ll be some things added that you’ll never forget…


Having said that, there is a minor issue that might bother some of you, so we want to get out ahead of it. Hulao pass is sort of in the wrong place. We know and we’re sorry, these things happen!


Hulao Pass is positioned North of Mount Song,and we have placed it there on the 3K map. The issue is that the mountain is in the wrong place. This was pointed out to us but at a place where fixing it would break all of our internal saves. Our focus is on making sure the upcoming release is as stable as it can be, and having to start over with getting saves to help us bug fix and balance the game came with too many risks.


This is something that we’re going to correct in a future update, so rest assured that we’re aware of it. That map update will come with the second ‘Expansion Pack’ DLC that will focus on building out the North of the map.

[PointOfViewGun]

So we'll definitely have some Mongol expansion later on. Nice.

[zoner16]

So there some interesting stuff to unpack here.

You’ve seen ‘Chapter Packs’ before, but this will be our first ‘Expansion Pack’ DLC for 3K, and it’s a large one.

The terminology is interesting. We haven't really had a content drop be called an "expansion pack" in a while. I think Fall of the Samurai was the last one to be called that (before its second rebranding). Everything else has fallen into a variety of other "packs," including culture, campaign, lord, and most recently chapter.

I think the main implication is that this particular pack is a combination of several things. The culture pack aspect is obvious, so the additional aspects are probably going to include some kind of unique campaign, either in the mini-campaign size or another start date. However, I wonder if the implication here is actually going to include an expansion of the map. The emptiness of the south has been noted as a problem previously, but it's also been pointed out that the territory of the Han stretched further south than where the current end of the map. This could provide the Nanman some leeway, since much of the southwest is currently occupied by purely Han factions and there's not much room to expand.

First off, something that a lot of you have been asking for is coming – gate pass battles and settlements will be added to the campaign map helping to make core passes much more defensible (and some impassable shallows around Chang’an to stop the Yellow river being used to quickly take it).

Well, we've been told this was coming for a while. Gate battles are a good start to adding battle variety, though I'm curious to what extent they're going to go with in terms of scale. Most "gates" are just fortresses that happen to sit in a mountain pass, and were therefore more limited in approach. It'd be good if this kind of battle could be expanded to adding fortresses in general, since city and minor settlement battles tend to sprawl a bit too much compared to their typical garrison size.

We don’t want to give too much away yet, but we can also let you know that if you don’t want to buy the DLC there will still be a new Free-LC Lord for the Han, new options to stop characters dying from old age at the beginning of the campaign, and some UI changes that we think will make a big difference.

I'm guessing the FLC lord will be either Shi Xie or Liu Zhang. My hope is for Shi Xie, but he might end up being packaged in the DLC instead, if CA chooses to instead characterize him as Sĩ Nhiếp and make him a non-Han or hybrid culture.

The extra options are good, and the UI changes have me intrigued. There's a lot that could be improved, but my earnest wish is for them to give an option to replace the bland red and green circles with the actual banners as unit indicators.

Plus there’ll be some things added that you’ll never forget…

Yes, elephants . Is it too much to ask for rhinos too?

Having said that, there is a minor issue that might bother some of you, so we want to get out ahead of it. Hulao pass is sort of in the wrong place. We know and we’re sorry, these things happen!


Hulao Pass is positioned North of Mount Song,and we have placed it there on the 3K map. The issue is that the mountain is in the wrong place. This was pointed out to us but at a place where fixing it would break all of our internal saves. Our focus is on making sure the upcoming release is as stable as it can be, and having to start over with getting saves to help us bug fix and balance the game came with too many risks.

So this is confirmation that they are changing the map itself. I'm curious to see what comes of this.

This is something that we’re going to correct in a future update, so rest assured that we’re aware of it. That map update will come with the second ‘Expansion Pack’ DLC that will focus on building out the North of the map.

I think this is supporting evidence of my earlier hypothesis that the "Expansion Packs" are expansions in terms of the map. It's good to know that the next one will be for the north, which currently ends at the Ordos loop and cuts out the northern steppe. That's obviously going to come with the inevitable Xianbei and Wuhuan cultures, but the Southern Xiongnu might come earlier as part of a smaller culture pack because their territory is technically already on the map.

TRAILER_STILL

Finally, there's this. The name "TRAILER_STILL" means that they've got a trailer in the works, which means this is likely almost ready. I'm guessing a drop date after everyone claims their free Troy copy on EGS.

As for the picture itself. They're going for the Romance Meng Huo getup, which isn't surprising, though I do appreciate that he doesn't appear to just be an ethnic Han model in cosplay like the current auxiliary units for the northerners and the Yue. Hopefully, this is extended to the rest of the faction and we get some good variety in the unit models.

[PointOfViewGun]

The terminology is interesting. We haven't really had a content drop be called an "expansion pack" in a while. I think Fall of the Samurai was the last one to be called that (before its second rebranding). Everything else has fallen into a variety of other "packs," including culture, campaign, lord, and most recently chapter.

I think the main implication is that this particular pack is a combination of several things. The culture pack aspect is obvious, so the additional aspects are probably going to include some kind of unique campaign, either in the mini-campaign size or another start date. However, I wonder if the implication here is actually going to include an expansion of the map. The emptiness of the south has been noted as a problem previously, but it's also been pointed out that the territory of the Han stretched further south than where the current end of the map. This could provide the Nanman some leeway, since much of the southwest is currently occupied by purely Han factions and there's not much room to expand.

Three Kingdoms had a variety of chapter packs. Yellow Turban Rebellion, Eight Princes, Mandate of Heaven and A World Betrayed are all chapter packs. The Last Roman and Age of Charlemagne as well for Atilla.

[zoner16]

Three Kingdoms had a variety of chapter packs. Yellow Turban Rebellion, Eight Princes, Mandate of Heaven and A World Betrayed are all chapter packs. The Last Roman and Age of Charlemagne as well for Atilla.

Yes, but they specifically separated this and said it wasn't a "chapter pack" but an "expansion pack."

The Last Roman and Age of Charlemagne are both called "campaign packs" on the store pages. I think the intent here is to signify something different.

[Daruwind]

The description and idea what we imagine under certain "pack" piece is evolving in time as well. Simply go back and check Empire/Napoleon with unit packs and campaign packs and in Shogun 2 we have now factions packs,unit packs and whole FotS which is basically standalone expansion...Saga now. With Rome/Attila we began slow movement from culture oriented packs into (sub)factions and especially into various Leaders (Legendary Lords) in Wh. With lord packs, faction packs and campaign packs at top

In my humble opinion there are now two major content ways. Lord packs/chapter packs...8,99/9,99 EU and then Campaign packs about 18,99. Which can contain minicampaign but can as well focus on characters and units..(check Wh1 vs Wh2 Campaign packs). I doubt we will see something more expensive (20-25 EU) as that is slowly rivaling Saga titles. Minicampaigns were not so popular so probably expansion of map. CA don´t like to physically expand the map but working with areas "off/around borders.." is possible (like Wood Elves in Wh1, recent addition into Darklands in ME Wh2 map..)

At lower map..Korea, North/West part as well as South/West could be easily populated...

[LordLurch]

Looks like a pretty big slice of new stuff. Interested to see how this plays out.

[Mhaedros]

Looking forward to this a lot, probably coming out sometime after Troy, so late August/early September..let the Nanman come

[Seether]

Nanman should have been in the vanilla release. CA on the nickel-and-dime bandwagon... I remember when games used to be pretty much complete when released and additional content, not cut content, was added via expansions. Or, since you bought the game, the new content added was free to improve the game and player experience. That's why gamer-friendly developers, like CDProjekt Red, garner infinitely more respect than Creative Assembly of the past 10 years.

Oh, and Hulao Pass wasn't even a defensive point during the Three Kingdoms era and no major battle (especially between Dong Zhuo and Coalition) took place in the area. CA devs need to stop playing Dynasty Warriors and read a damn book.

[PointOfViewGun]

Nanman should have been in the vanilla release. CA on the nickel-and-dime bandwagon... I remember when games used to be pretty much complete when released and additional content, not cut content, was added via expansions. Or, since you bought the game, the new content added was free to improve the game and player experience. That's why gamer-friendly developers, like CDProjekt Red, garner infinitely more respect than Creative Assembly of the past 10 years.

Oh, and Hulao Pass wasn't even a defensive point during the Three Kingdoms era and no major battle (especially between Dong Zhuo and Coalition) took place in the area. CA devs need to stop playing Dynasty Warriors and read a damn book.

Why was Nanman supposed to be in the vanilla release?

[Seether]

Why was Nanman supposed to be in the vanilla release?

Why was Cao Cao? Same answer.

[PointOfViewGun]

Why was Cao Cao? Same answer.

Whats the answer to that too?

[Seether]

They played an important role and influenced regional events, both political and military, through the majority of the Later Han and early Three Kingdoms period. It’s like having Medieval II and not including Byzantium - instead putting them behind a paywall. I know releasing incomplete games to sell cut content (that should have been in at release) as DLC is the norm for many developers, like CA, but it is highly anti-consumer and, quite frankly, a grossly disgusting practice.

[PointOfViewGun]

They played an important role and influenced regional events, both political and military, through the majority of the Later Han and early Three Kingdoms period. It’s like having Medieval II and not including Byzantium - instead putting them behind a paywall. I know releasing incomplete games to sell cut content (that should have been in at release) as DLC is the norm for many developers, like CA, but it is highly anti-consumer and, quite frankly, a grossly disgusting practice.

If they published a Medieval game that started at 1460, or one that didn't cover lands of modern day Greece or Turkey, sure, I wouldn't wonder why they didn't include the Eastern Roman Empire. Were Nanman present in the very same period and region vanilla Three Kingdoms set in?

[Daruwind]

And which factions and characters would you place into DLCs so they would sell reasonably enough? Just curious @Seether...

[zoner16]

If they published a Medieval game that started at 1460, or one that didn't cover lands of modern day Greece or Turkey, sure, I wouldn't wonder why they didn't include the Eastern Roman Empire. Were Nanman present in the very same period and region vanilla Three Kingdoms set in?

Yes, well, mostly. The mountainous southwest regions northeast of Shi Xie's start and south of Jia Long's constitutes much of their territory. The rest is in the unreachable regions past the map's current southwestern end.

They're not the only ones. Several non-Han people had organized territory within the current bounds of the map, but are relegated to merely being auxiliary units at the moment.

The main argument against Nanman would be that they don't really become relevant until 225, which tends to be near the end of the current timescale of a typical campaign taken from the currently available start dates (182,190,194). Of course, this suggests that other, more immediately relevant people in the timeframe (like the Xiongnu, Qiang, and Wuhuan) should be, but they aren't, which can get very irritating.

At the end of the day, Total War always ships with noticeable omissions since making the whole map well defined and playable would be a herculean effort, whether the compromise just be making a faction an unplayable, generic clone of another, or the even less defined mass of "rebels" that weren't even capable of playing the game. Which omissions are acceptable or not largely depends on what you value.

Personally, the omission of the Nanman as a playable faction was less of a problem than some other factions (like the ones I listed above). The game shipped with 12 playable factions, which I felt was respectable, but some of the choices weren't very good in my opinion. I was more annoyed that they just...didn't exist in the game prior. Not even as auxiliary units. The mass of "uninhabited" territory in the south always struck me as disingenuous, since it should've at least had a limited placeholder faction that could break up the monotony.