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Thread: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

  1. #1101
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Well, I think Paradox is moving away from DLCs with incremental changes, you larger, less frequent that make large wholesale changes. That is, if HOI4 is an indication. If you read between the line CK3 looks like it will follow a similar pattern. CA likes doing "faction packs" and story packs. The problem with faction packs is that CA tends to not do much (if possible) to differentiate between initial available factions, so when they release a faction pack, it is more of a same. Usually the difference is buffed traits. TBH, differentiation should be more substantial than that so that experience is more than just a different starting position. With games with heterogeneous cultures (Shogun and 3K) this is admittedly much harder to do.

    Story packs could work, but the problem with any DLC is that it needs to more of a different time frame and updated units. The game-play needs to change to match the change in time frame and scale. CA often does not do this. So, the DLC just seems like more of the same. I bought the New republic for R2 and it is the first and the last. It is the base game with a different settling and map scale. The game-play is essentially the same.

    Good game play is a game that presents choice with real sacrifice. A good DLC either presents more choices or different choice with sacrifices. it is a waste of time to play a DLC with a different setting and scale only to be presented with the exact same choices and sacrifices.
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    CA likes doing "faction packs" and story packs. The problem with faction packs is that CA tends to not do much (if possible) to differentiate between initial available factions, so when they release a faction pack, it is more of a same. Usually the difference is buffed traits. TBH, differentiation should be more substantial than that so that experience is more than just a different starting position. With games with heterogeneous cultures (Shogun and 3K) this is admittedly much harder to do.
    Except testament to this is Wh1 and Wh2. Nobody trying the game at least for a short time can say that about even Core factions. And now with multiple DLCs,FLCs and updates, factions differencies are at most from any TW so far.

    Good game play is a game that presents choice with real sacrifice. A good DLC either presents more choices or different choice with sacrifices. it is a waste of time to play a DLC with a different setting and scale only to be presented with the exact same choices and sacrifices.
    Different campaign map would effect very importantly how the game is played. Great example for me is Empire/Napoleon. Where Napoleon offers basically very same approach for every campaign, Empire is allowing players to focus every game in different direction (for example England can focus Eu fight vs France/Spain..or focus N. America, Carribean Sea or focus India) This effect can be somehow mittigated with careful reshuffling of factions around bigger map but I agree that it is not fully possible on China map. That map is one big blob, no oceans or seas in the middle aka (mediterranean sea) , continents..And Shogun2 is another prime testament to this where all factions feel pretty much same and map starting position is not relevant. You either conquer that banana from one end or other or pick center with decision to make which direction is good for you. All thsi is pointing me to the fact that map layout is very important and bigger, more complex map with naval aspect is very good idea in my eyes.

    DMR: R2 (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    Except testament to this is Wh1 and Wh2. Nobody trying the game at least for a short time can say that about even Core factions. And now with multiple DLCs,FLCs and updates, factions differencies are at most from any TW so far.

    Different campaign map would effect very importantly how the game is played. Great example for me is Empire/Napoleon. Where Napoleon offers basically very same approach for every campaign, Empire is allowing players to focus every game in different direction (for example England can focus Eu fight vs France/Spain..or focus N. America, Carribean Sea or focus India) This effect can be somehow mittigated with careful reshuffling of factions around bigger map but I agree that it is not fully possible on China map. That map is one big blob, no oceans or seas in the middle aka (mediterranean sea) , continents..And Shogun2 is another prime testament to this where all factions feel pretty much same and map starting position is not relevant. You either conquer that banana from one end or other or pick center with decision to make which direction is good for you. All thsi is pointing me to the fact that map layout is very important and bigger, more complex map with naval aspect is very good idea in my eyes.
    You missed my point. I am not referring to differences in the game based on starting position. I am referring to differences of building choices, units, technology,, etc... Moreover, when a DLC is created, it should be more than a differed copy/ paste factions, but hange how you must choose to develop your faction based on a different mechanic based on the uniqueness of the DLC. In fact, it could be the same base campaign, but add a new mechanic to change the way you play the game. Perhaps I am bias, this is what we are creating with Imperial Splendour; a unique experience per faction.
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    And you missed my point as well ;-) So I will say it once more. You are right. Buildings, units, technologies, mechanics.. all those things can reshuffle how the game is played. On tactical (battles) level or even operational (campaigns) level. But map changes like different starting position, map itself will influence whole strategical (war) level of thinking. Ideally I would love all aspects to be change for new campaign. But even reshuffling can change things, if the map is complex enough. Examples are ME in Wh1/2 (for example take starting location for High Elves, Ulthuan vs Teclis in Lustria) or Empire Grand Campaign, offering so many options.

    But i fully agree that china map is not enough for that and 8K are weak DLC. :-) I can imagine CA able to fix it as they were able with ToB with patches.

    And as testament to that CA is able to make such different factions even subfaction is Wh again. But I understand it is way easier to differentiate fantasy races than Human factions...

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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    I got your point, but the point of my original post was that DLC is that it lacks a new mechanic to make it interesting to play.

    CA usually have universal trees and buildings with some variants for different factions, but this is not considerable. Even the special units is something you have to wait till middle or end game to acquire. If they going to create faction packs they should do more in-depth development of the subject factions. They could do cultural packs that includes an enhance change to what I discussed earlier as well as additional playable factions. It would make factions packs more desirable. This is similar to how Paradox approached their DLCs.

    The Problem with 3K is that it is all about the heroes. The faction uniqueness is supposed to be centered on the relationship with those they recruit. TBH, I care little attention to it except to boost their loyalty and that generally did the trick. Just like the so-called synergy of building chains and development, it didn't really matter in my play through. Of course, the last time players complained (ToB) they swung the pendulum in other direction and said, this is i as if they were upset we were not happy. Paradox i far more approachable with game design and is much more open with the development of their games. CA is shrouded with mystery and feel entitled to do it their way.
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  6. #1106
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    Grace just confirmed there will be new DLC this year. :-)
    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/co...dlc_this_year/
    At last, I'm faster than Daruwind in spreading the news! Grace just confirmed that the upcoming DLC got delayed, so it will not be released in 2019, as originally claimed (or not, depending on your interpretation of the "over next year" comment), but in early 2020. They plan to coincide it with the Chinese Lunar Year, which, according to a quick Google research, falls in the 29th of January. I wasn't completely surprised, because there had been too much time without any news, neither an announcement nor even a teaser. I suppose they would have normally published the relevant information in late October, last week. Anyway, nothing particularly serious, in my opinion, although the DLC pace for Three Kingdoms is definitely very slow, especially in comparison with previous historical titles. I wonder whether the extremely low retention numbers of the game and the 8 Princes pack have contributed to this policy of Creative Assembly.

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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Haha You managed to beat me this time Abdul! To me the situation with this DLC delay and 8 Princes seems like Norsca. As if CA decided to swap order of two DLCs in row...so 8 Princes were little rushed and this one is still being delayed for whatever reason.

    Still I found another piece of nice, info. Grace in another thread confirmed CA is not abandoning 3K and they have tons of plans for next year.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/co...of_the_korean/
    Grace_CA

    Creative Assembly11 points · 4 hours ago

    We're actively working on the next DLC for 3K and will have news about it before Christmas. Other than that, as linked below, we've shared our plans so far and will keep people updated next year.




    Grace_CA
    Creative Assembly7 points · 3 hours ago
    We absolutely have no plans to abandon 3K, I can confirm that.
    As said, the Nanman are coming. Before then over the next year though, we’ll be visiting the era of the Yellow Turban Rebellion and Liang Province rebellion, and then the clash of Cao Cao vs Lü Bu in the central plains. So we have lots of plans and I know that more information is something you want!



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  8. #1108
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    SteamDB for 3K is listing new unknown DLC (FLC) entry - https://steamdb.info/app/1209110/history/ so there are 3 unknown entries in total at the moment.

    3K list of DLCs

    https://steamdb.info/app/779340/dlc/

    EDIT: 2 entries got details (Mandate of Heaven DLC + Tao Qian FLC) so we are back at mere one unknown DLC entry
    Last edited by Daruwind; January 14, 2020 at 03:01 AM.

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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    New spotlight video for incomming deployables in Mandate of Heavens DLC.


    DMR: R2 (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!



    Very interesting vido. Especially possible future. We can see chapters expanding geographycally, expanding entire game, which should be for first time they are trying to do it in "DLC history" (okey finally like older expansion? I can imagine adding new landmass ala Darklands recently in ME Wh2 or Athen Loren in Wh1 and more. )

    DMR: R2 (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

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    Default Re: New Historical total war era announcement coming on Thursday!

    Very curious, I'm anxious for the historical TW! .

  12. #1112
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    New 3K DLC entry was just added to SteamDB - 1244640
    https://steamdb.info/app/779340/dlc/

    Could it be content for Make war not Love event? Reason would be that one DLC entry was also added today for WH2. Which looks quite suspicious..week ahead of Valentine.
    Last edited by Daruwind; February 06, 2020 at 05:50 AM.

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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    A few news I collect in previous days

    1) discussing DLCs ...North,South...expanding maps, new characters, improving old stuff


    2)https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/co...veloper_diary/
    mtgrhox
    The uploaded file is an original fourth picture of the new developer diary where the developer was explaining the change for the axe unit. This picture was swapped into Xu Chu charging into spear wall about three hours later.

    In this picture, the flag has 嚴 written on it. 嚴 is an uncommon Chinese character for a name and Yan Baihu is the only one who could be classified as a faction leader while having 嚴 as his last name.

    Furthermore, he was one of the opponents in Sun Ce's conquests in Jiangdong so he's a perfect fit in the upcoming 194 DLC filling the power vacuum in south China. Additionally, some people even categorize Yan Baihu as Shanyue, so he might come out as a barbarian warlord and help the diversity of faction roster in TK total war.


    3)https://www.totalwar.com/blog/dev-di...hree-kingdoms/
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Dev Diary: Balancing Total War: THREE KINGDOMS

    Total War: THREE KINGDOMS



    February 11 2020






    Balancing any game is no mean feat – and Total War: THREE KINGDOMS is no exception.
    We’re handing over to associate designer Matt Perkins in order to give you an insight into the balancing process, particularly in the leadup to the release of Mandate of Heaven – check it out below.
    Welcome to the battlefield


    When I started working as a designer to help with battle balancing for Total War: THREE KINGDOMS in July 2019, it was clear from the start I had a lot of work on my hands. I’ve been an avid fan of Total War for a very long time, having started playing MEDIEVAL: Total War when I was just 7 years old. As such, I arrived full of excitement and energy, ready to graciously fix every issue I encountered.
    I quickly found that was not how things were going to go down.
    My first balance fix was to decrease the damage of the defensive arrow towers, which the community had correctly pointed out were far too strong. However, when the patch went live the community suddenly found it was now impossible to hold unwalled settlements without a garrisoned army. The arrow towers no longer did enough damage to enemy heroes, who would now kill the entire garrison with impunity.
    Maybe this wasn’t as easy as I first thought…
    So, after some discussions with senior designers and community management, I started to create an expansive document detailing each battle-related community issue, the reason for said issue, and my suggestions as to how fix each one.
    Identifying issues


    Most balancing issues raised come from you, the community. Whether it’s a strongly worded complaint on steam, an in-depth discussion on Reddit, or a video showcasing how to win a multiplayer battle with only three Xu Chu clones, I probably have a link to it in my battle balance document.
    Most issues usually fall into one of three categories:

    • The mechanic in question had originally been designed with the Romance mode campaign in mind, meaning there was issues with its use in either Records mode or competitive multiplayer
    • An issue that the community had strongly differing opinions on (for example should heroes be reduced in power to be more balanced or should they be able to defeat entire armies alone like they do in Romance of the Three Kingdoms?)
    • Something that was working in theory but didn’t have the desired or a reduced effect when played outside the situation it was designed for

    I’d also like to give a huge thanks to Milk and Cookies Total War for his video, which focused on the various issues with multiplayer balancing. With Patch 1.3.0, I tried to tackle a lot of these issues by rebalancing many abilities and creating counter tactics against the most powerful heroes.
    When THREE KINGDOMS was initially being balanced, the system was based around a very large, very scary spreadsheet made of infinite pages of calculations that, somehow, spit out very detailed and rather lovely looking graphs.

    It was clear, however, that when tested in the heat of battle, players were able to use exploits and tactics that previous balance design hadn’t accounted for.
    Mandate of Heaven balance changes

    When deciding what balance changes I should make for Mandate of Heaven, I decided early on that I wanted to focus on units. With the last rebalancing having been based around heroes and multiplayer, I thought it best to try to address some of the issues the community were having regarding the lack of gameplay diversity in battles.
    The main issues being brought up in terms of unit balancing were:

    • Metal infantry units were underpowered across the board. As such, they were not being used
    • Militia units were far too powerful for their cost bracket, with players and AI often not upgrading them to higher tier units as there was no need to do so. Militia archers in particular were seen as too powerful, with the entire Water roster also considered an issue
    • Fire cavalry was more effective overall than Earth cavalry due to Fire cavalry being used to efficiently rout missile units

    With these issues in mind, I started to create a strategy to deal with them.
    First, I performed my own playtests. It soon became clear that, while each Metal unit could defeat its Wood counterpart, they would have so few men left afterwards that you were essentially sacrificing one unit to kill another. As such, we saw that many in the community had abandoned using Metal units, as they were not the most effective army build.

    To fix this, I didn’t want to simply increase damage for all Metal roster units – I wanted to add more tools for the player to use. This was the main reason that I gave axe units bonuses versus shields, and sword units bonuses to melee evasion.
    With these changes, axe units could then do more damage to shielded spears, who due to their low melee evasion took horrendous damage from the high damage output of the axe units. Meanwhile, the sword units could defend much better than before, meaning they took much less damage against Ji units and would eventually wear them down while taking little damage themselves.
    To accentuate these changes, I also lowered the morale of most Wood units as well as overhauling a large amount of the morale variables. This meant that the Wood units would now rout at higher numbers, meaning much more of the Metal infantry units would be left intact after combat.
    The morale changes also helped to consolidate the changes I’d made to make militia units weaker across the board. Militia units now felt fragile and prone to routing compared with the higher-cost and better-equipped units.
    All these changes mean you should now see greater variety in roles and tactics on the battlefield, with:

    • Axe units being great counters for shielded infantry
    • Militia units no longer as dependable as they once were
    • Sword and shield infantry able to hold the line without taking as many casualties
    • Archers being focused towards unshielded, low armour targets
    • Crossbows for anti-armour damage and hero suppression
    • Morale and fatigue should play a greater role on the battlefield, focusing on small groups of units should make pockets of the enemy battle line collapse, allowing for breakthroughs and flanking
    • Using missile troops to attack wavering troops is a good way to cause a rout

    Looking forward


    This is an ongoing strategy – many changes are still planned. In the future I plan to cover those things I didn’t have chance to get to during patch 1.4.0, such as looking into creating a clear distinction between the two cavalry rosters and how players acquire higher tier units, as well as understanding why archer usage has gone up despite them being reduced in power.
    With the changes made for Mandate of Heaven, I have taken steps to increase the diversity of gameplay. I hope you’ve all been enjoying the new changes and myriad units added with Mandate of Heaven and, as always, would love to hear your feedback – we’ve made a thread on the official forums for this very purpose!





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  14. #1114
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!


    DMR: R2 (Attila) (ToB) (Wh1/2) (3K) (Troy)

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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Alright, that largely settles the schedule, I guess. The Lü Bu - Cao Cao DLC will be revealed tomorrow, which probably leads to a release sometime around the 17th of March. The Goblin/High Elf pack is projected to be published sometime in May, which also means that Troy release date will almost certainly be before the summer vacations. June sounds as the likeliest period, in my opinion. Given that Creative Assembly uploads the trailer videos approximately three or two and a half months prior, I would expect the announcement between the DLCs of Three Kingdoms and Warhammer, i.e. late March/early April. The elephant in the room is the announcement of Warhammer III. Definitely after the release of the Saga game, so that the customers are not distracted, which could mean either early autumn or perhaps early July, similarly to Rome II. During the autumn, we should probably wait for the Vietnam culture content and perhaps for the last lord pack for Warhammer II, but I personally find it unlikely. The market already seems well-satiated and they will presumably need every available resource and employer for preparing the last part of the trilogy and to generate the necessary hype.

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