New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

[Noif de Bodemloze]

Live countdown... What will be next after Rome 2 and Attila?

[Basileos Leandros I]

Beat me to it

Quite curious, it's the new historical TW!

[Yayattasa]

Total War: Three Kingdoms. They apparently messed their announcement live video.

Announcing a new Total War era...

The year is 190CE. China is in turmoil. The Han Dynasty crumbles before the child-emperor. He is but a figurehead; a mere puppet for the tyrant warlord Dong Zhuo. It is a brutal and oppressive regime, and as Dong Zhuo’s power grows, the empire slips further into the cauldron of anarchy. But hope yet blossoms.
Three heroes, sworn to brotherhood in the face of tyranny, rally support for the trials ahead. Scenting opportunity, warlords from China’s great families follow suit, forming a fragile coalition in a bid to challenge Dong Zhuo’s remorseless rule. Will they triumph against the tyrant, or will personal ambition shatter their already crumbling alliance and drive them to supremacy?
The crucible fizzes. Allegiances shift. The fires of conflict stoke opportunity. Only one thing is certain: the very future of China will be shaped by its champions. Total War: Three Kingdoms is the next major historical strategy game in the award-winning Total War series.

EDIT: now I see I had posted the same video Noif linked in the OP, my mistake :p

[Noif de Bodemloze]

TOTAL WAR: THREE KINGDOMS!

We got China!

[Leonardo]

TOTAL WAR: THREE KINGDOMS!

We got China!

Yep, and Hader just posted a FP announcement about it.

[PointOfViewGun]

Middle Kingdom: Total War

Bingo! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

[Yayattasa]

Gamestar.de dropped the ball, so CA released the video as there was no point in keeping it for tomorrow. I wasn't actually expecting an announcement so early in the year.

[Noif de Bodemloze]

[Epic28]

Pretty ignorant when it comes to Chinese ancient history and the dynasty struggles. Can one expect this to be a similar Shogun-esque type of game?

[Roma_Victrix]

Pretty ignorant when it comes to Chinese ancient history and the dynasty struggles. Can one expect this to be a similar Shogun-esque type of game?

That's a big no, I think. You're going to see a lot of emphasis on stuff like Chinese crossbows and repeating crossbows, some chariots, as well as pike and halberd tactics and light cavalry used against northern Mongolic steppe nomads, no doubt (if they are wise enough to include the Xiongnu, Xianbei, and the Wuhuan, if not the Sino-Tibetan Qiang people of ancient Gansu, then known as Liang province).

The Chinese market is simply too juicy to just continue to ignore it. Personally, I can't really get started with the scenario, since its an entirely Chinese civil war without foreign involvement. Also too close to the Rome II and Attila timeframe for my taste.

I could be wrong, but I don't think this game will operate much like Rome II or Attila, to be honest, at least not in terms of tactics and unit variety. Also, if they are wise the developers at CA won't just include Chinese armies, but also as I hinted before the northern steppe nomads with tons of horse archers, as well as the hill tribesmen to the south. They could even include the armies of Champa in Vietnam, which had elephant cavalry in later periods (particularly when the Sui Dynasty invaded in the 6th century AD, in conjunction with their Korean fiasco). I'd be pleasantly surprised if they included early Goguryeo, one of the nascent Three Kingdoms of Korea (although at this time the Chinese were still colonizing northern Korea, where they had commanderies established since the 2nd century BC).

I think it would be good if the developers made a unique unit roster for the Tibetan Qiang peoples that overran Liang province to the northwest during the 180s AD, with sporadic rebellion afterwards. In that same token, it would be very shortsighted not to include the Wuhuan people to the northeast, who were invaded by Chancellor Cao Cao in 207 AD during his mission to capture or kill the sons the Yuan Shao, his former rival at Guandu in 200 AD. This would be the prime opportunity to showcase how Chinese armies squared against Mongolic nomadic ones in this time period. The Xianbei confederation was temporarily broken at this point but they should still have a menacing presence if we are to keep things historically accurate.

The problem, however, is that I fear this game will be too heavily based on the 14th-century historical fiction novel Romance of the Three Kingdoms of Luo Guanzhong, who wrote more than a millennium after the actual contemporary history Record of the Three Kingdoms was compiled by the Western Jin court historian Chen Shou. If that's the case you can expect some silly non-historical elements in the game, including near invincible characters or even Taoist magic employed by the Yellow Turban rebels. That would be a shame, seeing how this sort of thing is absent in other self-proclaimed historical titles from CA's Total War series.

China has so much interesting history to cover, and CA just had to pick the most fantasized, internal, and boring conflict imaginable.

CA isn't interested in innovating anymore, they picked a conflict "The Romance of the Three Kingdoms", which isn't even historically accurate in a lot of ways, that allows them to mirror Warhammer. More fantasy fighting rather than realism, more single units beating down on mass blocks, more of the same spear emphasis fighting.

Victoria: Total War set from 1830-1920 would have been an amazing time to show the East. Russo-Japanese War. Sino-Japanese War. Boxer Rebellions. Opium Wars. So much exciting fun history, but instead... fantasy.

I hear what you're saying and I also enjoy learning about Japanese and Chinese military conflicts in the 19th and 20th centuries, but you almost make it sound as if only modern-period conflicts in East Asia are worth covering. TW could easily do a purely historically accurate depiction of China in the 3rd century AD, during the Three Kingdoms period, so it is a deliberate choice to introduce fantasy elements vis a vis Luo Guanzhong's 14th-century historical fiction novel.

I think the most fruitful period would have been either the Mongol invasions of the 13th century, which included Central Asia, China, Vietnam, Korea, and even Japan. They could have also gone with a 16th-century mod to mirror the Imjin War, when Toyotomi Hideyoshi of Japan invaded Joseon Korea. The latter was aided and reinforced by Ming-dynasty China. To this day the ruins of Japanese-style castles still stand in South Korea, dated to the decade of the 1590s. It would allow for the showcasing of Korea's greatest naval admiral Yi Sun-Sin, who never lost a battle against the Japanese and is their equivalent of Britain's admiral Horatio Nelson.

Alternatively, they could also cover the Chinese Sui and Tang Dynasty's 6th- and 7th-century invasions of Goguryeo in what is now North Korea. The Tang also aided the Kingdom of Silla against Japanese invaders who were trying to restore the fallen kingdom of Baekje, which they had previously aided and considered a sibling country through some shared heritage. After the Silla kingdom unified much of the Korean peninsula, they then fought the Tang Chinese for control of Goguryeo's fallen realm, ending with a Silla victory and restoration of diplomatic relations.

[LinusLinothorax]

The Chinese market is simply too juicy to just continue to ignore it. Personally, I can't really get started with the scenario, since its an entirely Chinese civil war without foreign involvement. Also too close to the Rome II and Attila timeframe for my taste.

[Yayattasa]

I hope they don't focus too much on the duels
They use the formations more extensively than in previous titles; they were quite important to Chinese warfare (and its military treatises) at the time
And, lastly, do not pursue Lu Bu

[lolIsuck]

Was hoping for a Renaissance/early Age of Exploration myself and can't say I'm very excited for this but Shogun II did even less for me and I enjoyed that so I'm at least a bit curious.

[Pinarius]

So according to this map, Korea and parts of South East Asia should be part of the campaign map, too.



The young emperor from this trailer:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_of_Hongnong

edit: it's probably rather him:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Xian_of_Han

[katsusand]

Thank god it's not another Europe-focused TW. I'm so ing sick of those.
I realize a big portion of TW's fanbase is from Europe and CA want to appeal to them, but jeez, enough is enough... They practically covered every important era of Europe pre-WW1 (Which is boring trench Warefare than nobody wants... Hopefully)


I'm glad this exists.
I just hope they completely ditch the Warscape engine. "Duel" animations are no longer acceptable.

Pretty ignorant when it comes to Chinese ancient history and the dynasty struggles. Can one expect this to be a similar Shogun-esque type of game?

Waay less factions than Shogun, so expect a more focused experience.

[Epic28]

Thank god it's not another Europe-focused TW. I'm so ing sick of those.
I realize a big portion of TW's fanbase is from Europe and CA want to appeal to them, but jeez, enough is enough... They practically covered every important era of Europe pre-WW1 (Which is boring trench Warefare than nobody wants... Hopefully)


I'm glad this exists.
I just hope they completely ditch the Warscape engine. "Duel" animations are no longer acceptable.

It's really not CA's fault that Europe/Eurasia was the epicenter for nearly every major historical conflict over the last 2,500 years. I can't see them ever escalating into the 1900s gameplay wise either.

Personally I'd of loved Empire 2/Victorian TW. The last two historical titles (R2 and ATW) have been fairly similar combat wise to the timeframe of TW:3K (new acronym?) which were quite terrible with the current engine, so I'm little burned out on the melee based combat with Warscape.

Empire was completely new territory for CA and a very ambitious title that did a number of things well, whilst still being fairly buggy. I think it's gotta be in their pipeline for a proper remake.

[katsusand]

It's really not CA's fault that Europe/Eurasia was the epicenter for nearly every major historical conflict over the last 2,500 years..

There is a reason why CA conveniently skips the Rise of the Caliphate era... Despite being one of the most significant periods in history (The fall of the Sasanians and the massive Byzantine decline) with a multitude of epic, history changing battles and legendary commanders (Khalid ibn Al Waleed)

Can you guess why?

Hint: It's the same reason why not even a single mod in here covers that era.

[Darios]

There is a reason why CA conveniently skips the Rise of the Caliphate era... Despite being one of the most significant periods in history (The fall of the Sasanians and the massive Byzantine decline) with a multitude of epic, history changing battles and legendary commanders (Khalid ibn Al Waleed)

Can you guess why?

Hint: It's the same reason why not even a single mod in here covers that era.

Actually I am a bit curious regarding this. The biggest thing that irked me about Attila is that CA imagines that history fans are more interested in minor Anglo-Saxon/Germanic conflicts on the edge of the known world as opposed to the massive and world-defining conflict taking place between three superpowers in the East. I love Attila, but I felt as if I was playing the same game over and over again with each new campaign DLC.

[fightermedic]

Actually I am a bit curious regarding this. The biggest thing that irked me about Attila is that CA imagines that history fans are more interested in minor Anglo-Saxon/Germanic conflicts on the edge of the known world as opposed to the massive and world-defining conflict taking place between three superpowers in the East. I love Attila, but I felt as if I was playing the same game over and over again with each new campaign DLC.

well, people tend to be more interested in the history of their own people, than the other end of the world, and the largest video game marked used to be a extremely anglo-saxon one
that said, Anglo Saxon Britain IS a damn interesting scenario!

I am glad however, we get to see a new Era for a change

[SturmChurro]

There is a reason why CA conveniently skips the Rise of the Caliphate era... Despite being one of the most significant periods in history (The fall of the Sasanians and the massive Byzantine decline) with a multitude of epic, history changing battles and legendary commanders (Khalid ibn Al Waleed)

Can you guess why?

Hint: It's the same reason why not even a single mod in here covers that era.

Excuse me? What exactly are you implying here? That CA and mod makers for Total War are racists? Ridiculous assertion.

I think there are just more interesting conflicts that a mass audience in the west would know of and are taught about. That's why they cover fairly well known periods, on top of being based in the UK. I think the wen't with something like Thrones of Brittania for the period being popularized recently by things like The Last Kingdom and Vikings series. The hype. They have had middle eastern and muslim factions (in particular) featured heavily in Medieval 2 and the Crusades. I think something incorporating these Muslim factions into a medieval world again in general would be a much better choice for an era, but even that might be getting very stale at this point. I think something in the 16th century + would be better, for a new take on historical combat, and a change of scenery featuring maybe the new world, Africa, India again. A well redone Empire would be great - especially with how they are dabbling in merging giant campaigns in Mortal Empires.