New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

[PointOfViewGun]

Alas my friend, you clearly know nothing about CA, NDAs or gaming development, I told you that I have seen exactly when they were developed, I'm not making guesses. You know the difference right? I'm sure you haven't searched anything though and that because you don't really want to see your mistake here.
But whatever you say, sweetheart
Also, as always you're making everything too personal on the Forums. I think you'll need to relax, take a deep breath and have a good night's sleep.
Everything is gonna be alright. Here, have a kiss

I'm not sure why you'd repeat how well you witnessed the development phases. It doesn't matter when something was developed. The chief developer at CA could have found all the assets in a box in his grandpas house ten years ago. It wouldn't make a difference. Trying to avoid admitting that simple, that companies decide what the final product is, doesn't really help you position. When you saw when the DLC was developed has no value in this context regarding whether the game is cut or not. I know, reality isn't as catchy as some might like. No NDA, no knowledge on CA, or gaming development, stop you from telling us what feature, not content, but feature, CA made us pay for. You can run away from that as much as you like.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

I'm not sure why you'd repeat how well you witnessed the development phases. It doesn't matter when something was developed. The chief developer at CA could have found all the assets in a box in his grandpas house ten years ago. It wouldn't make a difference. Trying to avoid admitting that simple, that companies decide what the final product is, doesn't really help you position. When you saw when the DLC was developed has no value in this context regarding whether the game is cut or not. I know, reality isn't as catchy as some might like. No NDA, no knowledge on CA, or gaming development, stop you from telling us what feature, not content, but feature, CA made us pay for. You can run away from that as much as you like.

Pfff, I never said I should be the one who decides, I never said I own the company or the universe. I surely know that companies decide about the final product. I have already told you that. I only said IMO is unethical to cut down features and add them as DLC especially when your initial release is a mess and needs 21 patches to be playable (Rome 2 specifically) You asked me for an example and I clearly gave you (2 times) the first I have seen with my own eyes and I'm 100% sure about it. I'm NOT sure why you're becoming obsessed or making every comment a duel. If you believe CA is pure and right then I respect your opinion. Again I'm not trying to proselytize you here. I'm just stating what I know and I have seen. As I said many times If you don't believe it SEARCH IT and talk with other people (devs, testers, modders).

As you can see most of our talk is about Rome 2 and this is a 3 Kingdoms thread. Shall we move on? Do you wanna talk about 3K at all? If not make another thread and I'll gladly talk with you about Rome 2 or DLC policy etc
Are we clear?

Cheers

[La♔De♔Da♔Brigadier Graham]

Just a warning fellahs, please stay on topic!
brig

[PointOfViewGun]

Pfff, I never said I should be the one who decides, I never said I own the company or the universe. I surely know that companies decide about the final product. I have already told you that. I only said IMO is unethical to cut down features and add them as DLC especially when your initial release is a mess and needs 21 patches to be playable (Rome 2 specifically) You asked me for an example and I clearly gave you (2 times) the first I have seen with my own eyes and I'm 100% sure about it. I'm NOT sure why you're becoming obsessed or making every comment a duel. If you believe CA is pure and right then I respect your opinion. Again I'm not trying to proselytize you here. I'm just stating what I know and I have seen. As I said many times If you don't believe it SEARCH IT and talk with other people (devs, testers, modders).

As you can see most of our talk is about Rome 2 and this is a 3 Kingdoms thread. Shall we move on? Do you wanna talk about 3K at all? If not make another thread and I'll gladly talk with you about Rome 2 or DLC policy etc
Are we clear?

Cheers

You do imply that you are the one who decides by arguing that the game's finished state is what you decide, not what CA decides. CA decided to offer the Yellow Turbans as a DLC. Arguing that that makes the game unfinished implies that you think you have power over the game's scope. You don't. So far, you have only managed to provide examples that offered content, not features. There is a reason why you avoid being explicit and clear about the examples you gave. You try to be as vague as possible about them. You're not stating what you know and have seen. You're making false statements. I love how you accuse me of turning every comment to a duel when you have no problem continuing that duel. If you don't like it you're free to change your way. It's not about me thinking that CA is pure. I made no such comment. It's about you making false statements about what they offered in DLCs so far, and your take on it that they will likely continue that non-existent practice with Three Kingdoms. The fact remains that they have never sold you a feature. They only sold content. You can not name a single feature that they have sold. It is highly likely they will continue to only offer content in DLC while any feature that is to be added to the game will be free.

[PikeStance]

Strongly (but respectfully) disagree. Day one DLC's have nothing to do with pre-order prizes for loyal fans etc since they SHOULD be in the base game from the start. It's a very bad policy and it offers nothing to the consumers. Just a money grab. They deliberately present semi-finished products to grab our money with DLC. Maybe you're ok with that, but I'm not. FYI I already have the game (for free) and early access, so I have watched the game's development from within and I can assure you they have cutted out many base game features, just to add them back as DLCs. Everybody knows about that. it's not a secret

But it's not about money...More like an ethical thing, at least for me, plus a ''common policy'' isn't ofc ethical or even logical (most of the time).



Leo is probably talking about Rome's 2 Tech issues since Day 1. For example, many people with beastly pcs were experiencing issues or same performance with med and low level pcs and that, of course, was unacceptable and cause by Rome's 2 very bad optimizations. Anti Aliasing wasn't working until their latest big patch, yeah a core game fix after 5 yrs. Admittedly Attila was (still is) a worse optimization example and Warhammer's much-promised Directx12 performance is just disastrous. But that's another story

Developers are in the business to make a profit. It is their choice to include what features they want in a game. I promise you they have a general outline of additional content to add. It is the nature of gaming today.
There is nothing unethical about offering additional content to those that pre-order. As I stated, they can choose to make it immediately available or not.

If you do not like certain business practice then the only say you have is your pocketbook.

[Daruwind]

Yeah exactly! Plus i can see only two way here, let´s say base game is 60 bucks:

1) offer pre-order discount ....60-5=55 bucks. Only positive is, it is little cheaper for player. But this is usually in terms of 5-10% so if money are issue, then waiting for steam sale is logical conclusion especially as steam sales are pretty sure things and sales go up to 50-75% discount...
2) offer pre-order content .... 60+0 bucks. Positive is, players are getting more content plus developer is getting more money so the game might be bigger.

We can easily see evolution of FLC and pre-order content over years, heck even DLC quality. I agree that R2 even pre-order bonus for WH1 were weaker BUT go look at Warhammer 2 and now Yellow Turbans. Look at WH FLC content and latest free stuff for R2. All these looks very good in comparison with previous titles so for me it is easy choice. Looks like CA is learning from past and even if we disagree with pre-roder/DLC whatever current policy, the implementation and actual content have the best ratio of value per bucks. Like do you guys remember unit packs for Empire? Napoleon? ;-)

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Developers are in the business to make a profit. It is their choice to include what features they want in a game. I promise you they have a general outline of additional content to add. It is the nature of gaming today.
There is nothing unethical about offering additional content to those that pre-order. As I stated, they can choose to make it immediately available or not.

If you do not like certain business practice then the only say you have is your pocketbook.

Well, we were talking about Rome's 2 additional day 1 paid content (specifically) while their base game was in a beta state and as we all know one of the worst releases in Total War history. I don't think anyone could argue that. That's material for another topic though, so please let's move on


@All,

Let's get back to 3 Kingdoms discussion though and since we already have posted an on-topic warning, anything under my post will be off-topic. Feel free to creat another thread if you want to talk about DLC and CA's policies.

Thank you,
G.S

[Anna_Gein]

Video games are one of the few industries where many customers accept robbing, if they do not justify it.

Day 1 DLC are frauds period.

YouTube reviews are kicking in. The game appears to be ok with a good campaign but mediocre battles. I can't wait to read "real" players' reviews.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Video games are one of the few industries where many customers accept robbing, if they do not justify it.

Day 1 DLC are frauds period.

YouTube reviews are kicking in. The game appears to be ok with a good campaign but mediocre battles. I can't wait to read "real" players' reviews.

One of the biggest gaming sites just wrote. ''Not the best or the worst Total War game''.

[PointOfViewGun]

Video games are one of the few industries where many customers accept robbing, if they do not justify it.
Day 1 DLC are frauds period.
YouTube reviews are kicking in. The game appears to be ok with a good campaign but mediocre battles. I can't wait to read "real" players' reviews.

They force you to pay extra or to buy the game pre-launch?

[Anna_Gein]

One of the biggest gaming sites just wrote. ''Not the best or the worst Total War game''.

One of my main interrogation is the UI. To me it looks difficult use but the 3/4 reviewers I watched said it is good/ok even if it is sometimes bloated. And to be fair it is difficult to judge an UI until you use it yourself.

So it is definitely area where I am looking for "popular" feedback.

[Nebaki]

What is the so called "Historical" in this up-coming Game? Flying Chinese Superheroes like on the Old Martial Arts Movies from the 20th Century?

[LestaT]

Just a few more days. I hope my pc wont start acting funny.

[PikeStance]

Well, we were talking about Rome's 2 additional day 1 paid content (specifically) while their base game was in a beta state and as we all know one of the worst releases in Total War history. I don't think anyone could argue that. That's material for another topic though, so please let's move on

No, my original response is regard to the inclusion of the Yellow Turban DLC as part of the pre-order package. I didn't pre-order Rome II and have no memory of what they offered upon release, so it is not germane or relevant to my points about the "release of the Three Kingdoms."

If I was a PR/ marketing for CA, I would have "sold" the Yellow Turban as "additional Bonus Content." I would have made it available to the public maybe 6 months or a year later.

The game success will depend on how well the AI utilizes the various game play features. There is already one criticism regarding the spy system. Historically, the game needs a massive overall. Hopefully, modders will swoop in and fix the "afterthought records mode. If not, sales will dip. I do not expect they will be many people playing the fantasy mode.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

No, my original response is regard to the inclusion of the Yellow Turban DLC as part of the pre-order package. I didn't pre-order Rome II and have no memory of what they offered upon release, so it is not germane or relevant to my points about the "release of the Three Kingdoms."

If I was a PR/ marketing for CA, I would have "sold" the Yellow Turban as "additional Bonus Content." I would have made it available to the public maybe 6 months or a year later.

The game success will depend on how well the AI utilizes the various game play features. There is already one criticism regarding the spy system. Historically, the game needs a massive overall. Hopefully, modders will swoop in and fix the "afterthought records mode. If not, sales will dip. I do not expect they will be many people playing the fantasy mode.

Oh, I know your response was about Yellow Turban. My previous comments were about the general pre order dlc policy with Rome 2 as an example, since I have searched the specific case thoroughly
Now about 3 Kingdoms specifically (our threads main topic) I agree with you points.

One of my main interrogation is the UI. To me it looks difficult use but the 3/4 reviewers I watched said it is good/ok even if it is sometimes bloated. And to be fair it is difficult to judge an UI until you use it yourself.

So it is definitely area where I am looking for "popular" feedback.

I can say that UI is quite handy (at least for me) I'm not loving it, but it's not as horrible as some people may think.

[zoner16]

The game success will depend on how well the AI utilizes the various game play features. There is already one criticism regarding the spy system. Historically, the game needs a massive overall. Hopefully, modders will swoop in and fix the "afterthought records mode. If not, sales will dip. I do not expect they will be many people playing the fantasy mode.

The online reaction to the pre-release streams seems to imply that Romance mode is going to be fairly popular on the other side of the Pacific. This might end up as a regional divide.

Currently it looks like the AI is doing alright at utilizing diplomacy and isn't completely sabotaging itself with its generals, though there are some instances of some eyebrow-raising defections. I'd say the lack of the use of the espionage system is more the problem of that system than the AI. Everyone keeps sending low level generals off to be spies because it doesn't make sense to send mid-high level ones off early game, but the AI never picks them up because it doesn't make sense to pick up a low level general out of the pool. One can imagine that the same is happening the other way around with any agents the AI sends at the player.

As for overhauls, well, this just got announced (at 4:20):

Dunno if it's going to be historical focused or not, but with a name like Dresden's attached, I would hope so.

[AHumpierRogue]

My worry with modding is that despite not being Warhammer and thus not having to follow the IP rules of Warhammer, they still won't allow importing new models. Maybe it's a baseless fear but obviously it would really suck if new models could not be imported into 3K.

[Bran Mac Born]

Who pays full price for this stuff-wait 6 months when they patch it and there are some mods and get it on sale 50-75% off. I would never buy a CA game full price ever. Or any game full price ever-waste of money.

[PikeStance]

The online reaction to the pre-release streams seems to imply that Romance mode is going to be fairly popular on the other side of the Pacific. This might end up as a regional divide.

Currently it looks like the AI is doing alright at utilizing diplomacy and isn't completely sabotaging itself with its generals, though there are some instances of some eyebrow-raising defections. I'd say the lack of the use of the espionage system is more the problem of that system than the AI. Everyone keeps sending low level generals off to be spies because it doesn't make sense to send mid-high level ones off early game, but the AI never picks them up because it doesn't make sense to pick up a low level general out of the pool. One can imagine that the same is happening the other way around with any agents the AI sends at the player.

The Chinese would probably prefer the fantasy version. TBH, my students are not that keen on the Three Kingdom period, though they do learn about it. Chinese history is taught at a very shallow level. I would not be surprise to find out if they know more about the Romance stories than the real history.

The spy thing seems like a reasonable explanation.

My worry with modding is that despite not being Warhammer and thus not having to follow the IP rules of Warhammer, they still won't allow importing new models. Maybe it's a baseless fear but obviously it would really suck if new models could not be imported into 3K.

I am do not have an interest in Warhammer, but if memory serve I believe there is some trademark/ copyright issues with modding the game.

Who pays full price for this stuff-wait 6 months when they patch it and there are some mods and get it on sale 50-75% off. I would never buy a CA game full price ever. Or any game full price ever-waste of money.

I have never seen sale of any base game for more than 20% within the first year of release. In 6 months time (and going on what I have observed), the best you are going to get is 10%. This was one of the factors for ordering during the Holiday season rather than in October.

[Daruwind]

Who pays full price for this stuff-wait 6 months when they patch it and there are some mods and get it on sale 50-75% off. I would never buy a CA game full price ever. Or any game full price ever-waste of money.

Because you get nothing in 6 months? SteamDB is nicely keeping track of steam sales.... games getting -50% after year and half and -75% takes little longer. Both ToB and Wh2 was not even on -75% sale yet!