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Thread: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

  1. #1101
    PikeStance's Avatar ⚜️ Omnipresent ⚜️
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Well, I think Paradox is moving away from DLCs with incremental changes, you larger, less frequent that make large wholesale changes. That is, if HOI4 is an indication. If you read between the line CK3 looks like it will follow a similar pattern. CA likes doing "faction packs" and story packs. The problem with faction packs is that CA tends to not do much (if possible) to differentiate between initial available factions, so when they release a faction pack, it is more of a same. Usually the difference is buffed traits. TBH, differentiation should be more substantial than that so that experience is more than just a different starting position. With games with heterogeneous cultures (Shogun and 3K) this is admittedly much harder to do.

    Story packs could work, but the problem with any DLC is that it needs to more of a different time frame and updated units. The game-play needs to change to match the change in time frame and scale. CA often does not do this. So, the DLC just seems like more of the same. I bought the New republic for R2 and it is the first and the last. It is the base game with a different settling and map scale. The game-play is essentially the same.

    Good game play is a game that presents choice with real sacrifice. A good DLC either presents more choices or different choice with sacrifices. it is a waste of time to play a DLC with a different setting and scale only to be presented with the exact same choices and sacrifices.
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  2. #1102
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    CA likes doing "faction packs" and story packs. The problem with faction packs is that CA tends to not do much (if possible) to differentiate between initial available factions, so when they release a faction pack, it is more of a same. Usually the difference is buffed traits. TBH, differentiation should be more substantial than that so that experience is more than just a different starting position. With games with heterogeneous cultures (Shogun and 3K) this is admittedly much harder to do.
    Except testament to this is Wh1 and Wh2. Nobody trying the game at least for a short time can say that about even Core factions. And now with multiple DLCs,FLCs and updates, factions differencies are at most from any TW so far.

    Good game play is a game that presents choice with real sacrifice. A good DLC either presents more choices or different choice with sacrifices. it is a waste of time to play a DLC with a different setting and scale only to be presented with the exact same choices and sacrifices.
    Different campaign map would effect very importantly how the game is played. Great example for me is Empire/Napoleon. Where Napoleon offers basically very same approach for every campaign, Empire is allowing players to focus every game in different direction (for example England can focus Eu fight vs France/Spain..or focus N. America, Carribean Sea or focus India) This effect can be somehow mittigated with careful reshuffling of factions around bigger map but I agree that it is not fully possible on China map. That map is one big blob, no oceans or seas in the middle aka (mediterranean sea) , continents..And Shogun2 is another prime testament to this where all factions feel pretty much same and map starting position is not relevant. You either conquer that banana from one end or other or pick center with decision to make which direction is good for you. All thsi is pointing me to the fact that map layout is very important and bigger, more complex map with naval aspect is very good idea in my eyes.

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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    Except testament to this is Wh1 and Wh2. Nobody trying the game at least for a short time can say that about even Core factions. And now with multiple DLCs,FLCs and updates, factions differencies are at most from any TW so far.

    Different campaign map would effect very importantly how the game is played. Great example for me is Empire/Napoleon. Where Napoleon offers basically very same approach for every campaign, Empire is allowing players to focus every game in different direction (for example England can focus Eu fight vs France/Spain..or focus N. America, Carribean Sea or focus India) This effect can be somehow mittigated with careful reshuffling of factions around bigger map but I agree that it is not fully possible on China map. That map is one big blob, no oceans or seas in the middle aka (mediterranean sea) , continents..And Shogun2 is another prime testament to this where all factions feel pretty much same and map starting position is not relevant. You either conquer that banana from one end or other or pick center with decision to make which direction is good for you. All thsi is pointing me to the fact that map layout is very important and bigger, more complex map with naval aspect is very good idea in my eyes.
    You missed my point. I am not referring to differences in the game based on starting position. I am referring to differences of building choices, units, technology,, etc... Moreover, when a DLC is created, it should be more than a differed copy/ paste factions, but hange how you must choose to develop your faction based on a different mechanic based on the uniqueness of the DLC. In fact, it could be the same base campaign, but add a new mechanic to change the way you play the game. Perhaps I am bias, this is what we are creating with Imperial Splendour; a unique experience per faction.
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  4. #1104
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    And you missed my point as well ;-) So I will say it once more. You are right. Buildings, units, technologies, mechanics.. all those things can reshuffle how the game is played. On tactical (battles) level or even operational (campaigns) level. But map changes like different starting position, map itself will influence whole strategical (war) level of thinking. Ideally I would love all aspects to be change for new campaign. But even reshuffling can change things, if the map is complex enough. Examples are ME in Wh1/2 (for example take starting location for High Elves, Ulthuan vs Teclis in Lustria) or Empire Grand Campaign, offering so many options.

    But i fully agree that china map is not enough for that and 8K are weak DLC. :-) I can imagine CA able to fix it as they were able with ToB with patches.

    And as testament to that CA is able to make such different factions even subfaction is Wh again. But I understand it is way easier to differentiate fantasy races than Human factions...

  5. #1105
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    I got your point, but the point of my original post was that DLC is that it lacks a new mechanic to make it interesting to play.

    CA usually have universal trees and buildings with some variants for different factions, but this is not considerable. Even the special units is something you have to wait till middle or end game to acquire. If they going to create faction packs they should do more in-depth development of the subject factions. They could do cultural packs that includes an enhance change to what I discussed earlier as well as additional playable factions. It would make factions packs more desirable. This is similar to how Paradox approached their DLCs.

    The Problem with 3K is that it is all about the heroes. The faction uniqueness is supposed to be centered on the relationship with those they recruit. TBH, I care little attention to it except to boost their loyalty and that generally did the trick. Just like the so-called synergy of building chains and development, it didn't really matter in my play through. Of course, the last time players complained (ToB) they swung the pendulum in other direction and said, this is i as if they were upset we were not happy. Paradox i far more approachable with game design and is much more open with the development of their games. CA is shrouded with mystery and feel entitled to do it their way.
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  6. #1106
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    Grace just confirmed there will be new DLC this year. :-)
    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/co...dlc_this_year/
    At last, I'm faster than Daruwind in spreading the news! Grace just confirmed that the upcoming DLC got delayed, so it will not be released in 2019, as originally claimed (or not, depending on your interpretation of the "over next year" comment), but in early 2020. They plan to coincide it with the Chinese Lunar Year, which, according to a quick Google research, falls in the 29th of January. I wasn't completely surprised, because there had been too much time without any news, neither an announcement nor even a teaser. I suppose they would have normally published the relevant information in late October, last week. Anyway, nothing particularly serious, in my opinion, although the DLC pace for Three Kingdoms is definitely very slow, especially in comparison with previous historical titles. I wonder whether the extremely low retention numbers of the game and the 8 Princes pack have contributed to this policy of Creative Assembly.

  7. #1107
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    Default Re: New Historical total war era - Total War: Three Kingdoms!

    Haha You managed to beat me this time Abdul! To me the situation with this DLC delay and 8 Princes seems like Norsca. As if CA decided to swap order of two DLCs in row...so 8 Princes were little rushed and this one is still being delayed for whatever reason.

    Still I found another piece of nice, info. Grace in another thread confirmed CA is not abandoning 3K and they have tons of plans for next year.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/co...of_the_korean/
    Grace_CA

    Creative Assembly11 points · 4 hours ago

    We're actively working on the next DLC for 3K and will have news about it before Christmas. Other than that, as linked below, we've shared our plans so far and will keep people updated next year.




    Grace_CA
    Creative Assembly7 points · 3 hours ago
    We absolutely have no plans to abandon 3K, I can confirm that.
    As said, the Nanman are coming. Before then over the next year though, we’ll be visiting the era of the Yellow Turban Rebellion and Liang Province rebellion, and then the clash of Cao Cao vs Lü Bu in the central plains. So we have lots of plans and I know that more information is something you want!



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