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Thread: New Town (Carthage AAR) [updated April 3, 2021]

  1. #201
    Cookiegod's Avatar CIVUS DIVUS EX CLIBANO
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    Default Re: New Town (Carthage AAR) [updated September 14, 2019]

    Nice new update!
    Question: Qart Hadasht is Phoenician for "New City" (as you obviously know, given the AAR title) and both Carthage and Carthagena (stemming from the Roman name Carthago nova = new "new town") had this exact same name. I assume when you talk about Qart Hadasht you're exclusively referring to the Iberian one, because that's the one ingame that has that name, right? Just to be sure because I tended to get confused from time to time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    From Socrates over Jesus to me it has always been the lot of any true visionary to be rejected by the reactionary bourgeoisie
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    Default Re: New Town (Carthage AAR) [updated September 14, 2019]

    Nice new update! I like the revelations, especially the one about Admago having acting honourably (effectively that probably means you made the game deliberately harder for yourself, by strengthening the opposition, right?)

    Question about Qart Hadasht, which is Phoenician for Carthage, which as you probably know (given the thread title) means "New city". Two cities had this exact same name, the Carthage in modern day Tunesia and Carthagena (from the later latin name Carthago nova) in Iberia. Only the latter carries in Rome II the original Phoenician name. I guess you're using the ingame names and exclusively referring to the Iberian one by that name? Because I've been confused at times when that name came up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    From Socrates over Jesus to me it has always been the lot of any true visionary to be rejected by the reactionary bourgeoisie
    Qualis noncives pereo! #justiceforcookie #egalitéfraternitécookié #CLM

  3. #203
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    Default Re: New Town (Carthage AAR) [updated September 7, 2019]

    Very interesting developments indeed. I really liked this chapter, the tone and contents of it really speak to me. Hopefully the truth will reach all corners of Carthage's empire and that Admago's name is cleared from this disgrace though such a large stain, false or otherwise is not easy to destroy even when the truth comes out.

    (I didn't know you could resolve civil war diplomatically in Rome II. Guess I learned something today. Good work CA.)

  4. #204

    Default Re: New Town (Carthage AAR) [updated September 14, 2019]

    Finally finished this after being recommended by Welsh Dragon. It was fascinating to read the change over time. It began as the historical account, as everyone has pointed out, and then included dialogue and finally personal accounts via the letters.

  5. #205

    Default Re: New Town (Carthage AAR) [updated September 14, 2019]

    Only another 23 chapters to catch up on!

    Great read so far. I really like your format; short, sharp and colourful. I think those early troubles also really made your save, especially as a story. Your characters are developing nicely too!

  6. #206
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: New Town (Carthage AAR) [updated September 14, 2019]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    Nice new update! I like the revelations, especially the one about Admago having acting honourably (effectively that probably means you made the game deliberately harder for yourself, by strengthening the opposition, right?)
    Thanks, up to a point I did, although if I didn't allow the opposition parties to command armies which were equivalent to their influence, the game would have given them armies anyway. The main point of the Truth about Tolosa chapter was that the chapters from the point of view of Nape, son of Sanais, were telling a twisted version of history. (Of course, Astarte daughter of Admago and Garafin, son of Passaris, the other narrators, have their own agendas too!).

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    Question about Qart Hadasht, which is Phoenician for Carthage, which as you probably know (given the thread title) means "New city". Two cities had this exact same name, the Carthage in modern day Tunesia and Carthagena (from the later latin name Carthago nova) in Iberia. Only the latter carries in Rome II the original Phoenician name. I guess you're using the ingame names and exclusively referring to the Iberian one by that name? Because I've been confused at times when that name came up.
    That's right, I'm using the in-game names. The capital of Carthage in north Africa is called Carthago in the game (and the AAR). Quart Hadasht is a Carthaginian colony in Iberia in the game (and the AAR, where it became the capital of Sanais's rebels in the civil war). I can see how this would be confusing! The civil war between the 'old' New Town (Carthago) and the 'new' New Town (Quart Hadasht) was meant to link the story to the title of the AAR.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turkafinwë View Post
    Very interesting developments indeed. I really liked this chapter, the tone and contents of it really speak to me. Hopefully the truth will reach all corners of Carthage's empire and that Admago's name is cleared from this disgrace though such a large stain, false or otherwise is not easy to destroy even when the truth comes out.

    (I didn't know you could resolve civil war diplomatically in Rome II. Guess I learned something today. Good work CA.)
    Yes, Nape's attacks on Admago damaged his reputation, giving people the impression that he was a weak and indecisive leader. You're right, that reputation wouldn't be easy to erase, which may have inlfuenced an event in the next chapter.

    (I like the fact that civil wars can be resolved diplomatically too. Also, if you play as Athens, you start as a client state of Macedon. The obvious way for Athens to liberate yourself is to declare war on Macedon, although when I played as Athens, I found that it was possible - when Athens had become powerful enough and fought several wars alongside Macedon - to use diplomacy to change your status from client state to ally.)

    Quote Originally Posted by DreamKing View Post
    Finally finished this after being recommended by Welsh Dragon. It was fascinating to read the change over time. It began as the historical account, as everyone has pointed out, and then included dialogue and finally personal accounts via the letters.
    Thanks, yes I'm enjoying trying out different styles of writing this.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaesarsSword View Post
    Only another 23 chapters to catch up on!

    Great read so far. I really like your format; short, sharp and colourful. I think those early troubles also really made your save, especially as a story. Your characters are developing nicely too!
    Thanks, short, sharp and colourful is what I'm aiming for. Good point, difficulties in a campaign can really help a story and its characters to develop.
    Last edited by Alwyn; September 29, 2019 at 06:32 AM.

  7. #207
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: New Town (Carthage AAR) [updated September 14, 2019]

    Chapter 39
    The Last Shophet
    by Garafin, son of Passaris

    From Garafin, general of the Defenders of Egypt, to Passaris, governor of Panticapaeum on the Black Sea.

    There is a saying in Iberia, that men yearn to be remembered. Sanais, the proud general who started the civil war, will be remembered, but not fondly or with honour. When people talk of Sanais, they will remember a man who turned our people against one another. They will remember a man who started a war which cost us more than the Himpsal’s campaign in Iberia, or Mascarada’s defence against the Triple Alliance which ended after you led your army through the lands of our enemies to found the Black Sea colony.

    Three of Carthage’s finest armies joined Sanais’s Carthage in rebellion. The first was destroyed by my army at Memphis, the second was defeated by of Admago’s armies south of Rome, and the third was swept aside by Lusitani warriors, our allies, who were returning to their traditional lands in Iberia.

    By the time my army reached Iberia, the war was almost over. Sanais’s forces fell back to their last stronghold, the west Iberian port of Olisipo. My army was at full strength, so I commanded the attack. At first, the defenders allowed my army to see only a fraction of their strength.



    Perhaps they hoped that we would be overconfident and allow ourselves to be trapped in Olisipo’s streets. You taught me the necessity of using cavalry to scout ahead, so I knew the danger. When we defended our Black Sea colony from the eastern horsemen with their powerful bows, we learned how effective archers can be. My Egyptian archers can hurt the enemy badly and they don’t need horses, they only have to be faster than the heavy infantry they’re firing at. After the archers thinned the enemy hoplites, my Libyan and Carthaginian infantry met the enemy charge. After the enemy line broke, we couldn’t find Sanais, the rebel leader or his son, Nape. Some of my cavalrymen reported seeing a handful of ships leaving Olisipo’s harbour, so I believe they fled into exile. With only a few followers, Sanais will not threaten Carthage any more.



    This experience made me realise that Astarte, daughter of Admago, was right when she encouraged me to consider how to reunite a divided nation after the civil war. I guessed part of the plan. The nobles who followed Sanais died or fled with him. Most of the Iberian lands which the rebels owned now belong to their traditional owners, our allies. I didn’t foresee the next step.

    There was criticism of the slow response of Admago’s armies to the rebellion. Some blamed this on the endless debates along the Council in Carthago. Admago, who as Shophet was first among equals in the Council, has been proclaimed Emperor. If our Black Sea colony wishes to become independent one day, Sanais's defeat demonstrates that this must be achieved through diplomacy, not war.


    Last edited by Alwyn; September 29, 2019 at 06:56 AM.

  8. #208

    Default Re: New Town (Carthage AAR) [updated September 29, 2019]

    This is a nice conclusion to the civil war sub-plot that has been going for that last handful of updates. I'd rep you, but as is so often the case, I can't Anyway, looking forward to see where things go next. I can't remember who the "real" enemies are anymore, but I assume you have plenty still to deal with.
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  9. #209
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    Default Re: New Town (Carthage AAR) [updated September 29, 2019]

    Well written and done. So you get a vid when you win a civil war?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    From Socrates over Jesus to me it has always been the lot of any true visionary to be rejected by the reactionary bourgeoisie
    Qualis noncives pereo! #justiceforcookie #egalitéfraternitécookié #CLM

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    Default Re: New Town (Carthage AAR) [updated September 14, 2019]

    Like Kilo11 said a satisfactory conclusion to the civil war that has changed Carthage forever. When old enemies fall, new will eventually spring forth. Interested to see what Carthage will do with its newly formed government of state.

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    Default Re: New Town (Carthage AAR) [updated September 14, 2019]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilo11 View Post
    This is a nice conclusion to the civil war sub-plot that has been going for that last handful of updates. I'd rep you, but as is so often the case, I can't Anyway, looking forward to see where things go next. I can't remember who the "real" enemies are anymore, but I assume you have plenty still to deal with.
    Thanks, the civil war was a significant sub-plot, I enjoyed playing and writing it. Carthage still has enemies on its northern frontier and others may emerge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    Well written and done. So you get a vid when you win a civil war?
    Thanks, yes you get a video at the start of the civil war with two lions facing off against each other, and at the end of a civil war there's a second video with just one lion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turkafinwë View Post
    Like Kilo11 said a satisfactory conclusion to the civil war that has changed Carthage forever. When old enemies fall, new will eventually spring forth. Interested to see what Carthage will do with its newly formed government of state.
    Thanks, that's right, Carthage's leaders need to establish a new system of imperial rule, avoid another civil war, defend their borders and keep watch for new enemies.

  12. #212
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: New Town (Carthage AAR) [updated September 14, 2019]

    Chapter 40
    Our Best Defence
    by Astarte, daughter of Admago

    From Astarte, to Admago, Emperor of Carthage

    Carthago is celebrating the news that you are advancing against the Germanic tribes who sacked Noreia. You wrote that you need another general for this war and asked whether Garafin’s reputation is well-earned. His thinking is unorthodox; his soldiers are pikemen, archers, swordsmen and cavalry, without the hoplites who are the traditional mainstay of our forces. Some generals who visited Carthago said that Garafin’s victory at Memphis inspired them. They said that, before Memphis, we lost battles and, afterwards, we won. Garafin’s friends in the Council told these generals to thank the Emperor and the gods for our victories, saying that Garafin is simply one commander among many, which is a good sign.

    When Epirus sent an army into our lands in Illyria, Garafin’s response was decisive. He defeated the army of the King of Epirus, conquering his small kingdom and preventing your forces in the north from being cut off from the rest of your empire. Garafin also anticipated that the Triple Alliance of Athens, Macedon and the Seleucids, our traditional enemies and now our wary friends, could be alarmed by the arrival of a Carthaginian army on their border. Garafin sent messengers to the governors of nearby Triple Alliance cities, informing them of his actions. He fought alongside the Triple Alliance against an army of escaped slaves which threatened their lands and ours. To guard Illyria, Garafin recruited Romans into Carthaginian service.



    Garafin earned fame, but he has not tried to gather the support of other generals, as Sanais did before the civil war began. When I met him during the civil war, he was determined that Carthage should be re-unified under your leadership. However, despite his distinguished military record and his loyalty, the advice of our family’s supporters in the Council is that you should not summon him to join you on the northern frontier for the war against the Germanic tribes.

    Some Council members are afraid that even a loyal general’s heart could be corrupted, if he became so popular that he could not resist the calls of others to make a bid for power. Other Council members are alarmed by reports of the growing power of the kingdoms of Sardes and Media, who now occupy large territories beyond the eastern border of our Aegyptian lands. When we sent emissaries to offer treaties of friendship and trade, they returned with nothing. One ambassador reported that a prince of the Sardes mocked Carthage as a weak and divided nation. If Sardes and Media try to take the rich lands of Aegyptus from us, we will have a strategic problem. If our armies march east from Aegyptus, they will be in a vast open plain, vulnerable to attack from fast-moving enemies who know the land. Without a mountain range or other natural border, this could be a difficult war. Garafin’s unorthodox thinking and inspiring leadership could be our best defence.

  13. #213

    Default Re: New Town (Carthage AAR) [updated October 19, 2019]


  14. #214
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    Default Re: New Town (Carthage AAR) [updated October 19, 2019]

    It's great to see that even after the civil war the scheming and politics keeps going. Astarte is an astute assessor giving well argumented advise to her father about Garafin in regards to the situation in Egypt.

    As always, a great update!

  15. #215
    Welsh Dragon's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: New Town (Carthage AAR) [updated October 19, 2019]

    Just been catching up again. Excellent writing as always.

    So the the Civil War is over, but many threats still remain both within the Carthaginian Empire and beyond its borders. Aegyptos definitely sounds like a strategically important province you can't afford to lose, and in general your forces seem a little stretched to guard your long borders. I'll be interested to see how this develops.

    Also a question. How did you get those Roman soldiers? Were they levied from the remaining Romans in Karalis or is there some other way to get them? Either way, they look cool and rather unique in Carthage colours. A fine addition.

    All the Best,

    Welsh Dragon.

  16. #216
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: New Town (Carthage AAR) [updated October 19, 2019]

    Thank you for your kind comments!

    Quote Originally Posted by Welsh Dragon View Post
    So the the Civil War is over, but many threats still remain both within the Carthaginian Empire and beyond its borders. Aegyptos definitely sounds like a strategically important province you can't afford to lose, and in general your forces seem a little stretched to guard your long borders. I'll be interested to see how this develops.
    Yes, Carthage now has the problems which large ancient empires had, includinglong borders and facing threats from different directions. With a civil war, Germanic tribes attacking from the north and new threats from the east, the situation of Admago's Carthage reminds me of the challenges facing Aurelian in the Empire Divided campaign.

    Quote Originally Posted by Welsh Dragon View Post
    Also a question. How did you get those Roman soldiers? Were they levied from the remaining Romans in Karalis or is there some other way to get them? Either way, they look cool and rather unique in Carthage colours. A fine addition.
    Thanks, yes I like the unique look of Carthage's levy Roman legionaries too. As you'll see from the next chapter, the remnant of Rome (now a Carthaginian client state) is expanding into Pannonia and Dacia, so I was able to levy them from there.

  17. #217
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: New Town (Carthage AAR) [updated October 19, 2019]

    Chapter 41
    Our Former Enemies
    by Astarte, daughter of Admago

    “They order every one to carry forth from home for himself provisions for three months, ready ground. They persuade the Rauraci, and the Tulingi, and the Latobrigi, their neighbours, to adopt the same plan, and after burning down their towns and villages, to set out with them: and they admit to their party and unite to themselves as confederates the Boii, who had dwelt on the other side of the Rhine, and had crossed over into the Norican territory, and assaulted Noreia.”
    - Admago, Germanic War (*)

    While Carthage was divided in our civil war between Admago the Shophet and Sanais the usurper, Germanic tribes attacked our northern frontier. We were used to raids, but this attack was different. The tribes were not stealing cattle and slaves and then escaping. They were so determined to take our lands that they burned their villages before they marched. The city of Noreia had high walls, but too few remained to defend them when the enemy arrived. The tribesmen broke through Noreia’s militia and reduced homes and craft-halls to rubble and ashes.

    The tribesmen continued south to attack another city, Segestica. The one army which Admago could spare arrived to find that Segestica’s militia had already been overrun. The enemy’s axemen and swordsmen were running unchecked through the streets, killing and burning.



    The army sent by Admago turned the invaders back, but defeated rather than destroyed them. While our army held Segestica, the Germanic tribes were free to roam and pillage through Carthaginian lands in Pannonia and Illyria.

    Without a strong defence, more cities would have shared the fate of Noreia and Segestica. Our former enemies, the Romans, were more loyal to Carthage than Sanais and his generals. When the Roman Senate in exile, in Karalis on the island of Sardinia, heard of the tribes marching south, they sent Roman legionaries to the northern frontier. While Carthaginians fought each other, Romans defended our lands. Singidun, a walled city east of Segestica, became a Roman colony. In the years that followed, the sons of Romans who had defended our northern frontier served the Carthaginian Empire, some in Roman armies and some as levy troops in Carthaginian armies. They were formidable soldiers, as loyal as Libyans and as skilled as Lusitani.

    Some in the Council were worried, when our armies began to include Roman legionaries. They remembered the Roman uprising against Carthage some years ago when Mascarada was Shophet. We should not forget the Roman rebellion, but we should also remember how the Romans were loyal when Carthaginians fought each other.

    When the civil war ended, and our armies advanced into Germania, Roman legionaries were Admago’s strong right hand. Many Germanic warriors had fallen in their attempt to invade our lands. Carthage had lost men too in our civil war, but soldiers of Rome, Libya, Aegypt, Illyria and the Lusitani were with us.

    Author's Note

    (*) This is actually from Julius Caesar, Gallic War, chapter 5.

    Last edited by Alwyn; November 09, 2019 at 11:16 AM.

  18. #218

    Default Re: New Town (Carthage AAR) [updated November 9, 2019]

    Very nice. The Romans seem to be pretty trusty now, good to see, and the barbarian hordes seem an interesting new enemy.

  19. #219

    Default Re: New Town (Carthage AAR) [updated November 9, 2019]

    Very cool indeed! And it is cool to see that you can levy troops from a vassal state. Is this something that you can do specifically because Rome is allied with you, or are you making use of some AoR mechanics in the game (I don't know Rome II, so I have no idea if AoR is a thing or not)? At any rate, a good update, and I feel like it is the beginning of a new arc in the story, with the Germanic tribes being the new "baddies", something that sounds promising to me!
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  20. #220
    Turkafinwë's Avatar The Sick Baby Jester
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    Default Re: New Town (Carthage AAR) [updated November 9, 2019]

    The Empire of Carthage seems stronger than ever in its unity, its different peoples contributing to its survival in the civil war and now against German invasion.

    inspired by Kilo's comment
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitchell and Webb
    Hans ..... are we the baddies?

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