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Thread: The ANNO DOMINI project - a crossover of gaming and historiography

  1. #1
    Dominick's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default The ANNO DOMINI project - a crossover of gaming and historiography



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Greetings, traveler.

    Welcome to the Anno Domini project thread on Total War Center.

    This project started in early 2018 and consists of two main components:
    - Anno Domini Encyclopedia, promoting the written works of students and professionals about our researched area and time period;
    - Anno Domini 973, modification of the PC strategy game Medieval II Total War: Kingdoms.


    Anno Domini is organized by Association “Gromovnik”, a Croatian non-profit association which specializes in research and popularization of Croatian, European and Mediterranean medieval history.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    The Anno Domini project, being a completely voluntary endeavour, had some setbacks, in terms of available manpower and required skills, but, hereby I raise an effort to continue this project, and have been working on it quietly in the shadows more actively from the beginning of this year, alongside some members of our research team.

    The researched period (to be presented in the Medieval II Total War: Kingdoms modification) spans from the year 973 AD: marking the establishment of Cairo in Egypt as the new capital of the Fatimid Caliphate, as well as the death of emperor Otto I, sparking a civil war in the Holy Roman Empire; to the year 1147 AD: marking the start of the Second Crusade, called due to the fall of the County of Edessa to the forces of the Turkic ruler Zengi.

    The following map shows the current area covered by the project:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    The link in the lower left corner isn’t working at the moment, but it should soon enough.



    The states and peoples marked on the map represent starting factions in Anno Domini 973, the Medieval II Total War: Kingdoms modification, as well as states to be covered by our Anno Domini Encyclopedia. The area covered by this map is the same area covered by the future campaign map of Anno Domini 973.

    The idea of professional historiography works is to provide historical basis for representation in Anno Domini 973, as well as serve a purpose of their own: to cover the history of our researched area and period in an academic manner. These essays will be featured in Anno Domini 973 as descriptions, so they will also promote historiography itself.

    To have a better grasp of geopolitics of the area and the period around the starting date, I absolutely recommend the following YouTube video:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1jJo54V1lc

    Minor historical corrections:
    - Otto II, king of Germany* (not West Francia),
    - trebuchets didn’t exist in any form until the 12th century.


    Here is the current list of factions to be portrayed in Anno Domini 973 (subject to minor changes):
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Playable factions

    Starting (21):

    Holy Roman Empire
    Lutici Federation
    Duchy of Bohemia
    Kingdom of Arles
    Republic of Venice
    Republic of Pisa
    Principality of Benevento
    Roman Empire
    Zirid Emirate
    Fatimid Caliphate
    Emirate of Aleppo
    Rawwadid Emirate
    Kingdom of Armenia
    Georgia (Kingdom of Tao)
    Bulgaria
    Dioclea
    Kingdom of Croatia
    Hungary
    Poland
    Rus’
    Pechenegs

    Non-playable factions

    Starting (5):

    Kingdom of Denmark
    Kingdom of France
    Papal States
    Buyid Emirates
    Independent Sovereignties (rebels)

    Emerging (4):

    Cumans
    Normans (House of Hauteville)
    Seljuk Empire
    Western Crusaders

    Miscellaneous (1):

    Script faction slot (used for in-game scripts)

    Total: 31 (maximum possible number of factions in the Medieval II Total War engine)


    Previously, the following area and states were to be portrayed, but some parts were cut (for now) due to Medieval II engine restrictions and the wish to portray some parts of the original area in greater detail, without diminishing the details of other parts. If Medieval II Total War gets a remaster and this project is successful, we could expand the map back to its full extent.

    The future campaign map (primary extent) will be made with the possibility to fit it in the full extent map:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    The link in the lower left corner isn’t working at the moment, but it should soon enough.


    Anno Domini 973 goals for version 1.0 (subject to change):
    - new campaign map,
    - implementation of new factions with historical starting family trees and starting positions,
    - overhauled unit rosters (reliant on units from other mods),
    - updated UI and campaign map graphics (reliant on graphics from other mods),
    - emerging and reemerging faction scripts,
    - implementation of campaign and battle AI mods,
    - implementation of battle animation mods,
    - some other things I (or we) could add along the way.

    As you can see, the updated modification goal bar is set lower than before and you may ask why... Well, right now, the modification part of the project is a one-man show. I am currently the only person working on the Anno Domini 973 (modification) aspect. The modification idea was ditched previously and I am basically trying to resurrect it.

    It is my personal goal to make a working version of this modification, and so I will, alone or with friends I (or we) make along the way. If you want to help me with the modification aspect of this project in any way, feel free to contact me here on TWC, my e-mail (dominik.pesut@gmail.com) or personal Facebook account (you will recognize me by Association “Gromovnik”’s cover image).

    Right now I could use some help with scouting some existing faction rosters from other mods, implementing factions in the different text files and similar preparation works while I’m working on some other things for the project and on the new campaign map.


    Now, for some good news and announcements considering the Anno Domini Encyclopedia side of things, here is a sneak peek of the homepage of the new Gromovnik website we are developing:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    In Association “Gromovnik”, we are planning an online medieval history journal that would also include Anno Domini essays. This means they would be featured in the modification, the website and the journal. The Anno Domini research team is rather functional, we have about 10 essays that are finished or need to be updated, a review team and the journal has its own tasked editorial team. As soon as we finish the website (I need to bother some people that are helping me with it some more), we should be able to put the finished essays online, as well as competitions for new works to be written by historians and alike.

    I will share the competition for Anno Domini essays here as soon as it is on our new website, so maybe someone from here could help us that way as well.

    I will be updating this post in the future with all the new details. If you like this project, subscribe to the thread, and like us on Facebook (http://fb.me/AnnoDominiProject).

    For any questions or comments, please leave a post in the thread or send me a message somewhere (I've written down my contacts earlier in the thread) and I will reply as soon as possible. Posts in the thread are more than welcome, as they will perpetuate interest in the project on Total War Center.

    All the best and until next time,
    Dominik
    Last edited by Dominick; April 02, 2021 at 08:54 AM. Reason: Updated information about the project and its development.
    Dominik Pešut,
    President of Association "Gromovnik" & Project Leader of Anno Domini,
    mag. educ. geogr. et hist.



  2. #2

    Default Re: ANNO DOMINI 1000, Europe and Middle East to Baghdad, historicity and gameplay, extensive historiographical work.

    Hi! Do you have a special map in mind? How much territory do you plan to cover?

  3. #3
    Dominick's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: ANNO DOMINI 1000, Europe and Middle East to Baghdad, historicity and gameplay, extensive historiographical work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Clay View Post
    Hi! Do you have a special map in mind? How much territory do you plan to cover?
    Hi there.

    As I've described, it would be similar to the vanilla M2TW borders of continents, only without Americas, maybe a little bit moved to the north towards Iceland and losing some of the desert in Africa. From Ireland to Baghdad, however on a larger scale (the vanilla map is too tiny).
    Dominik Pešut,
    President of Association "Gromovnik" & Project Leader of Anno Domini,
    mag. educ. geogr. et hist.



  4. #4
    Dominick's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: ANNO DOMINI 1000, Europe and Middle East to Baghdad, historicity and gameplay, extensive historiographical work.

    Update:

    We've gathered a team of 8 people outside Total War Center for now, we have a 3d modeller & texture artist, sound editor & music composer, a scripter and a small team of researchers. We plan to continue promoting our idea and expand our team.

    If there is anyone interested in working with us, be sure to send me a message.
    We are looking for code writers, artists/graphical designers, map makers/editors, history researchers/historiographers (possibly also fluent in other languages except English) and an English proofreader.

    Cheers!
    Dominik Pešut,
    President of Association "Gromovnik" & Project Leader of Anno Domini,
    mag. educ. geogr. et hist.



  5. #5

    Default Re: ANNO DOMINI 1000, Europe and Middle East to Baghdad, historicity and gameplay, extensive historiographical work.

    Religion changes (to a degree). I've seen the team at The Last Kingdom do that for the Normans using a .bat file.
    I don't know what you mean by using a bat.file for religion changes but this is all done in the campaign script.

    Having scripted Family Members being born if the historical conditions are met. If the right person is married to the right person, they should have their historical children born at their estimated years of birth.
    You can't do that unfortunatly. The closest thing would be to spawn the historical character at the estimated date of his manhood time via a hidden faction pool as explained here, then give it to the faction it is supposed to belong but you can't script new childrens past the starting date.
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=485535


    A word on map, don't underestimate the vanilla map scale, if you fill it well it's not so tiny, and the ai work better that way rather than on too big regions spreaded for a supposetly bigger world that might be eye candy at first but harmful to the gameplay.

    Full history and med2 engine don't go hand in hand. It's adapting what you can of history to the engine, not the other way around or you might be disapointed.

    Which doesn't mean that some innovative ways and new ideas can't be achieved because med2 scripting is full of possible tricks, and it's engine not so limited than what some popular legends like to say, simply this isn't the good game for a too detailled reproduction of history, if there is such a other game.

  6. #6
    Dominick's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: ANNO DOMINI 1000, Europe and Middle East to Baghdad, historicity and gameplay, extensive historiographical work.

    I don't know what you mean by using a bat.file for religion changes but this is all done in the campaign script.
    I believe you can only convert one faction through an event, I remember seeing a discussion about that somewhere. The Last Kingdom used a .bat file to change the value of the religion of Normans from Paganism to Christianity in the script when the according event happened, and then the player has to revert that using a different .bat file when starting a new game. Someone correct me if I got the concept wrong.

    You can't do that unfortunatly. The closest thing would be to spawn the historical character at the estimated date of his manhood time via a hidden faction pool as explained here, then give it to the faction it is supposed to belong but you can't script new childrens past the starting date.
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=485535
    That is truly disappointing. Well I guess we'll only have William Wallace-like spawns then. We are able to have a few different Family Trees within a faction? Scotland has that feature in Kingdoms. However, does the faction get destroyed when the adult men die in the main family tree?

    A word on map, don't underestimate the vanilla map scale, if you fill it well it's not so tiny, and the ai work better that way rather than on too big regions spreaded for a supposetly bigger world that might be eye candy at first but harmful to the gameplay.
    Hmm, I don't recall experiencing that using all the different mods. However, we will be using a lot more regions than there is on the vanilla map, so I suppose gameplay shouldn't be badly affected if we fill in the new space with new regions and settlements.

    Full history and med2 engine don't go hand in hand. It's adapting what you can of history to the engine, not the other way around or you might be disapointed.
    I am aware of that, but it is the best Total War title for customization as far as I know (custom campaign maps and settlements f. e.). Other strategy games I am aware of don't have both turn based campaigns and real time battles.

    Which doesn't mean that some innovative ways and new ideas can't be achieved because med2 scripting is full of possible tricks, and it's engine not so limited than what some popular legends like to say, simply this isn't the good game for a too detailled reproduction of history, if there is such a other game.
    That is why I hope we can get more experienced scripters in the Med 2 engine into our team.

    Thank you for your constructive critique!
    Dominik Pešut,
    President of Association "Gromovnik" & Project Leader of Anno Domini,
    mag. educ. geogr. et hist.



  7. #7

    Default Re: ANNO DOMINI 1000, Europe and Middle East to Baghdad, historicity and gameplay, extensive historiographical work.

    I believe you can only convert one faction through an event, I remember seeing a discussion about that somewhere. The Last Kingdom used a .bat file to change the value of the religion of Normans from Paganism to Christianity in the script when the according event happened, and then the player has to revert that using a different .bat file when starting a new game. Someone correct me if I got the concept wrong.
    Well my experience in playing other's mods is very limited, but I don't see why they would have done that if we speak of the same thing? For example:
    Code:
    monitor_event FactionTurnEnd FactionType england
    
    
    if not I_LocalFaction england
    and I_SettlementOwner Batavodurum = england
    and I_EventCounter belgae_germanic > 3
    
    
    change_population_religion england egiziana 50 pagan
    set_religion england egiziana
    historic_event placeholder
    end_if
    end_monitor
    A sample from scripts of mine converting a belgae faction (england in internal scripts) to germanic culture/religion, and a percentage of their celtic population, if some conditions are met without need of bat files manipulation by the player. Reversal or yet other conversions are possible with the same kind of scripts.

    That is truly disappointing. Well I guess we'll only have William Wallace-like spawns then. We are able to have a few different Family Trees within a faction? Scotland has that feature in Kingdoms. However, does the faction get destroyed when the adult men die in the main family tree?
    Disapointing, the word is weak I know. But yes you can have several families or branches within a faction at start if you want, or it will likely happen later with marriages and such. The faction don't get destroyed as long it has at least a settlement, and a leader/heir. Any family member (general in the tree) can become leader or heir, regardless of his place, son of king or son of a distant cousin, it's the authority level that decide who will be heir, then leader in most cases.
    There are good tutorials on these.

    About the ai, well it's not that simple and it depend on more than that, like the number of characters movement points, and the ai core files. Depends on the modder vision, you might say. It's just that whenever possible, avoid too wide accessible region too isolated from the others, in general.
    Me, I find it already hard to be happy with only 199 regions to distribute on a vanilla map scale, but others seems less maniac than me on this.

    All my wishes of making something that please you at any rate. It is what matter, that it please you first.

  8. #8
    Dominick's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: ANNO DOMINI 1000, Europe and Middle East to Baghdad, historicity and gameplay, extensive historiographical work.

    Well my experience in playing other's mods is very limited, but I don't see why they would have done that if we speak of the same thing?
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...467876-Normans

    Overriding - some - limits.

    Disapointing, the word is weak I know. But yes you can have several families or branches within a faction at start if you want, or it will likely happen later with marriages and such. The faction don't get destroyed as long it has at least a settlement, and a leader/heir. Any family member (general in the tree) can become leader or heir, regardless of his place, son of king or son of a distant cousin, it's the authority level that decide who will be heir, then leader in most cases.
    There are good tutorials on these.
    Is it possible to show all the family trees via the Family Tree display?

    About the ai, well it's not that simple and it depend on more than that, like the number of characters movement points, and the ai core files. Depends on the modder vision, you might say. It's just that whenever possible, avoid too wide accessible region too isolated from the others, in general.
    Me, I find it already hard to be happy with only 199 regions to distribute on a vanilla map scale, but others seems less maniac than me on this.
    We will very probably maximize the limit, however if you've seen some of the newer mods/submods, they've changed permanent stone forts to small towns with names so I'd love to implement that into our mod as well to give it a deeper feeling of historicity and life.


    All my wishes of making something that please you at any rate. It is what matter, that it please you first.
    Thank you! If you'd like to join our effort you'd be more than welcome, even as just an advisor.
    Last edited by Dominick; January 08, 2018 at 01:21 PM.
    Dominik Pešut,
    President of Association "Gromovnik" & Project Leader of Anno Domini,
    mag. educ. geogr. et hist.



  9. #9

    Default Re: ANNO DOMINI 1000, Europe and Middle East to Baghdad, historicity and gameplay, extensive historiographical work.

    That's interesting, but this is about something else than the religion conversion in itself. Like I said, scripts are enough to change religions, I would have to look, which I have no time for these days, but it seem they used this bat.file trick to change things like characters titles, or some other faction's details that indeed can't be changed via scripts. Factions rosters, or units availability, which is the same, can be changed via scripts and event counters linked in the EDB and descr_mercenaries however.

    Is it possible to show all the family trees via the Family Tree display?
    Yes, but it would be more appropriate to speak of linked separate branches rather than real separate families.
    For example, you can't have "patriarch 1", "patriarch 2" and "patriarch 3" starting at the top of your family tree with their family members completely disconected.
    I am not too meticulous about this kind of display detail but here is a good tutorial, explaining better than me:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=187293


    We will very probably maximize the limit, however if you've seen some of the newer mods/submods, they've changed permanent stone forts to small towns with names so I'd love to implement that into our mod as well to give it a deeper feeling of historicity and life.
    I know this use of permanent forts, I used it too before starting to get on ai work and seeing that forts are a major landmine to the best ai defense parameter, sabotage is a accurate word for what happen then. Forts are a tricky thing because of this, even the destroyable, depending if the ai have some of them near cities or possibly accessible territories.
    But you will see what you want yourself.

    I am busy achieving my own 'dream' mod, and I am too self-interested to be a good team mate anyway, but I try to help in the workshop when I can. Again, good luck to you and your team.

  10. #10
    Vladyvid's Avatar Wizard of Turmish
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    Default Re: ANNO DOMINI 1000, Europe and Middle East to Baghdad, historicity and gameplay, extensive historiographical work.

    Good luck Dominik. You can probably find a lot of helpful resources from other mods for this time period, that can speed up things.






  11. #11
    Dominick's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: ANNO DOMINI 1000, Europe and Middle East to Baghdad, historicity and gameplay, extensive historiographical work.

    Yes, but it would be more appropriate to speak of linked separate branches rather than real separate families.
    For example, you can't have "patriarch 1", "patriarch 2" and "patriarch 3" starting at the top of your family tree with their family members completely disconected.
    I am not too meticulous about this kind of display detail but here is a good tutorial, explaining better than me:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=187293
    This is what I had in mind:
    https://imgur.com/a/YZyvs

    I am busy achieving my own 'dream' mod, and I am too self-interested to be a good team mate anyway, but I try to help in the workshop when I can. Again, good luck to you and your team.
    Thank you very much, good luck to you too then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladyvid View Post
    Good luck Dominik. You can probably find a lot of helpful resources from other mods for this time period, that can speed up things.
    Thank you very much! Yes indeed, I'll have to look around for a good campaign map (with us editing map_regions) if I could get the permission for using one, that would really help us out a lot.
    Last edited by Dominick; January 10, 2018 at 08:03 PM.
    Dominik Pešut,
    President of Association "Gromovnik" & Project Leader of Anno Domini,
    mag. educ. geogr. et hist.



  12. #12

    Default Re: ANNO DOMINI 1000, Europe and Middle East to Baghdad, historicity and gameplay, extensive historiographical work.

    Looks very promising!

  13. #13
    Dominick's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: ANNO DOMINI 1000, Europe and Middle East to Baghdad, historicity and gameplay, extensive historiographical work.

    Update on the progress of the project:
    We're still gathering team members and support, but we're going to have a 10+ history researchers meeting in Zagreb and over Discord in early March to discuss the research plan, guidelines and rules.
    I'll personally take on creating an as beautiful and detailed as possible campaign map of Europe, North Africa and Middle East (to Baghdad) during the course of March using the most detailed geographical sources I will be able to put my hands on as a student of geography (and history). The aim is to have finished preview historiographical works and segments of the campaign map for early April (without map_regions just yet) to present at the International Students of History seminar in Maribor and Graz together with the whole concept of the project.
    We are also probably going to move and shorten the period used in the (first) modification to around 980 AD to a point in the 12th century to widen our possibilites in better representing history in the taken period due to the engine limits (the one causing us concern being the faction limit) while exploring the prechristian European cultures a bit better (different sorts of paganism - having the player be able to play as pagan Kievan Rus, Hungary or Norway (and Sweden)).
    We should have an official Croatian (.hr) domain for a website for this project and the NGO we're going to get that through in May.

    Nothing else comes to mind now, I hope I've raised some more hopes for our project and if there's anyone that might want to join us in our effort or if you know someone that would, please feel free to contact me!

    Cheers!


    Quote Originally Posted by AleksiMizaro View Post
    Looks very promising!
    Thank you my friend!

    Oh and by the way, Aleksi has expressed his will to help us with balancing for our modification, feel free to view info on his M2TW (+Kingdoms) multiplayer balance modification Igni Ferroque which I dearly recommend here (have to return the favour!):
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-%26%239876%3B
    Dominik Pešut,
    President of Association "Gromovnik" & Project Leader of Anno Domini,
    mag. educ. geogr. et hist.



  14. #14
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: ANNO DOMINI 1000, Europe and Middle East to Baghdad, historicity and gameplay, extensive historiographical work.

    This mod starts in 1015: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post14831795

    You can also set the starting date of the Chivalry II very early, I don't remember when.
    Mod leader of the SSHIP: traits, ancillaries, scripts, buildings, geography, economy.
    ..............................................................................................................................................................................
    If you want to play a historical mod in the medieval setting the best are:
    Stainless Steel Historical Improvement Project and Broken Crescent.
    Recently, Tsardoms and TGC look also very good. Read my opinions on the other mods here.
    ..............................................................................................................................................................................
    Reviews of the mods (all made in 2018): SSHIP, Wrath of the Norsemen, Broken Crescent.
    Follow home rules for playing a game without exploiting the M2TW engine deficiencies.
    Hints for Medieval 2 moders: forts, merchants, AT-NGB bug.
    Thrones of Britannia: review, opinion on the battles, ideas for modding. No good mod yet, alas!
    Dominant strategy in Rome2, Attila, ToB and Troy: “Sniping groups of armies”. Still there, alas!

  15. #15
    Dominick's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: ANNO DOMINI 1000, Europe and Middle East to Baghdad, historicity and gameplay, extensive historiographical work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    This mod starts in 1015: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post14831795

    You can also set the starting date of the Chivalry II very early, I don't remember when.
    The historical research team is in the works, according to my surface but wide research of the situation in the period the starting date is moved to 973. However, the starting date itself won't be the only feature of our mod/project.

    Expect historiographical essay and physical geography campaign map reviews in the next months.

    Dominik
    Dominik Pešut,
    President of Association "Gromovnik" & Project Leader of Anno Domini,
    mag. educ. geogr. et hist.



  16. #16

    Default Re: ANNO DOMINI 1000, Europe and Middle East to Baghdad, historicity and gameplay, extensive historiographical work.

    Excellent stuff

    However, I do have a few suggestions;

    1) Why not an overhaul of an already existing mod?


    It would be much, much easier for you to create a mod overhaul if you used an already existing build.

    The Stainless Steel mod;
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forum...tainless-Steel
    has already done an incredible amount of work advancing vanilla M2TW that it feels like a newer release of the game.

    IMO, it would be better if you build your own mod on top of it, like the SSHIP and Titanium mod teams did;
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forum...?1983-Titanium
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forum...roject-(SSHIP)


    2) If you are doing an earlier era, why start so close to the original M2TW start date of 1080?

    Why not push the date back to 900AD? 925 if you wish to be focused on Croatia being a kingdom.

    This offers a scenario that is properly separated from the early era that M2TW and a lot of other mods start.

    3) Use the map from Titanium

    This is the map from Titanium, a further improvement over an already massively improved Stainless Steel campaign map;
    https://i.imgur.com/Wp0CscY.jpg

    By asking for permission to use these materials you could start your mod development with an already mostly done map and overhaul base, so you could immediately focus on your own scenario, saving you months of work.

    That is at least my opinion.

    Best regards

  17. #17
    Dominick's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: ANNO DOMINI 1000, Europe and Middle East to Baghdad, historicity and gameplay, extensive historiographical work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamlaz View Post
    Excellent stuff

    However, I do have a few suggestions;

    1) Why not an overhaul of an already existing mod?


    It would be much, much easier for you to create a mod overhaul if you used an already existing build.

    The Stainless Steel mod;
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forum...tainless-Steel
    has already done an incredible amount of work advancing vanilla M2TW that it feels like a newer release of the game.

    IMO, it would be better if you build your own mod on top of it, like the SSHIP and Titanium mod teams did;
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forum...?1983-Titanium
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forum...roject-(SSHIP)


    2) If you are doing an earlier era, why start so close to the original M2TW start date of 1080?

    Why not push the date back to 900AD? 925 if you wish to be focused on Croatia being a kingdom.

    This offers a scenario that is properly separated from the early era that M2TW and a lot of other mods start.

    3) Use the map from Titanium

    This is the map from Titanium, a further improvement over an already massively improved Stainless Steel campaign map;
    https://i.imgur.com/Wp0CscY.jpg

    By asking for permission to use these materials you could start your mod development with an already mostly done map and overhaul base, so you could immediately focus on your own scenario, saving you months of work.

    That is at least my opinion.

    Best regards
    1) As an NGO project we don't want to piggyback on a modification, we're already piggybacking on M2TW. We can use what we deem good in our own modification by crediting the creators (or by asking them if it is necessary) and by incorporating it into our own codes.

    2) The situation with most of the playable factions is stable in that period (973 AD). On the other hand, we want to include the Crusades.

    3) Doesn't fit what we need. I'm using QGIS and (for now) vector (shape) files that I will convert from qgs to tga files for most of the work.

    I was never completely satisfied with the state of any of the mods (SSHIP comes as best) and starting a modification from scratch seems to be the best option since this is a historiography-heavy (together with other human and interdisciplinary sciences) mod in a different period from most mods, and as previously mentioned, part of a future NGO project.

    Here's a little eye candy:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Thank you for your reply.

    Best regards,

    Dominik
    Dominik Pešut,
    President of Association "Gromovnik" & Project Leader of Anno Domini,
    mag. educ. geogr. et hist.



  18. #18

    Default Re: ANNO DOMINI 1000, Europe and Middle East to Baghdad, historicity and gameplay, extensive historiographical work.

    Well, as you wish.

    It will take you far more work this way.

    But if you see this as doable, why not try.


    As with the startdate, 973 AD will still feature most of the same factions, yet you lose some interesting ones like the Khazars, Great Moravia, Kingdom of Italy, etc.

    I still think the closer you pick the date to 900AD the better.

    Best regards

  19. #19
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: ANNO DOMINI 1000, Europe and Middle East to Baghdad, historicity and gameplay, extensive historiographical work.

    I do share the opinion of Mamlaz. I think that using another mod as a base is a way of "standing on the shoulder of the giants" - like the previous developers of the SS/SSHIP (me, I was not the part of the team). I think you may start any year you want, develop the maps with any region you need to, create your own units etc etc but you'd better take the "mechanics of the gameplay" from the a developed mod, eg:
    - CAI including diplomacy behavior
    - economy and settlement management
    - recruitment system (from various buildings, or from a specialized "feudal" system, or AoR like etc.);
    - BAI and behavior of the soldiers in the battles (you know well that without Germanicus RBAI there's little sense to play a mod);
    - scripts related to everything (look at these made for the Broken Crescent);
    - traits.

    I think you risk ending like dozens of the other mods that failed in the past. Just read something from this tread - this is the recent failure I'm aware of. Tsardoms or The Great Conflicts are being in development for years and I have little hope they'll ever see the sun. My opinion is that "If you create everything from scratch, you'll need another 10 years to fine-tune all the details."

  20. #20
    Dominick's Avatar Ordinarius
    Join Date
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    Default Re: ANNO DOMINI 1000, Europe and Middle East to Baghdad, historicity and gameplay, extensive historiographical work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    I think you may start any year you want, develop the maps with any region you need to, create your own units etc etc but you'd better take the "mechanics of the gameplay" from the a developed mod, eg:
    - CAI including diplomacy behavior
    - economy and settlement management
    - recruitment system (from various buildings, or from a specialized "feudal" system, or AoR like etc.);
    - BAI and behavior of the soldiers in the battles (you know well that without Germanicus RBAI there's little sense to play a mod);
    - scripts related to everything (look at these made for the Broken Crescent);
    - traits.
    Didn't say we wouldn't, as a matter of fact, I have a list of things from other modifications I'd like to be implemented in our modification.

    I think you risk ending like dozens of the other mods that failed in the past. Just read something from this tread - this is the recent failure I'm aware of. Tsardoms or The Great Conflicts are being in development for years and I have little hope they'll ever see the sun. My opinion is that "If you create everything from scratch, you'll need another 10 years to fine-tune all the details."
    That's a risk I'm willing to take. Not everything will be made from scratch, but everything will be redesigned and implemented in a way we want it, so why even bother using a mod skeleton as a base if we're going to modify it by a large degree anyway? We will mix and match things from a lot of different mods, why use Stainless Steel if it's missing half the factions we're going to feature, and that the factions are to a large degree designed unhistorically (mono or bicolored rosters f.e.)? SSHIP f.e. starts when our mod is about to end. And something you're forgetting is that this aims at a larger audience, so installing a game, expansions, a mod, patches, and then a submod, patches again, doesn't seem like the most simple option. We want to simplify this procedure as much as possible to be easier for f.e. a doctor of history to play it or a high school student that never played M2TW before. We don't want to piggyback where we don't need to, this project is an interest of more than the M2TW community, it is a history and historiography promotion project and an educational tool.

    Best regards,
    Dominik Pešut

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