[The Elder Scrolls - Unofficial Patch 1.42] Black Drake

[Chieftain Khuzaymah]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Wol...ew?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vde...ew?usp=sharing

Hlaalu up
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eVe...ew?usp=sharing

[jimmy_dude]

I'm opposed, this clearly just seems like you guys are once again adding a rule specifically because you made a mistake leaving Brokil out in the open and are trying to avoid us using him against you. It also wouldn't change much since it just means more reloading work to get results where units survive but aren't necessarily captured. Maybe in the future when adding this rule wouldn't have a clear affect on something in the game I'd be in favor of adding this, but right now it's clearly only helping you guys if we add it in this current situation.

[jimmy_dude]

Also, checked the rules updates you added to the OP, I don't think we ever all agreed that occupying allied settlements has to adhere to the warzone rules, and Norway never really indicated that it should be covered by the rules. Is there a reason you added it anyways, or did I miss something? I'd like to have this clarified before I play since knowing this affects the hlaalu turn a lot.

[Jadli]

there you go jimmy, read the previous messages by cap

Taking allied settlements will count as a trade.
Exploiting this for money/missions/generating_armies/other_exploits is not allowed.

Also, besieging a settlement to deny the enemy from besieging it isn't allowed. I believe this is within the Exploit list, if not it should be known a well known exploit for everyone here.

Anyways, if you think that defeating a guy with a very few bodyguards (last turn he had 1, not sure how many replenished), releasing him, defeating again etc.. about a half dozen times or more, to make him retreat across half Skyrim to get him where you want is not an exploit of the game mechanics, then I dont know what is (still dont even know how it could possibly help you, but that you are even going to attempt that is fairly disturbing). With this mindset we can really just end the HS right now.

Good luck reloading victories without any casaultaties to enemy side.

Selaska will help out as admin, rep to him

[jimmy_dude]

Ok, the trade stuff makes sense, fair enough. Just wanted to clarify and make sure you weren't just adding stuff to the rules without having an official decision and agreement.

My point, as always, is everything in hotseats are to some extent exploiting the game mechanics. Deal with it. You guys have yet to respond to this I believe. You can't just ban stuff because you decided it "wasn't fair" or it was "too exploitative" just to get yourselves out of a situation that you put yourselves in. That's just lame. This has been like if we were playing chess, and while you are winning, I keep coming up with clever tactics that are completely legal according to the rules that get me back in the game, and then you just say "that's not fair, you're not allowed to do that" and somehow I'm not allowed to do it every time...

Also, on the mindset thing, I spoke to you (Jadli) at length in dms about this. My mindset here isn't changing, but knowing that, if you want to end this hs with no winners, I'd be fine with that as well.

Thanks Saleska for stepping in here, and good luck, this one seems to be a doozy!

[Isenbard]

Release exploit sounds so scummy though. Wouldn't wish that to be how Skyrim gets taken.
Perhaps it should not be allowed to attack an army again if you have released the captives? Otherwise it's fine, if for nothing else than rp reasons, though if the distinction is too cloudy then it's shouldn't be a big deal to ban it. Very anti-Geneve convention or whatever it's called.

Also I suggest a new rule: If you mention ending the hotseat you get kicked out . This can't be your bargaining chip every time something happens. That is the biggest problem here when it comes to "mindsets".

[Mergor]

One thing to note: Releasing prisoners on its own is not an exploit. Releasing prisoners to aid in something else can be called an exploit, but, and just for once believe me when I say that I don't claim this for selfish reasons, constantly trying to ducktape new rules into the ruleset and calling out any and every move in the name of "playing nice" is as harmful, if not more harmful to the hotseat than "not playing nice."

[Jadli]

I said attacking released prisoners (or rather, releasing them just for the sole purpose of attacking enemy numerous times), not necessarily releasing prisoners itself... (but of course, since this is a team HS at this point, there is not really a point to release prisoners anyway)

[saleska2]

Damn it has been a while since I have used this forum. It has also been forever since I have last been admin.

This HS seems to be mostly be a discussion for what does and what does not qualify as an exploit. I already know for a fact that no matter what I say I am bound to get someone mad. I am considering a couple of ways to approach this but until then keep playing. If something stupid comes up just contact me and ill tell you how to proceed with the turn.

[saleska2]

So I thought about this for a while and I have decided the following.

-No further gameplay rules will be added, this means that for example the "release exploit" will be allowed for all parties. I do condemn the use of these dirty tricks but if you cant win without them I suppose you are free to use them. All rules that are currently in play will be enforced, if something about these rules is unclear then just message me. Captainnorways latest rule about moving units gotten through missions will go into effect at the start of Skyrims next turn.

-Discussing rules here will be banned from turn 90 and onwards. Its just a pointless back and forth, if you want to discuss rules just contact me.

-Threatening to leave the HS will result in an immediate kick from the HS.

-If drama continues between both alliances in whatever way I will forcefully end this HS on turn 100, or earlier if needed. I will declare a winner then(this would probably be done by me playing all factions for ~15-20 turns and then seeing who wins).

[Jadli]

Turn 90? I assume you meant turn 80? (Now is 79)

-No further gameplay rules will be added, this means that for example the "release exploit" will be allowed for all parties. I do condemn the use of these dirty tricks but if you cant win without them I suppose you are free to use them. All rules that are currently in play will be enforced, if something about these rules is unclear then just message me. Captainnorways latest rule about moving units gotten through missions will go into effect at the start of Skyrims next turn.

This is not necessarily about adding rules, but about clearing out whats en exploit/bug or not. The rules say no bugs/exploits are allowed. You are making this sound like that every exploit/bug not listed in the OP is allowed, which would be quite unfortunate (there are many... some are not listed for a very good reason)... pretty pointless to condemn moves if you intend to do nothing about it... And it has been precedent (which you should follow) from all previous admins, that in unclear cases they decide whether something is a bug/exploit or not, or whether its against the spirit of the rules (which is also quite important)

As long as you emphasize what was emphasized before, i.e., that people must check with admin in case they want to do a move not clearly covered by the rules, to find out whether its deemed an exploit/bug, or against the spirit of the rules, Im fine with this