[The Elder Scrolls - Unofficial Patch 1.42] Black Drake

[Jadli]

Orsimer up https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...rothgar_77.sav

PICS

[Azzar]

sorry, I mixed up threats

[Potatoto]

I dont remember exactly what was the deal here, can you show the post/message when the deal was made Potatoto?

No, because it was PeaMen who made this deal with admin (he captured Almelexia). I know only what he told me. As far as I remember Berry was admin at that time so he should have this message. Also I am not sure it is needed to bring that up as Mergor doesn't seem to question that statament (or am I wrong Mergor?), he just claims he already won even through Talvani house is still alive and thrives.

[Mergor]

Now, I am only speaking out of memory and so I don't present these as facts, but here is what I remember:

Regarding the Three Gods, it was originally agreed, for RP reasons (since the whole civil war started for the Gods being misguided by House Indoril), that the three Gods, if cornered, would not be killed but banished instead. I think this was argued after Sootha-Sil was killed. Almalexia was indeed teleported after her defeat, but we argued about Vivec, since I asked PeaMan to tell me before Vivec (the settlement) is besieged so he can be teleported out. Lot of unnesecarry details in that argument follows, but he was killed too. There wasn't any specific agreement regarding when Almalexia could come back, the assumption was, that if our side wins, but no concrete definition what that was.

The possibility to bring Almalexia back was discussed when the other Houses switched sides (since I considered that our side winning), and Potatoto brought up that it wouldn't be fair to bring Almalexia back as long as Telvanni isn't defeated. The admin did not say anything about this, but I assumed that he would agree that Potatoto is right and so I did not force the issue. I did discuss later with Wolf that I would want to teleport Almalexia back when Telvanni started irreversably crumbling.

My subjective definition of that would be when Telvanni cannot stop the advance and the Tribunal (just Almalexia) can be reinstated without ever fearing a Telvanni attack. When I asked that she be brought back, Wolf checked the map with toggle fow without telling me what he sees, but said that Almalexia can be brought back if she is teleported far away from fighting and I don't use her against Telvanni. And so, that happened. The missing piece is giving Mournhold back, which I promised Jadli we'd do after he brought up the issue now

[Potatoto]

"My subjective definition of that would be when Telvanni cannot stop the advance and the Tribunal (just Almalexia) can be reinstated without ever fearing a Telvanni attack."

That doesn't make any sense because: on base of what you judge "Telvanni cannot stop the advance" or "without ever fearing a Telvanni attack". Either prove it by defeating me and get Almelexia back or you shouldn't get her by the agreed deal. I believe can hold. I am very much alive and and have big elite army. Even your own interpretaction of condition of getting Almelexia hasn't been meet.

I find it deeply unfair that:
1. you got exceptionally, forced by admin chance to save Almelexia purely for RP reasons, but under strict conditions and still you try to evade them.
2. You use RP reasoning when it plays to your advantage (like you can get extra and strong general), but when it is supposed to play into your disadvantage (like forbiding BM to ally VH, or when you are supposed to play your factions separatelly), you openly claim you won't follow RP rules which is very low play. In fact if PeaMen would be also allowed to ignore RP rules same as you do (or rather RP gamestyle as by RP rules it wasn't forbiden to kill mortal gods) then Almelexia would be long gone and that matter wouln't need to be discussed there now.

[Mergor]

I did not personally judge whether the condition to bring back Almalexia was met, Wolf looked at the situation and agreed with me. Although don't blame him if possible, he went with my interpretations and the conditions I remembered without being there when they were originally made. Still, you could argue that when the houses turned on you, the war was technically won and almalexia could be brought back. I delayed asking for that until I believed that you are becoming a zombie faction. You are only as alive as the Tribunal or veiled is. You had to abandon your settlement and you are holed up in Dagoth Ur. You have lost naval supeority and you are probably going to be in irreversible debt if you aren't already. Nevertheless it is subjective what counts as you being defeated, and ultimately it was not me who decided that.

Regarding your other arguments, I was always open to discuss things (because I think I was justified in the things that were not reversed) and I was open to discuss things with a decision made at the end who is right or who isn't. But despite calling for that, it did not happen yet. Likely it won't either, I more or less made my peace with Jadli regarding this

[Jadli]

No, because it was PeaMen who made this deal with admin (he captured Almelexia). I know only what he told me. As far as I remember Berry was admin at that time so he should have this message. Also I am not sure it is needed to bring that up as Mergor doesn't seem to question that statament (or am I wrong Mergor?), he just claims he already won even through Talvani house is still alive and thrives.

Yea, I meant whether there was some very specific condition for her revival, or it was vague... and I guess it was the latter...

Anyway, admin put her back and actually checkd the map (as Mergor says), so I guess thats done

[Potatoto]

"Although don't blame him if possible"

In the light of your comment I see no reason not to blame him as his decision was clearly hasty and reckless. Also relying judgement purely on relation of one intrested side (not even neutral player, but a player who actually gets that general) isn't good either.

"Still, you could argue that when the houses turned on you, the war was technically won and almalexia could be brought back. I delayed asking for that until I believed that you are becoming a zombie faction. You are only as alive as the Tribunal or veiled is. You had to abandon your settlement and you are holed up in Dagoth Ur. You have lost naval supeority and you are probably going to be in irreversible debt if you aren't already. Nevertheless it is subjective what counts as you being defeated, and ultimately it was not me who decided that."

No, defeating is pretty straight and means destroy or force into submission. It doesn't mean put enemy into debt, or make him down to >5 settlements or whatever else. Same I did not asked admin for special character for defeating Tribunal when you became zombie faction and I am pretty sure if I would, you would be arguing that you are not defeated (actually you did already always claiming Tribunal is not defeated and war is not over), now suddenly however it is "subjective" for you how we will define "defeated".

"Anyway, admin put her back and actually checkd the map (as Mergor says), so I guess thats done"

Pls do and untill Mergor or any of his ally put screenshot with ingame message of House Talvani being destroyed don't ever bring that topic up again.

[Mergor]

A great difference between Tribunal and Telvanni is that there were always allies of Tribunal, but Telvanni is alone.

Also, Jadli said that its whatever now, not what you think

And in the end, you'll never see sight of Almalexia or any Tribunal forces. From your perpective, Almalexia was never even there. And ultimately since the condition was vague, you cannot make up a specific one now, either. Whats done is done is done, what remains is giving back Mournhold

[Potatoto]

"A great difference between Tribunal and Telvanni is that there were always allies of Tribunal, but Telvanni is alone."

It changes nothink in regard status of the faction - being defeated or not. You claimed I should be consider already defeated because I am turning into zombie faction yet you all the time disclaimed that Tribunal is defeated even through it is zombie faction as well.

"And in the end, you'll never see sight of Almalexia or any Tribunal forces. From your perpective, Almalexia was never even there."

It changes nothink. Still that you are getting Almelexia back is deeply unfair.

"And ultimately since the condition was vague"

It wasn't. You just twisting it to appear as such. Sides of that deal was (I believe) PeaMen, you and Berry so I believe you yourself have those messages with a deal, but you are just not posting it because the case being unclear there suits your cause.

"Also, Jadli said that its whatever now, not what you think"

That it doesn't bother Jadli, doesn't mean it doesn't bother me.


Also at the end if turning enemy into zombie faction is consider defeating it by the admin interpretaction then I believe I have fair demands to claim special character as Talvani since Tribunal is turned into zombie faction as well.

[Mergor]

You know, you could have went back into the threads and check yourself, but alas, I did it. Turns out it wasn't even Berry who did that, but Ramble. Page 35 of this thread or something. There has been no condition of bringing her back, only that if she does, she loses her special ability. I did check my DM-s with Ramble where I describe the deal with PeaMan, and I've phrased it back than as "until i've won the war, or lost it." I guess the lost it was was about me surrendering to be a "trophy" faction, since a deal like that was possible back then. So it is even more vague now. I can post the picture if needed

[Potatoto]

"Turns out it wasn't even Berry who did that, but Ramble. Page 35 of this thread or something"

That post only speaks that Almelexia is supposed to be teleported insteed of killed. I am talking about actual deal made between PeaMen, you and the admin.

"I can post the picture if needed"

Yes, pls.

[Mergor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...08165918/2.PNG

The other stuff is pretty old at this point. Unfortunately I didn't see the deal with Ramble, I might have talked it over with PeaMan who either deleted his acc / blocked me, or its buried in Jadli-s chat but I would have to scroll a year to get back at that

[Mergor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1134/image.png

Found this too, sorry to miss it

[Ventos Mustel]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MxA...ew?usp=sharing

https://i.gyazo.com/b1aa8de67939757c...33fa78bafd.png

Dres is up in the meantime

[Potatoto]

Ok, so it is clear you can get Almelexia if you win the war. You clearly haven't won it yet as I am alive and well. There is nothink mentioned of condition like "if you almost win, you will control Almelexia city and you promise to not use Almelexia against dunmers then you get her back". Unless you destroy or force me into submission you did not win.

[Mergor]

The part that even Jadli has been underlying is this is that "winning" is vague. TBH neither you or me can decide what that means on a whim, but the admin did believe we won that war at that point

[Isenbard]

Tribunal: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...ribunal_77.sav

[Potatoto]

This is so dumb that you get Almelexia back bypassing condition you had to fullfill in order to recive her back. Thankfully at least Sotha Sil and Vivec got killed so there is no much more of a crap.

[Mergor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...0/BD_BM_77.sav

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...9_11_39_AM.png

Almalexia will be in Tribunals hands the moment Tribunal can accept the diplomatic deal in their next turn