[The Elder Scrolls - Unofficial Patch 1.42] Black Drake

[Jadli]

Nice that you guys are finally communicating humanly about the issue


Yea indeed, I see no issue whatsoever with how the civil war in Morrowind srarted and how it played out, there was a multitude of reasons for the houses to be justified to do it... the houses love slavery and deem argonians inferior, especially Dres and Telvanni, but generaly simply all dunmers (the only time when the dunmers and argonians were allied was due to major outside threats - The Akaviri and Planemeld. There was no such thread in the HS (anymore).Otherwise they were always raiding Blackmarsh for slaves), the lands taken from Dagoth and Ashlanders were kept by The Tribunal, bad communication from the Tribunal afaik and not including the houses in the war efforts/plans in Cyrodiil, Skyrim... And before the Tribunal, they were indeed worshipping the daedric gods, as well as after the Tribunal failed (much later tho, in the 4th era)

The only issue I see there lorewise was that there wasnt a clear concensus on what to do with the mortal gods, which is a whole other story that you guys know more about than me anyway.... That the war may have been started for different reasons than it ended up being is natural course of events, especially in such dramatic events as civil wars... ( they still had several other valid cassus beli at their disposal. And tbh, Hlaalu are the most opportunist house lorewise, so them possibly twisting the parts of the story a bit makes sense anyway . There is a reason Librarian almost win the best diplomat.. or di he win it? dont remember...)

re: Peaman - I personally don't read that as a threat, but a dig at jadli and us, but I do not know the full context, so I may be wrong.

Yea, thas just inside jokes about the events of the hotseat plague, that happened like 3 years ago


At this point we cant really do much about what happened (such as with Skyrim, etc), but at least we are now hopefully finally clear on this (after 40 turns ) and can do better in the turns to come. There indeed are some new things to be made more clear in the rules of next similar HS I suppose....

Just to be sure, I assume nobody has an issue with implicitly adding into the rules thats its forbidden to send money/settlements between the factions you play? (and that you must play your factions separately, especially diplomacy)

[Librarian]

Point of clarification - can we get trade rights with our other faction?

[Librarian]

There is a reason Librarian almost win the best diplomat.. or di he win it? dont remember...)

Wait, that happened?

I was not aware of this! If true, that's quite cool. If it's not, hey ho, I'm pretty proud of my roleplay skills anyway.

[Jadli]

Point of clarification - can we get trade rights with our other faction?

I assume thats fine yea, people regularly accept it without any other diplomatic relations

Wait, that happened?

I was not aware of this! If true, that's quite cool. If it's not, hey ho, I'm pretty proud of my roleplay skills anyway.

Well, I checked, you didnt win, a clouded mind of mine... I dont know if you "almost" won or not as I cant see who voted whom, but several people nominated you for sure... https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...ination-Thread (which is already a succes considering you were playing only in one HS at the time)

[Isenbard]

"Just to be sure, I assume nobody has an issue with implicitly adding into the rules thats its forbidden to send money/settlements between the factions you play? (and that you must play your factions separately, especially diplomacy)"


I have no issue with this, it should be quite clear this being a roleplay hotseat and all that

[PeaMan]

The other morrowind houses made it clear to Redoran they were going on the anti-Tribunal side, and House Redoran effectively said to me "Well, sure, why would I side against 3 other factions? lol, sounds good I'm up for it."
In this instance I did warn that we should move while we have the upper hand and shared fears of the Tribunal attacking us first because I wanted to make sure that he joined our side. But it did not seem to weigh heavily on his decision - he wanted to go the way the wind was blowing.

Now let us speak truth, this is simply not true, the only Dunmer house I was approached by was Hlaalu (you) and I certainly didn’t join because it was 3v1 as you put it. If I remember correctly we made a defensive pact as Tribunal was planning on attacking Dres and I joined the rebellion believing Tribunal would attack us piecemeal.

[Mergor]

Wish ya'll just cited independence as your cassus belli to start with, this whole thing would have been a lot easier with less drama roleplay wise too
But then again, you wouldn't have persuaded Redoran with it.

[Librarian]

Now let us speak truth, this is simply not true, the only Dunmer house I was approached by was Hlaalu (you) and I certainly didn’t join because it was 3v1 as you put it. If I remember correctly we made a defensive pact as Tribunal was planning on attacking Dres and I joined the rebellion believing Tribunal would attack us piecemeal.

Oh yeah, I don't remember that far back very well but everything you were saying is right. Oh yeah, actually looking at the logs you told me Tribunal was planning to attack Dres, which surprised me because I thought I was going to have to convince you. But it turns out I didn't lie or over exaggerate at all and that fear was well founded.

Wish ya'll just cited independence as your cassus belli to start with, this whole thing would have been a lot easier with less drama roleplay wise too
But then again, you wouldn't have persuaded Redoran with it.

Still even then you could just relinquish your control of us and we would have still wanted war. Our factions didn't like the fact you allied with the other races in the first place, and that was essentially the only way to avoid war. That or, giving us a bunch of territory and allowing us to control you somewhat or something. It was a grudge, essentially.

If you had given us independance, we would still at some point need to deal with the Tribunal as you were allies with the argonians. And a different rules shenanigen would take place about whether independance would be allowed in the rules.

[Ural]

https://www.mediafire.com/file/90fuw3snajdi898/Rock_48.sav/file

[Ural]

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[Jadli]

Mergor was questioning why did tke khajiits go into war with the altmer or something like that, so I suppose I should adress it.

Its quite simple, the bosmers were unethically expelled from Valenwood, which is their homeland, and would have been killed, if not offered a shelter in Elweyr. The khajiits have no special love for the bosmers, but seeing how mercilessly was their peaceful neigbor treated for nothing else than lands gain by supremacists within Summerset Kingdom, while the bosmers were orginally a friend to the altmers and they just wanted to tend to their trees, there is no other wiser decision than stand up against the danger. Especially since the traditional royal dynasty is no longer in power in Summerset Isles, and was replaced by the Veiled Heritance that believes in the racial superiority of altmer. And as we saw in Valenwood, the altmers dont intend to isolate themselves in Summerset Isles, but instead intend to defeat other races and enslave them. Considering the political situation and geography, Elsweyr is the easiest next target for the altmers, therefore the khajiits will not wait to be attacked and expelled from their lands similarily as the bosmers, hence Valenwood should be restored, because its better to have a peaceful ally, than a superiority-hungry realm thats just wating for a chance to destroy you.

Playing now, sorry for the delay.

EDIT

Oh, and lest not forget it was you who attacked us... The only reason Pelletine is alive nowadays is because all the cats have been runninng south from Cyrodiil for several turns, and if they have been late just by one turn or two, all the homeland would have fell, and all the cats would have been enslaved, uless exterminated entirely...

[BerryKnight]

Just to be sure, I assume nobody has an issue with implicitly adding into the rules thats its forbidden to send money/settlements between the factions you play? (and that you must play your factions separately, especially diplomacy)

Honestly, I'm surprised this wasn't a staple rule already. Definitely something to remember for the next one.

[Mergor]

The "interesting" thing about this, is that the Summerset dynasty have been trying to secure peaceful relations with the cats for close to ten turns now... So take your propaganda out and throw it in the trash Jadli

"it was you who attacked us" ha-ha-ha-ha. Remember when I was war with the bosmers and you told me. "You can't finish the war, or I'll go to war with you". We remember quite differently.

The Veiled Heritence right now, especially after the expeditionary forces had to go back, is nothing more than a dynasty backed into a corner.

[Jadli]

Wrothgar and Dres up! removed

A letter to Ranser Branquette, King of Rivenspire and Duke of Camlorn:
"Our agents from Ring of Daggers has found out that for several turns you have been been disobeying the orders, and instead you have been sending troops to the opposite direction, to our border, hiding in the woods. Some of your men and siege equipment have been even hiding in our lands close to our settlements. You are therefore accused of treason! If your conscience is clear, and this is doing of your vassals instead, then arrive into Wayrest city to face a fair trial to clear your name. If you refuse to arrive, you will prove yourself to be a traitor, all your lands and titles will be forfeit, your house will be destroyed, and a better house will be found to rule Rivenspire, either house Tamrith or Dorell. To ensure the safety of the realm, the treacherous lord Wylon Montclair, son of your half-brother Phylgeon Branquette, and his army aboard the ship was elimited as a reminder to Rivenspire who rules High Rock!

Signed,
Adrien Guimard-Cumberland, High King of High Rock, King of Bangkorai, a titular king of Stormhaven and lord of Craglorn"

PICS

EDIT

not valid, see new post RP, replaying

[Jadli]

The "interesting" thing about this, is that the Summerset dynasty have been trying to secure peaceful relations with the cats for close to ten turns now... So take your propaganda out and throw it in the trash Jadli

"it was you who attacked us" ha-ha-ha-ha. Remember when I was war with the bosmers and you told me. "You can't finish the war, or I'll go to war with you". We remember quite differently.

The Veiled Heritence right now, especially after the expeditionary forces had to go back, is nothing more than a dynasty backed into a corner.

If you want truly want to back off to your corner, Im sure returning all of Valenwood to its righful owner woudnt be a problem then . And perhaps return the power in Summerset Isles to the royal dynasty so that we can have an actual conversation.

[paladinbob123]

Personally i think its ultra-difficult to get a balance between a role-play scripted hotseat with intense rules to get somesort of immersion[reflecting a fantasyworld based on a game/film], and a competitive hotseat ..its a problem that has been revisited several times on this forum, and in perhaps all cases it has failed, as many people have different ideas on what is the scope and shape of such a hotseat, as opposed to the combative hotseat where most players just want world domination and the destruction of his enemies[which is the case that most players know]. In examination of all the ones we have tried[on this forum], with complex rules trying to obtain that balance, i think most have failed in their aim, as many hotseaters really dont have the time for the immersion and/or only have the barebones time[and commitment]for the combative competitive hotseats they know and love.

i dont want to get involved with either position here, as both mergor and jadli probably have two different ideas of how this type of hotseat should or should not have been played , as will any other player if you asked them....for my part, the clan of crowns had a alliance of sorts with the clan of forebears for around thirty turns or so, a clear opponent in the scope of the rules that jadli had laid out, so i think that it is difficult to blame any players where the ideology is different for all, ...These sorta complex hotseat games, need players with a firm commitment of obtaining what the admin is trying to achieve, which has to be clearly laid out, with rules all agree on...in reflection it is really difficult to get players that are truly committed too such a event as most dont understand/dont have time for/are not really interested in ,such complexities and they just want to play things out . Add in the extra fact that in a large hotseat, the turnover of players leaving and new player jumping in, is sure to change the ideals of the hotseat .

Furthermore, i dont think the future for such large complex hotseats is very bright, and i would perhaps recommend that larger hotseats be kept to a simpler more combative system that people can jump in , with less worry of understanding a listing of rules the admin is trying to achieve......

well thats my ten penny worth

PBOB

[Mergor]

I am sure the same could be said to you, you hold plenty of bosmer lands yourself Jadli.

That said, every negotiation I opened with Valenwood in the matter was shut down by non other than The Kingdom of Valenwood itself. So once again the truth is that I am blamed for something where I don't have a real say at all. That is why I said to staph with the propaganda, haha. If that wasn't enough, I catched you numerous times breaking our treaty by having agents inside my territorry. You even told me you'd leave, only for me to find an assassin in the middle of my Empire. The Veiled Heritence might feel superior, but clearly, its the cats who prove themselves to be inferior by breaking their own words numerous times.

As for the throne, it was the WILL of the previous king to make my dynasty the heirs. As such, my dynasty cannot be contested, especially that Summerset is a loyal partner in this union.

I'll happily open negotiations any time when you stop claiming that that the "evil" altmers are the problem.

[Aexodus]

@paladinbob

I think too many rules makes things a bit confusing yeah. I prefer the style that the Tsardoms game on the hub has (speaking of which, that mod really deserves a TWC hotseat).

[Librarian]

My question to paladinbob, would be how would you draw a line between a what is a roleplay hotseat and what is a competitive hotseat? What is the end state of a roleplay hotseat? Would not a purely roleplay hotseat end up being a conquer all as well? For example if Tribunal forms the ebonheart pact they get special characters - what would you then use those special characts for?

Custom win objectives? Maybe, but if we take a moment to consider what options there are outside of in-game warfare, maybe voting on a king might be a form of alternative victory conditions. However still could be influenced by destroying all enemies who are opposing voters.
First one to get to a place, a collaborate hotseat? maybe. Not sure.
First one to lots of money? Maybe idk.
A lot of these seem to be able to facilitate world domination, and even if not then I don't think many players will want to have hotseats where they just sit put for a while. It would be difficult to work out, imo.
Before hotseats I used to play Roll The Dice forum games which focused heavily on the diplomacy, and also why I am awful at the hotseat combat here. I like the roleplay, but can't compete in the realm of fighting. (I also have a deep burning passionate hatred for "metas" they incentivise really wacky gameplay as well as disadvantaging non-tryhards and people who don't know every new tip and trick.) So yeah.

Also, even if it is a pure roleplay, anything that is around for a bit will have flucutations of activity and commitment, so I wouldn't say that wouldn't solve these problems.

I am sure the same could be said to you, you hold plenty of bosmer lands yourself Jadli.

That said, every negotiation I opened with Valenwood in the matter was shut down by non other than The Kingdom of Valenwood itself. So once again the truth is that I am blamed for something where I don't have a real say at all. That is why I said to staph with the propaganda, haha. If that wasn't enough, I catched you numerous times breaking our treaty by having agents inside my territorry. You even told me you'd leave, only for me to find an assassin in the middle of my Empire. The Veiled Heritence might feel superior, but clearly, its the cats who prove themselves to be inferior by breaking their own words numerous times.

As for the throne, it was the WILL of the previous king to make my dynasty the heirs. As such, my dynasty cannot be contested, especially that Summerset is a loyal partner in this union.

I'll happily open negotiations any time when you stop claiming that that the "evil" altmers are the problem.

1. It's not my fault that the rules say that Valenwood cannot make peace with any other faction that holds territory in Valenwood if they are not my allies (and your rules tell me your faction cannot make allies with other races, meaning that was a dead end.)
2. It also says I cannot make any major political decision without putting down the cormont rebellion which I think was taken by you? How can I play an entire game without major making political decisions?
3. I actually never agreed to your non-aggression pact/miltiary access, I just never replied to you and you assumed I had accepted it and then accused me of breaking the truce when it's very clearly in my rules that I cannot make peace with those who break the Green Pact. And the only explicit section of the green pact that's in the rules itself is the clause about holding lands in Valenwood.
4. That's not even a good Argument, Khajiit will be giving me back lands once we win. They're my allies. You're the one not giving me back lands at all.

So don't go around playing the cry bully. You invade people, you get treated like an invader. That simple.
(You're also essentially playing in-universe Nazis. Maybe these Khajiit and Bosmer might be concerned about this.)

[Mergor]

A quick answer for you Librarian, I, again, didn't claim that I am completely right and you are completely wrong, I claimed that Jadli is doing that, haha. There is some things were we are restricted yes, and I am supposed to play the in universe-nazis, yes, but I am losing my mind over how I am STILL vilified as a PLAYER and not just as a faction after everything I said regarding the Tribunal and Skyrim drama. So if Mr. Jadli starts pumping propaganda out in public where I am blamed for everything, I am going to argue with him.