Wrothgar https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...rothgar_74.sav
Whiterrun, Archen, Fort Sunguard retaken as Wayrest.... All pelletine lands except Torval retaken ... PICS
Do nothing against it (as unfortunately, some factions wouldnt be alive without it at this point, for example Heritance, so its extremely rooted in the current situation))
You cannot move units generated from missions for a turn /se
Units received from a mission may not be used in a battle the turn that they are received
You must disband all units that you receive from missions.
Wrothgar https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...rothgar_74.sav
Whiterrun, Archen, Fort Sunguard retaken as Wayrest.... All pelletine lands except Torval retaken ... PICS
I am the Air Bud of Total War
Turn sent to Mergor. No password
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...2/BD_BM_74.sav
I've completely forgotten about uploading, but Blackmarsh save already in the works
"The Dragon is wise, a sage among the ignorant. He knows not all that glitters is gold."
How so the Heritance was gifted land in Blackmarsh? Kind of missed the point, when the altmer supremacists of Summerset Isles allied themselves with the Ebonheart Pact/Blackmarsh, despite the repeated claims by Mergor and Dragon that their factions are not working together, as the rules are not very open to such an alliance?
Last edited by Jadli; October 02, 2022 at 06:55 AM.
Most Promising Youngblood TATW: Chieftain Khuzaymah
Yup, they do continue to piss on the lore rules, through for everyone it should have been obvious already ealier that VH and BM as cooperating from the get go, that is including decision of BM of atacking Khajits just to support VH. Also it goes to show again how much Mergor's word is worth.
I had a disagreement over the Altmer peace deal with Jadli a while ago. There, I told him that I am not going to care about that particular lore rule as I am dissatisfied with how lore rules are handled. In summary, lore rules should either be fully respected, or not taken into account at all in this endgame. I personally feel like the latter is true. Jadli's attack on Summerset (how it was handled) was anti-roleplay and so is the Cyrodiil being friends with Covenant and cats while they hold their lands. And so, at this point, frankly, I just don't care, as nothing is enforced.
I am willing to "reset" my attitude and go back to how it should be, but that requires that everything that is happening on the map is investigated and fixed if needed. And not by Jadli. As much as he is an expert on the lore, a judge cannot judge their own case, and Jadli I feel is biased here. There needs to be a third party here, someone who has not interacted with this hotseat at all, and is good with lore if we are to fix this, and I suggest that if you want solutions, you help me get someone like that. There are plenty of "meta-gaming" grievens on all sides here, pointing fingers definitely won't fix anything.
Uhm, what? Sounds like you yourself decided to stop respecting the lore rules as your faction would get destroyed otherwise (in a very few turns)
As for other things, it seems you are changing your statements as it suits you. Before you yourself said several times you dont mind the Covenant war against the altmers, but suddenly its anti-lore? The statement and reasons for the war I said when the invasion started has not changed... I said the Covenant would cleanse Summerset Isles of all the supremacists parties that could threaten the human races. The nobility (Percival faction) could have joined us and rule the altmers afterwards... I offered that to him several times... but never got any response, cause you apparently control both factions... you tried to negotiate peace for your and his faction, I told you several times there is no place for your faction in this peace, only for Percival's faction (as yours faction is the "evil" one). So... you got dissatisfied because you are going to lose as Heritance and cant win...? Suddenly its about lore rules I see...
Yep, your attitude should definitely be reset Just let the faction die please, there is no place for it in the Pact. (and there is already enoughy zombie factions in the Pact....)
(and do I need to remind you about how you attempted to directly help Tribunal and Blackmarsh as Heritance like 40 turns ago, when the admin had to intervene to stop it?)
As for Cyrodiil and Elsweyr. The peace between them has been signed like 50 turns ago, ceding the southern Cyrodiil (maybe even with the previous player) in exchange for ending the hostitlies, there has been a very long peace, so not many reasons for them to start fighting now (especially when they are both weak and share many enemies). As for "Empire" vs Covenant, considering he was attacked from all sides and would have died unless he made some ceasefires, while he wasnt able to archieve any victories in the west and was able to retake some land in western Cyrodiil. Afaik, he is now rebuildings for the wars to come, our factions are not friendly (as for the Covenant side at least).
Last edited by Jadli; October 03, 2022 at 12:37 PM.
"In summary, lore rules should either be fully respected, or not taken into account at all in this endgame"
They should be fully respected of course, through it would be bassicly impossible to do it through some strict rule sets, at least I hardly can imagine how such rules would suppose to look exactly.
"I personally feel like the latter is true. Jadli's attack on Summerset (how it was handled) was anti-roleplay"
It is funny for you to say that as when Black Marsh atacked Khajits you justified it simply by the BM's wish to expand and when Jadli kinda did the same to you say it is anti role play lol Also I do not see any role rule that Jadli would potentially break by atacking Altmers, feel free to point such rule out. Moreover BM support to VH in a war against Khajits was given before Jadli atacked Altmers (as far as I remember) which makes your try to justify your actions by Jadli's atack on altmers even more stupid.
"Cyrodiil being friends with Covenant"
Making a NAP with Convenant is not being a friends. If some deals are not role friendly that would certainly be VH-BM and Great Houses - BM+Tribunal (not in general, but just after all thinks and RP happened throughout the game), which in both you are involved.
"and cats"
Such deal was enforced in a peace treaty long time ago. Since then Cyrodil had more pressing conserns (particulary fighting Convenant) and I did not have strenght, opportunity to reclaim taken by Khajits lands regardless if I wanted it or it. Anyway it was not like "I like Jadli so I will make alliance with him, regardless of what lore rules actually want me to do".
"I just don't care, as nothing is enforced"
"I am willing to "reset" my attitude"
You never cared (sending VH forces to help out BM in Morrowind, BM's invasion on Khajits just to help out VH) so if you will reset you attidute you will be in the very same spot you are now.
I general if everyone would just play honest and fair into the lore rules insteed of just try hard to win the HS no matter what the everythink (or hopefully at least almost everythink) would play out properly. Insteed of that you are just pissing on those rules over and over again and in the end even complain that rules are not followed... That not only is a problem in it self, but aditionaly is causing precedent, encourageing others to also start breaking rules (because if others doesn't have to abite to those then why would I). For example if I would be on the Jadli's spot then after seeing that BM is sending support to VH I would be so pissed than I wouldn't care about any lore rules, insteed I would like to just destroy you.
I think allowing opposed factions to be controlled by the same player was a mistake to begin with.
I am the Air Bud of Total War
There is no point arguing about specifics between us as jadli can argue against anything just for the sake of arguing and Potatoto sees me as the devil. Defer this to a third neutral party as I suggested, or this will never be solved. I have legitimate grievences, and I am not alone with it. Listing them and writing long messages which lead nowhere just won't solve it anymore. Until that, I'll continue as is.
I agree with Mergor. Until there isn't a neutral third party, there is no point for us to present our argument, as you two will be biased anyway and will just nitpick it, instead of facing your own "dirt".
"The Dragon is wise, a sage among the ignorant. He knows not all that glitters is gold."
I concur with Dragon, this hotseat has been a mess. But I'd like to include how Jadlii controlled 3 factions(Anequina, Pelletine, and Wayrest with some hands in Daggerfall), one with being the biggest out of all the factions. Once he had reached across the map I don't believe anyone should be allowed to control more factions than one. The other factions should have their own players and say so. I know it's been a long campaign already but we all knew controlling multiple factions in this campaign would become an issue. And I will not accept an argument over Jadlii controlling multiple factions cause he has done it plenty in this HS. No offense towards Jadlii. but I feel that at that point it's playing to his own gain and also loses it's lore element(as seen from my perspective). I am for a neutral third party to intervene as well.
... if you remember, I was the one who found new players to fix this (which wasnt easy)... But indeed yes, as you say, once factions expand this much, everyone should control only one faction, or rather switch factions, os you instead control neighboring allied faction (such as Isenbard and Kiev did). Again, if you remember, I proposed the same, for Mergor to give the almost dead Tribunal up (as back then, Heritance was still very powerful. Now it would be the other way around) in order for him to become finally independent, while I have been willing to let Chieftain control Pelletine entirely as well (while he still is the ruling faction as Anequina, unlike the situation in Summerset, and Pelletine was supposed to die like 3 times already), but Mergor made a pretty big case out of that nobody can/should take his faction away from him. So here we are.
So.. anyway whats the argument thats supposed to justify Mergor keeping one of his factions alive by being gifted a region far away by an ally of his other faction? (dont forget trading settlements between your factions is forbidden and this is quite close)
If the only argument is that "everyone is on the lore rules, so I/we will be on them even more and nobody can force me to replay", then we can end this HS right now as well. Its not like you guys got any chance to win, we almost entirely control 5 provinces (6 if you count Elsweyr who also opposes the Pact/Heritance... Summerset will die in a few turns, and we will have all of Valenwood in like 1-2 turns), while you have only 2 and half provinces. And these turns take really tons of time, which it seeems could be better used elsewhere at this point.
Last edited by Jadli; October 04, 2022 at 01:47 AM.
"dont forget trading settlements between your factions is forbidden and this is quite close"
That argument doesn't work when you traded Daggerfall with orcs to spawn spawns to beat Sharnhelms navy
As for you winning... Well, not quite yet. This is also a game of endurance, and I've pointed out to you that if Skyrim is held and Elsweyr is won, thats half the map and a good chance to win. You win when we surrender, not earlier.
Anyway, it is clear we need a neutral party.
thats a pretty different situation, since it was between 2 tightly allied factions, one of them not mine. Either way, it wasnt done to keep someone's faction alive as in your case... and you rather not speak of exloiting the mission mechanics please You have literally spawned stacks of OP unbeatable justicars as Heritance, and its the only army this faction has now, otherwise it would have been defeated even sooner... (plus spawning ships every turn now)... another reason this faction should finally find its peace.
Skyrim is already not held by you, we control the heart of it, and Elsweyr can survive, hence you get nothing.
If your strategy relies on using several zombie factions with massive debts, then no thank you.
We dont have one, just let this facton die please (unless it survives on its own ofc)... then the HS can finally finish normally, with only 2 big alliances (Covenant vs Pact) and no issues with lore rules (plus the cats and imperials caught in between)
Last edited by Jadli; October 04, 2022 at 06:42 AM.
"and Potatoto sees me as the devil"
Yeah, easy way to deny any person that despise your actions. You want to admit it or not I am not a side of this dispute (you and Jadli are) and neither I am ally to any of you two.
Bringing up Zombie factions yet again? The rule about them doesn't exist in this hotseat so I don't understand the reason for that.
Anyways I believe VH getting land from BM is wrong, but seems so minor when we take into account the faction's situation. Unfortunately it can't go horde but is still in fighting condition. Their homeland is conquered and now they're just trying to survive. Having a settlement somewhere is just a technical requirement of the game to make this possible. Is it too far fetched for BM and VH having a general understanding that the Covenant is an enemy for them both?
VH can't make a deal unless forced with a "lesser" race. Either accept this settlement or perish seems like forced to me, and even though the Altmer hate this they must accept