The State of matched combat in DEI 1.2 post Patch 18

**BenSwolo** · December 30, 2017, 09:45 PM

AFAIK the unexpected patch 18 broke......alot of things,one of them been that alot of matched combat/kill animation got cut as a result of screw ups.

Also,DEI apparently uses its own matched/kill animation frequency/variaty independently from the vanilla,
May I ask what has changed from vanilla combat animation and how has the unexpected update changed this?

I’m asking because personally I liked the visual variatiey of having many different combat animation(despite many people asking for their removal) and that bug from patch 18 bummed me out completely

Would appreciate it if someone could answer this questions.

Also,if I use a mod such as Matched Combat Restored by Warrior of Light,how would it impact this mod?
I persume its going to change the balance abit?

**Dresden** · December 31, 2017, 02:31 AM

We have always had less matched combat than vanilla I believe. Mainly because its bad for balancing. Most mods will not be compatible if they have whole tables. I think KAM made a submod for this though.

**Dardo21** · December 31, 2017, 06:17 AM

Most animation mods are incompatible, also because they usually overwrite some of DEI's tables. KAM has indeed released a no matched combat mod for testing, and all animations will be reviewed after the tests are complete.

**Vardano** · December 31, 2017, 06:38 AM

I actually miss matched combats... I would be happy if we could have submod with restored MC for DEI. At least I could use it in custom battles, I really enjoyed to zoom in and watch battles and now it is pretty boring thing to do.

**Maetharin** · December 31, 2017, 07:15 AM

I‘m currently working on a personal submod in which I‘ve at least gotten rid of all the heart attack and twirl death animations.
Next up are matched combat animations, though I have no idea about them, seems rather tricky^^

I‘ll report all my findings to the DeI team and maybe also upload the submod if there‘s a demand

**♔Greek Strategos♔** · December 31, 2017, 08:22 AM

ΚΑΜ and me trying to solve the issue currently. We'll probably have to create a balanced version, with less matched animations which greatly destroy performance (that's why CA removed them almost completely from Warhammer1-2) and keep the killing animations for visual pleasure. Without matched animations the performance gain is huge. I'm talking about a 20-25fps increase here.

So stay tuned and we'll have something for you soon.

@Maetharin
Feel free to let us know about your results buddy.

**Maetharin** · December 31, 2017, 08:31 AM

Is it possible to have matched killing animations without any other matched combat?

**Vardano** · December 31, 2017, 09:45 AM

Heart attacks and air poking deaths are worst of all animations, so removing them is huge thing for me. Please keep us informed and I still will be glad to see return of all animations (except the ones I mentioned) as submod. Thanks to everyone.

**jdofo** · December 31, 2017, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Greek strategos

ΚΑΜ and me trying to solve the issue currently. We'll probably have to create a balanced version, with less matched animations which greatly destroy performance (that's why CA removed them almost completely from Warhammer1-2) and keep the killing animations for visual pleasure. Without matched animations the performance gain is huge. I'm talking about a 20-25fps increase here.

So stay tuned and we'll have something for you soon.

@Maetharin
Feel free to let us know about your results buddy.

Thank you very much both for your efforts! It is so much needed...

When ready, where it will be available? Official submods, for instance?

Cheers and keep up the great work!

**BenSwolo** · December 31, 2017, 11:14 AM

Thanks guys,that’s actually quite abit more than I’d hoped for.
Fingers crossed on seeing a good mix between visual and balance/performance soon.

**waidizss** · December 31, 2017, 11:36 AM

The tilt towards performance is a great step towards increasing playability of r2. Matched combat is a nice idea and if possible, ought to be available for the player to use. But more importantly complete absence of it should be a priority - exactly what the no matched combat submod does. You can play without matched combat, but cannot play if you're getting a bare 20fps.

Personally I think the whole mess of matched combat is misplaced feature. It did not fix unit interaction at all, which still has to be done by modders instead of paid devs, and just inserted complications into battle fluidity. I'd rather m2tw blobism than units being able to walk through each other.

**Satansblofish** · December 31, 2017, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Vardano

Heart attacks and air poking deaths are worst of all animations, so removing them is huge thing for me. Please keep us informed and I still will be glad to see return of all animations (except the ones I mentioned) as submod. Thanks to everyone.

Plus those super spin deaths where they spin 2-3 times at an angle parallel to the ground before plopping dead. I tried no matched combat and the 3 animations we just described was the entire battle. I have done a lot of silly things in Rome 2 that broke immersion, but nothing has ruined my experience more than watching over ~10k deaths on on a battle field happen like that. It stole any and every epic feeling from the game. It felt so wrong, I redid the battle. I support the premise of more realistic, less Hollywood-esque battles with increased FPS but not if the alternative is the opposite end of the spectrum with unexciting death animations that are just as unrealistic. If presented with both extremes, I prefer the one that is entertaining or at least the option to have it via submod. I guess I never realized how much I appreciated those times you zoom in for an epic screenie before going back to controlling the army until I saw that clown show.

**Beedo83** · December 31, 2017, 11:47 AM

Agreed, patch 18 kinda ruined R2 for me. I reverted back to patch 17 until things get ironed out both here and on CA's side (if that even happens). Haven't seen anyone from CA even acknowledge an issue so I'm not very hopeful. I've been using KAM's slower battles and the 'matched combat be gone' mod on the workshop. I haven't played enough battles yet but it seems the two balance each other out and the battles have a nice flow to them. I can't really zoom in enough during the battles I've been doing in my Athens campaign but when I can, I do notice a lot of killing blow animations occurring and no dueling animations. Performance is better as Strategos pointed out.

**♔Greek Strategos♔** · December 31, 2017, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by jdofo

Thank you very much both for your efforts! It is so much needed...

When ready, where it will be available? Official submods, for instance?

Cheers and keep up the great work!

It will be a submod for sure, not in the main mod AFAIK. We're not experts with animations to tell you the truth. We're just trying to understand how the engine will work as fluently as it could.

We don't have a ETA for this yet, we'll surely need more time after Holidays.

Originally Posted by Maetharin

Is it possible to have matched killing animations without any other matched combat?

Yes I believe it is AFAIK. Don't quote me on this though. We need to test many things before having a final result.

Originally Posted by BenSwolo

Thanks guys,that’s actually quite abit more than I’d hoped for.
Fingers crossed on seeing a good mix between visual and balance/performance soon.

We're aiming for a balanced solution indeed.