Berlin New Year's Eve party sets up 'safe zone' for women

[Marcus Aemilius Lepidus]

Link to the article:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...zone-for-women

The guardian article is making it not a big issue but in german articles there is a larger discussion about it. I will provide them but they are sadly only in german.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://www.berliner-kurier.de/berli...party-29410820

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://www.bz-berlin.de/berlin/mitt...ende-botschaft

I am not sure what i should think of it. I remember the events 2 years ago in cologne, but than again isn't it a deep cut in to our society? I understand it is only for women who feel unsafe but for me its some kind of seperation where i am as a man will be excluded. We have overcome gender seperation ages ago and i see this more and more in germany. In some cities we have swimming baths only for women etc. For me it is not the solution to seperate genders because in my eyes we would give up what we have achived in the past. Wouldn't it be more useful trying to give those in fear the feeling of more safety instead of giving them an area of protection and than say everything outsite is dangerous? Shouldn't entire Germany be safe?

Thoughts?

[mishkin]

Women are usually harassed (raped in the most extreme, not exceptional cases) where there are agglomerations, alcohol and men. Unfortunately today this seems to be the only solution for women who want to participate in a celebration of this type without fear of being disturbed.

(As far as I know this "safe zones" /"safe parties" are quite common in big cities like Madrid).

i.e: Are music festivals doing enough to tackle sexual assault? Reports of rape and other attacks are on the rise but, from grassroots groups to industry efforts, measures are being undertaken to keep attendees safe The Guardian

i.e: Anger in Spain over Pamplona festival gang rape case

and many more

[Ziltoid]

Even fairly left leaning BBC has the balls to say whats it really about:

"Organisers of Berlin's New Year's Eve celebrations are to set up a "safe zone" for women for the first time. Hundreds of women reported being attacked by gangs of men with migrant backgrounds. The events in Cologne heightened tensions in the country over the large influx of refugees and migrants - 1.1m people arrived in Germany in 2015, some, but by no means all, fleeing violence in Syria and Iraq."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42502984

Yet leftists try to spin this as "oh its because all men are bad and guilty" narrative. These kind of mass harassments on this scale didn't happen before mass influx of migrants no way how you try to spin it as some sort of collective guilt of all men.



Anyways this is what happens when you don't build fences on your border. You need to build em instead inside your country now in events like these along with allahu-ackbar-prevention-concrete-blocks everywhere to stop trucks of peace. Thanks mama Merkel.

And in Sweden this has gone even worse, with mass taharrush in numerous festivals, including free ones aimed for teenagers. It has lead to them disbanding their country's biggest music festivals for good and also now coming up with festival only for females. Hooray for multiculturalism.

[Mithradates]

to seperate genders because in my eyes we would give up what we have achived in the past. Wouldn't it be more useful trying to give those in fear the feeling of more safety instead of giving them an area of protection and than say everything outsite is dangerous? Shouldn't entire Germany be safe?

Thoughts?

Im afraid its a bit late for that, they dont need more "feeling of safety", its not just a feeling anymore, they need actual safety now.
"part and parcel", I guess, at least for now.

[mishkin]

In Western society we have been raping and harassing women for centuries, never needing the help of foreigners to make the environment nauseating. Now go ahead, convert the problem of how men mistreat women into the problem of immigration and the evil muslamics.

[Ziltoid]

In Western society we have been raping and harassing women for centuries, never needing the help of foreigners to make the environment nauseating. Now go ahead, convert the problem of how men mistreat women into the problem of immigration and the evil muslamics.

Western society has been at forefront of fixing those issues of rape and harassment towards women that have been going on in past centuries. Now that we have finally reached considerably more civilised, equal and calmer times, Merkel invites people from culture that is centuries behind in such progress for women's rights, freedoms and independence on their own body. And then these New Year's Eve sexual assaults in Germany cases happen by these new migrants coming from culture not used to treating women up to western standards, leading up to fencing genders separately.

And out of all in that scenario, you decide to blame bad western men and whitewash the perpetrators as innocent and even pull the victimisation cards to their defense that's its just about "evil muslamics" bias or whatever, rather than actual facts related to this event and reasons behind it.

Just woah, must be amazing to live in such ideological bubble where reality gets turned upside down for sake of narrative.

[mongrel]

Western society has been at forefront of fixing those issues of rape and harassment towards women

Indeed so, but in past decades, not centuries. And not enough progress is being done. Of course, since the pussy grabber in chief gained power, there are some people willing to downplay violence against women, unless it involves brown people. How the hell does border control prevent incidents like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HQQYonF7J4

Of a sample of 2,000 Germans , forty-three percent of the women surveyed in Germany said they had been sexually harassed or abused at least once in their lifetime compared to 12 percent of men.

Nearly one in five men in Germany admitted their actions "could have been deemed inappropriate or sexually abusive" by the other person. Just 6 percent of the women surveyed admitted to have done the same

http://www.dw.com/en/half-of-women-i...vey/a-41149234.


Clearly this issue is down to predatory men, both German and non-German. To say otherwise is total nonsense.

I now await your obligatory comments on African persons.

[mishkin]

Every day I read cases of local men mistreating, harassing and raping women. The cases of immigrants assaulting women are exceptional. But hey, do not let reality interfere in your paranoia.

Google "raped woman" (I Just did). Results of a woman raped by his neighbor, another by a gang of local boys, another by the police, another by a interviewer...

You do not give a ### about violence against women. If you want to talk about "the muslim invasion", do it, but do not use a topic as serious as violence against women as an excuse.

[Ziltoid]

Clearly this issue is down to predatory men, both German and non-German. To say otherwise is total nonsense.

Except this case is not about generic harassment of men through the ages of mankind (such a patriarchal word that one too).

It is issue of predatory men, but this topic one is in particular about fences being set up due to non-German ones being behind it.

Wiki:

All of the incidents involved women being surrounded and assaulted by groups of men on the street.^[29][30] Police reported that the perpetrators were men of "Arab or North African appearance" and said that Germany had never experienced such mass sexual assaults before.^{[20][30][31][32][33]} The German Federal Criminal Police Office said the incidents were, "A phenomenon known in some Arab countries as taharrush jamai" (translated as "group sexual harassment").^{[34][35][36][37]} The attacks sparked an international outcry, a debate about women's rights, the sustainability of Germany's asylum policy, and social differences between European societies and those of North Africa and the Middle East. Taking place during the European migrant crisis (see timeline), the attacks also led to a hardening of attitudes against immigration

How the hell does border control prevent incidents like this?

Fairly simple, if the people behind this particular case and now the results of it (fences set up) are immigrants, then border control not letting such people in would have made this not happen at all. Does it happen in Poland or Hungary? No.

And your rant about sexual harassment by germans, noone is denying that sexual harassment happens in every ethnicity and culture. But to this level of it going mass scale, has not really happened in Germany since 1945 when russians came visiting over.

[HannibalExMachina]

some notes on the article:

the german police union criticizes the idea, as it is deaf to the political implications, and also disempowers women by implicating that there are no-go zones for women. in essence, telling them they will have to stick to some places, while avoiding others, or bear the consequences.

now, a lot of people around here are happy with women knowing their place, pun intended, so the whole concept of "protecting" women makes perfect sense to them. women are inferior and thus unable to take care of themselves. a women not submitting to the protection of a man is free game, and has chosen to be so.

the feeling of safety is very important. one is more unlikely to undertake any action that feels unsafe. if it is dangerous to say, cast a vote, democracy is undermined.

that is the crux of the problem really: law and order propaganda only gives a false sense of security, and while i wont accuse the berlin police of bad intend, they are playing into this narrative. a safe zone always implicates unsafety, which is what the far-right has always been pushing to establish as a fact.

that is also why conservative security policy is always flawed at its core, its essentially reactive, not proactive, and engenders a fortress mentally. we have to huddle down, we have to keep x out, away from y, etc.

fortress mentally has of course never worked, from the chinese wall to the maginot line, to the war on drugs and apartheid, as it always surrenders initiative, and surrenders to the problem. gun violence? arm yourselves, we have given up on the police. parts of the city a hive of scum and villany? write it off, use militarized police to contain, keep people from moving there. people without jobs and perspectives who respect women even less than we do? close the borders, hide yo women. purge all people with the same backgound, and keep it under wraps that we have been doing the same thing for centuries.

edit:

the last part is important because it demonstrates why the issue of sexual harrasment is more in the open now. if the culprit is a relative or employer, the victims are under much more pressure to keep silent. if it happens at the octoberfest, this would call into question the problems of having women around a lot of drunk man, in context of a hallowed german traditions no less. call the octoberfest rapetoberfest and a potential no-go zone, and watch the bodies hit the floor.

that immigrants are called out for it is as important as calling out "ethnic" germans, but the motivation is demonstrably not the protection of women, otherwise we would be hearing equally much about sexual abuse of women in general.

"it wouldnt have happend" on a case to case basis is useless, as every case of every crime wouldnt have happend by that logic. it is not fighting causes, but selectively adressing symptoms. we are letting men near women, and we have to deal with that. nationalists and anti-immigrants too comfortably intersect with social conservatives to not have a conflict of interest when it comes to the treatment of women.

[Ziltoid]

Every day I read cases of local men mistreating, harassing and raping women. The cases of immigrants assaulting women are exceptional. But hey, do not let reality interfere in your paranoia.

Google "raped woman" (I Just did). Results of a woman raped by his neighbor, another by a gang of local boys, another by the police, another by a interviewer...

You do not give a ### about violence against women. If you want to talk about "the muslim invasion", do it, but do not use a topic as serious as violence against women as an excuse.

Actually what you tell me not to do, is exactly what ive done here in Swedish statisticss over sexual assaults revealed with plenty of facts and statistics, perhaps you missed it?

And it does point out that "muslim invasion" and serious violence against women go hand-in-hand statistically in Sweden, with over 90%+ in both gang rapes and assault rapes being done by foreigners (which basicly means muslims in Sweden) out of all people sentenced in courts 2012-2017.

And again let me remind you guys, this topic is not about "every day of cases sexual harassment" but specifically about previous NYE mass harassment incidents by specific population group that lead to this NYE having fenced areas and genders separated. Title is: Berlin New Year's Eve party sets up 'safe zone' for women



It seems leftist are very much against grouping up immigrants when they do bad things like mass sexual harassment or driving over people with trucks. But more than eager to use even broader brush to blame it all on all men (especially the white ones) in this topic's case, to dodge the blame away from actual perpetrators. Some weird twisted logic you guys are applying there.

I guess you are allowed to generalize about groups that you find in your ideological narrative to be privileged such as white men, and you can throw any kind of generic broad accusations and crap at em at will and those groups are supposed suck it up and feel guilt. You are however not allowed to generalize anything about groups that are "disadvantaged" which includes all immigrants, women and everyone with different sexual orientation or case of unique snowflake'isness.

Such double standards and hypocrisy in my mind just comes in way of actual attempt towards equality and treating people as humans rather than weird identity politics pawns to push some cultural marxist agenda and modern cult of victimhood.

[Pontifex Maximus]

I hope that soon we will all live in intersectional utopias like Germany.

[HannibalExMachina]

Actually what you tell me not to do, is exactly what ive done here in Swedish statisticss over sexual assaults revealed with plenty of facts and statistics, perhaps you missed it?

And it does point out that "muslim invasion" and serious violence against women go hand-in-hand statistically in Sweden, with over 90%+ in both gang rapes and assault rapes being done by foreigners (which basicly means muslims in Sweden) out of all people sentenced in courts 2012-2017.

And again let me remind you guys, this topic is not about "every day of cases sexual harassment" but specifically about previous NYE mass harassment incidents by specific population group that lead to this NYE having fenced areas and genders separated. Title is: Berlin New Year's Eve party sets up 'safe zone' for women



It seems leftist are very much against grouping up immigrants when they do bad things like mass sexual harassment or driving over people with trucks. But more than eager to use even broader brush to blame it all on all men (especially the white ones) in this topic's case, to dodge the blame away from actual perpetrators. Some weird twisted logic you guys are applying there.

I guess you are allowed to generalize about groups that you find in your ideological narrative to be privileged such as white men, and you can throw any kind of generic broad accusations and crap at em at will and those groups are supposed suck it up and feel guilt. You are however not allowed to generalize anything about groups that are "disadvantaged" which includes all immigrants, women and everyone with different sexual orientation or case of unique snowflake'isness.

Such double standards and hypocrisy in my mind just comes in way of actual attempt towards equality and treating people as humans rather than weird identity politics pawns to push some cultural marxist agenda and modern cult of victimhood.

nice try, but all that thread proved was hightend awareness due to swedens policy of treating every case of rape as a serious incident.

also, your "all men" defence is as pathetic as it gets. if you have to shout: but not me! you have already demonstrated the necessity to exclude yourself on an individual basis.

men do commit the vast majority of all sexual crimes, those numbers are not in doubt, only your strawmen accuses men as a uniform group as rapists.
and yes, privilege is an issue. lack of privilege is not an excuse, but it is a root cause. if white swedish men of better social and economic standing are still rapists, then the whole issue of race, cultural, economic standing becomes marginal.

[sumskilz]

now, a lot of people around here are happy with women knowing their place, pun intended, so the whole concept of "protecting" women makes perfect sense to them. women are inferior and thus unable to take care of themselves. a women not submitting to the protection of a man is free game, and has chosen to be so.

Who said that?

[mishkin]

I was going to reply (if there is a thread about muslim rapers whats the reason for this one? Why are you talking about "the leftists" now? etc) but then I read "some cultural marxist agenda and modern cult of victimhood" and saw that any discussion would be futil.

I suppose it can be considered the height of machismo and the summum of the lack of respect for women to ignore their suffering and focus on the evil immigrants invading our paradise.

I read the newspapers. Daily news about rapes and harassment by natives. (And of course the usual ### during the celebration of great festivals. Have you heard of Pamplona/Sanfermines lately?)

[HannibalExMachina]

everyone who thinks womens equality is a non-issue in the present? that women are totally equal, but please, lets mandate womens behaviour and put them in collective protective custody by men, so they dont dress provocatively and dont come close to "muslims"? instead of, ya know, protect their rights of self-determination and physical and mental safety, towards all and not just a specific group?

[Basil II the B.S]

I love how we are essentially enforcing Sharia style separation of men and women because some people we imported from the third world can't behave.

The entirety of the blame is on immigration apologists anyway. There are migrants that come to Europe because their recognize their home customs are crap.

[HannibalExMachina]

I love how we are essentially enforcing Sharia style separation of men and women because some people we imported from the third world can't behave.

The entirety of the blame is on immigration apologists anyway. There are migrants that come to Europe because their recognize their home customs are crap.

you are so close to a point, and so oblivious to it, its sad.

yes, we, enlightented europeans, want to practice segregation by gender. and those evil migrants come here because they are agreeing with you on some of their own cultural norms.

two contradictions in two sentences, it says alot how that doesnt tell you: holy crap, i advcate the thing even muslims think are bad, i havent been making sense this whole time!

[mishkin]

I love how we are essentially enforcing Sharia style separation of men and women because some people we imported from the third world can't behave.

The entirety of the blame is on immigration apologists anyway. There are migrants that come to Europe because their recognize their home customs are crap.

These safe spaces occur in places where the Muslim population is infimate. (I mentioned Madrid before). I have seen the promotion of some of these spaces and are not related at all to the defense from immigrants or Muslims.

[sumskilz]

everyone who thinks womens equality is a non-issue in the present? that women are totally equal, but please, lets mandate womens behaviour and put them in collective protective custody by men, so they dont dress provocatively and dont come close to "muslims"? instead of, ya know, protect their rights of self-determination and physical and mental safety, towards all and not just a specific group?

I see, so no one actually said that was their opinion, and you were just disparaging "a lot of people around here" with your unsupported assumptions.

Are women allowed to carry pepper spray in Germany?