[AAR]: Mithridates and the Destiny of Rome

[Garbad]

As requested, I am running a campaign as Mithridates (Pontus) in a semi historical H/H campaign. No save scumming, activty diplo, etc.

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Day One:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xbbxb8rb52...ntos.save?dl=0

Rome is the cancer that will consume the world. I am not the first to see this - from the mighty Hasdrubal to their own muses that warning has been spread. Yet who can stop the Legions? Only a hero like one of old...and such I was crafted to be. I've been through my heroic training montage, dined on poison, and killed my treacherous kin. Now is the time to rise to greatness, and check Rome forever. Understand me, this is no base power grab. I am not motivated by wealth, honor, or ego. My sole goal is the survival and propagation of my superior greek culture to the world, by any means necessary. To achieve this, I must withstand our traditional barbarian and eastern foes, but most importantly, I must stop rome. Only once force can hope to withstand the Legions...the united might of Greece.

Call me an idealist, but I began my quest for unification with persuasion. Or, to be more accurate, bribery. I invested my initial 20k startup money bribing Sinope and Trapezus into joining the Mithridatic Kingdom...but this left me perilously underfunded and unarmed, and the Galations and Kappadocians attacked. With the extremely limited forces at my disposal, I struck back...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n90u2sjkg3...358_1.jpg?dl=0
Obliterating the rebel greeks...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oxruq7p2m1...843_1.jpg?dl=0
...Slaughtering the gaul horde...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/so6ter8si7...959_1.jpg?dl=0
...and finally meeting the Kappaboys in a fierce battle for the capital.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9iurdjerqc...200_1.jpg?dl=0
Thanks to the brave sacrifice of the civilian militia, we prevailed against their mighty force...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jrb2rq5xqt...758_1.jpg?dl=0
But at great cost. Our country was extremely weak, underdeveloped, and my army was not at all up to modern par.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8tawgii6t2...gdom.save?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jwqs6o1f3d...707_1.jpg?dl=0
...and then the Thracians declared war. They began raiding by sea, which put me in a tough spot as I could not even hope to afford a navy, yet had no land access to fight back.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hlk6bx1rxb...144_1.jpg?dl=0
But with a little bit of luck, I baited them into a trap and crushed their forces.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pwbdoflc1e...909_1.jpg?dl=0
This crippled the Thracians, but I still had no land bridge to them, so I was forced to "betray" the friendly Bythians. I dared not simply pass through as I feared they would come to their kins' aid once we were committed.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jwqs6o1f3d...707_1.jpg?dl=0
I fought a desperate battle against 6 thousand screaming savages at the Hellespont, then went into europe to take my vengeance.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6nkw0ddaw4...819_1.jpg?dl=0
This left me the master of the bythia et pontus province, part of galatia, and a bit of thrace.

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https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qms0f9x9v...%202.save?dl=0

So here I am, with a moment to catch my breath. My military exploits have made me the darling of greece -- all factions love and respect me, yet they ignore my repeated pleas to prepare for the coming doom. They squabble amongst themselves, greek on greek, as the romans invade the mainland itself. Furthermore, my friend Selucus grows ever stronger and ever more corrupted eastern. I am now effectively cut off from growth in asia or greece unless I war on my own, yet I lack the power to directly confront the roman machine...who are now contesting the same province I am driving the thracians out of.

And thus my trilema -- only the might of greece can stop rome, yet greece will not yet listen to me, and I am too weak to fight alone. So help me decide, council, what should I do next?

1. Continue to grow my economy and military by crushing thracians and gauls. Avoid rome, woo the greeks with diplomacy and support if rome moves against them. The risk is I might lack the power to resist when that day comes.

2. Compel the weaker Greek City States to join my Kingdom by force. Attempt to take athens, rhodes, and so forth before the romans can and without provoking rome. The risk is I might get caught in a multi front war when rome strikes me, plus I lose my aura as the greek liberator.

3. War against my friend Selucus. If I can control his resources and bring him back to his greek heritage, I can fight the romans if they dare cross into asia. The risk is I will be in a long land war in asia while rome is unchecked in europe.

What should I do? You vote, I'll obey!

[Alannon]

Leave Rome for dessert and relieve Seleucus of his persian satrapies.

[NeptuneUK]

The Seleucids have become decadent and weak, only the Mithridatic dynasty can wield the resources of these rich Asian lands wisely! Unify a Hellenic Asia and take the fight to Rome!

[Garbad]

Day Two: A deal with the Devil

As I was preparing to expand my power base in asia, an opportunity arose. Rome declared war on some local thracians who controlled a territory right next to mine. I declared war on them, and for the low, low cost of 10,000 massacred barbarians I gained the trust of rome. Little do they know I am a serpent at the breast, but this will give me the time to sort out other areas and hopefully divert rome away from greece. Meanwhile, two dacian tribes have declared war on me. I routed one stack easily, but I am loathe to move north and engage, but if I do not they may harass my borders and perhaps threaten my bosphoran kin. Still, I must move against asia soon or lose my window. I think this forces me into a two front war.

In the larger scene, my greek brothers still debate the roman issue. Rome is steadily and slowly encroaching. I must move quickly.

[Lord Oakenthrone]

Mighty Mithridates, do you swiftly capitalise on the small Greek islands, afterall you need to build an economy to even get a chance to throw troops towards Rome.. or do you take opportunity to blitz the Seleukids?, choose wisely!
ah well, guess we'll have to wait and see
this is great stuff!

[Garbad]

Well, my goal has never been the subjugation of my fellow greeks. My goals with the war with Selcuids are:

1. Purge all unwholesome eastern elements, especially the parthians.
2. Ensure their friendly coexistence with other greek factions in the coming struggle.
3. Ideally, get their willing military cooperation in the war against Rome.

The selucids are a stubborn folk, but if they will agree to those terms we have no quarrel with them. As the guarantor of greek freedom, we will even go to war to preserve them if we must, as I will all greek states.

Day Three: Asiatic Vespers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiatic_Vespers

The war went uncommonly well. My armies followed the dacian savages to their hovels and burnt them to the ground. They will think long and hard before they bother us again. However, the diplomatic effort is still ongoing. Several greek factions, including Pergamon, Rhodes, and Crimea attempted to take a pro-Roman stance, so I had to preempt this betrayal of their own culture. I struck hard and fast, eliminating the treacherous elements in their governments and bringing them into alignment with my Kingdom. The war went on for some time, but was never in doubt. Meanwhile, although I was forced to declare war on the Selucids to secure all of Asia minor, we reached an accord. Although they will not commit to join with us in battle, they are at least a friendly neutral. Other factions are not so willing. Fear of the romans has kept the mainland greeks from rallying to my cause -- athens and other cities are now roman protectorates, and egypt is at war with mars.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6oe2dpuxm0...128_1.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e0yzxes92a...249_1.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ac377x2j3z...130_1.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3220ejqz2h...111_1.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bay4opirca...111_1.jpg?dl=0

My empire:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2qz2vwxxlc...604_1.jpg?dl=0

Mithridates holdings at their peak:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ticKingdom.png

But I now have the strength I need. To calm the fears of tyranny, I will take no more territory. Any greek cities I take in the future shall be liberated, any lesser races shall be subjugated. My army is professional and elite, my economy is irrationally exuberant, and my diplomatic base is secure. The time has come to move against the beast -- the question is how?

1. Direct Invasion. Land in greece, liberate or convince every faction to join me, and drive the unwelcome dogs out.

2. Undermine Rome's strength. Prevent rome from expanding, strengthen her enemies, and let the beast tire itself for a time before we move.

3. Or ???

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0fnkbdg6o5...pers.save?dl=0

[Alannon]

Focus on your own holdings! Rome is only more fun the stronger it has grown.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Very interesting @Garband I'll keep an eye on it for sure.

[nduske]

Roman feet must not be allowed to step further in the hallow lands of Leonidas, Pericles and Alexander. Push them back into the sea, mighty Mithridates.

Poslato sa NEM-L21 uz pomoć Tapatoka

[Garbad]

Uh oh we got a split vote, anyone want to break the tie?

[Lord Oakenthrone]

Consolidate power in the homelands and stay on top of the unification of Greece whilst getting stronger and richer, giving you the full Pontic troop roster to conquest with
if you blitzed Rome too early (which you are more than capable of doing right now) would it take away the epic feel of really fighting for your life tooth and nail against a mighty war machine of legions?

let Rome grow stronger and roll out the later reform stacks , else blitzing too early it would take a really interesting enemy out of a even more interesting AAR

or?

[Garbad]

Oh, didn't see the tiebreaker. So the Geriousa votes to focus on my own holdings and build strength. Will do.

[hoho96]

as it happens I'm running a semi-historical Rome campaign which has been working brilliantly so far; I'm at the last half of the second century B.C. and Carthage is reduced to a couple of settlements in western africa plus their capital, Pergamum is a powerful ally in western asia minor but is locked in constant war with the greek colony-states to their north and east (you may have an idea about those ), and Greek States are slowly realizing the beauty of joining the Commonwealth of the Republic
Can't wait to finally hit that 1st cen B.C when my 12 legions and 4 fleets can finally start to bring real civilisation to the world

[Garbad]

For the next ~150 turns or so, I steadily bribed my greek brethren into the most favorable diplomatic situation they would accept. It wasn't much. Rome still holds much of the original greek lands. I also was forced to roll through Egypt and massacre them, both because they would accept peace and because I needed imperium 5 (and you can't get it by alliance/clients anymore).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vocp733mep...301_1.jpg?dl=0
Annihilating the weak arabic states took almost no effort.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o27oh57s2a...708_1.jpg?dl=0
Rome, somewhat comically, thinks we are best friends. They will never see it coming...

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https://www.dropbox.com/s/5ovd0vqxg6...ONAL.save?dl=0

I now have 12 FULLY ARMED AND OPERATIONAL LEGIONS ready to strike.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0uvsp7qn3a...717_1.jpg?dl=0

The battle plan calls for a small detachment (one legion and one fleet) to liberate africa, then move north and meet up with our ally Syracuse. Meanwhile, four more legions will move into the barbarian wild, liberating savages and bribing them to join me. I have 1 million gold set aside for these bribes. Finally, 6 legions are poised with our ally sparta, ready to rampage into greece liberating the cities there. Once the greek main is cleared, we will prepare to make the move into Italy from three fronts.

My legions come in three flavors. First, the heavy combat legions:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fjx5yuq44k...523_1.jpg?dl=0
Featuring a heavy pike line with hoplite flank protectors and seige machinery, this compels any opposing force to attack us. Meanwhile, we have two wings of cav for alexandrian tactics, and...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ctng0sybk6...502_1.jpg?dl=0
...easy synergy with the second type of army, the Support legion. This provides cost effective missile support and fodder to help the main legions reduce casualties among key units while fighting much larger enemy armies.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mhylz4aqtk...434_1.jpg?dl=0
The third type fights in the style of the False Center with a cavalry/infantry flanking combo. Its designed to obliterate other legions 1v1 in a loss effective way.

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And so here we are, at the dawn of the great battle of our time. How should I proceed?

[Lord Oakenthrone]

The upcoming battle between Rome and Pontus is going to be Epic!

the "false center" tactic worked against Romes legions in history I hear

may it bring you glory in the field, brave Ruler of Pontus, now you will truly test the mettle of the sons of Mars!

[nduske]

I agree with Lord Oakenthrone, "false center" should be best. Also, Romans would probably expect Alexandrian tactics. Hail to Mithridates, future ruler of Rome!

[Garbad]

So I've been carefully considering how to beat the romans. My infantry cannot match theirs, and they know very well to leave a force in reserve to prevent typical alexandrian tactics. This led to the False Center tactic:

https://imgur.com/a/6DiA5

Any thoughts?

[Satansblofish]

Oh man, I haven't used the false center since 1.1 when I saw you make another reference to it then. It wasn't just great for crushing the AI's one move, it was efficient.

Regarding your latest plan, I like it. Ballsy trying to split the difference on two lines of infantry to get a quick, direct shot at their missile support and rear charges right after. The main risk that stands out to me is that in my experience it's not uncommon for the AI to have some sort of melee infantry sitting back that could roll up on your cavalry - which you mention -- but I guess I don't see how using the False Center creates a greater chance they won't leave units in reserve or at that they will get tied up in the melee? Then again, I haven't used premier slingers or the False Center in a minute though so I am not sure if that will will trigger the effect or not. But, it's also common for an AI unit that is not in combat but is blobbed to disengage and similarly try to roll up on your cavalry. If this were to be a problem and you are using medium or heavy peltasts, you could try to pull one through with you behind your cav and use them as support/utility. If you manage to pull them through, I'm sure you don't need me to tell you what you can do with them from that point.


Alternative idea. I don't expect you to utilize this but I am curious to hear your thoughts as False Center seems like it could be utilized in a multitude of ways.

Rather than pull your cav through the center(I know, it kills the entire Alexander reference) you pull your peltasts through. Maybe just 2 as that would be enough to send their own missile units scattering - unless it's velites, then you may be fighting. Next, you smash your cav into their cav once it's engaged on your wing/skirmisher spears. With a rear charge or even just a good charge with them being still you should decimate their cav for minimal losses. Whichever flank you do this to, preferably the side where their missile units fall back, you begin immediately overwhelming, rear charging, and collapsing that entire side of their flank. You can peel a cav unit off to relieve your peltats and let those turn back to the melee. Once you break one unit on that line, the rest are going to break pretty fast. The obvious downside here is you are still in a race against time hoping the other flank can hold on with less men. This is where you could pull the slingers to try and help. You could also peel off a peltast or cav unit to come help.

Within this plan, if well executed, you could support one of your skirmisher spears and quickly eliminate one flank of their cav and then be right onto chasing their missile units. It's of course a bit slower in getting to the missiles than the alternative but in turn you collapsed one of their cavalry flanks and your flank should now last longer. It's kind of a safer version of your idea - less risk but also less reward.

[Garbad]

Thanks.

> The main risk that stands out to me is that in my experience it's not uncommon for the AI to have some sort of melee infantry sitting back that could roll up on your cavalry - which you mention -- but I guess I don't see how using the False Center creates a greater chance they won't leave units in reserve or at that they will get tied up in the melee?

They almost always have a reserve, but I tie them up either with the main blob or the pelts/medium spears before the cavs move. During the 4th screenshot (before the cav run thru), use your slingers to give each unit of infantry a love tap. This will force them to either stand there and get blasted or move into the melee blob. 90% of the time, they commit.

> But, it's also common for an AI unit that is not in combat but is blobbed to disengage and similarly try to roll up on your cavalry.

If they do, turn the slingers and blast them in their undefended backs until they learn their lesson. Cavs just kite them around a bit.

> I am curious to hear your thoughts as False Center seems like it could be utilized in a multitude of ways.

It can be. I've tried javcav, horse cav, melee cav, 2h infantry, naked spears, pelts, elite archers, elephants -- I've even rushed scorpions through the hole to try it. My original concept (pelts first line, cav 2nd) still seems best. The reason why is the javs are massively deadly as they push into the killing zone, allowing for a quick wipe to open the hole. This reduces time/casualties on the other fronts. This is especially true if they don't chase the pelts, but instead go for the slingers or backs of infantry, allowing easy back shots. Unfortunately, this usually expends all/most of their missiles, so at that point they are just bad infantry that take up a lot of space -- perfect for supporting/stalling in the melee blob, but not so great on a flank attack. They often tangle up with garbage infantry or even basic archers and at the difficulty levels I play at, they take forever to kill them. Meanwhile your infantry suffer severely -- you need a fast win to minimize casualties among your bigs or else you win a phyrric victory very quickly.

Its actually pretty easy to flank around with cav at any time. See v2.0 which uses a 2 infantry/3 cav flanking force, infantry screen, cav dominate. The false center was created with the idea of defeating the AI with no cav/back attacks at all, only mass infantry and roman style maneuver. Later I adapted it to greek units because if the supremacy of slingers and gaugamela. But I feel its essential both from a fun/challenge perspective to use cheap units, one stack only, and semi historical tactics. This is why I have basic units like slingers and cheap spears, not elite units. In fact most of the time I have a hard cap -- only 2k upkeep per army. Hard choices have to be made if you want even mediocre cavalry in that army.

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The false center obliterates AI early game armies (blobs of cheap infantry and missile), very efficiently. Where it struggles is when medium quality greek infantry are no longer enough -- when the AI throws so many legionaries or whatever your poor infantry just splat, meanwhile they still have 10 units in reserve to harass your cavs. I came to consider the false center an early game formation, and late game, I moved to the attacking version - 3 lancers, 3 horsebows, 4 spear, 4 sword, 4 slinger/elite archer, 2 pelts. That allowed me two flanking wings to play with, plus more missile firepower early game to prod the blob into committing. The only problem was mounting casualties, particularly among my infantry. It seemed impossible to defeat blobs of high armor, high morale infantry without at some point having an extended brawl that left me bleeding out of all holes. Plus at some point I lost sight of the brilliance of the false center -- the genius is not in the flank (anyone can flank the AI at any time), its in creating a situation where you can repeatedly use cheap units to counter expensive ones with no risk, where you can shatter armies without needing to kill all of them (and thus taking mass losses in return).

That, in turn, led me to the Battle of Zama. But that's another story. Maybe I'll do a rome AAR some day.

http://i.imgur.com/xAYvekU.gifv

My indian mercs celebrate a victory over the roman legions

[nduske]

So, it begins! Where the battle(s) happened and which provinces were the first to fall? Did you attacked them at Athens or Naisos?