Brexit - Time to scrap it and start again?

[caratacus]

Labour conference: Move to abolish deputy post ditched
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/49781152
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has quashed a motion at his party conference to oust his deputy, Tom Watson, by abolishing the position.
Mr Corbyn suggested the role should be reviewed instead, and was backed by the ruling National Executive Committee, a Labour source said. A group of Labour MPs had urged the NEC to avoid an "internal civil war" when it should be preparing for an election.

Mr Watson called the move to oust him a "sectarian attack" on a "broad church". The party conference, which is being held in Brighton, opened on Saturday and will also see debate on other proposals, including Labour's stance on Brexit. Meanwhile, Labour frontbenchers Sir Keir Starmer and Emily Thornberry appeared at a rally for the People's Vote campaign, which supports another referendum, and confirmed they would back Remain.


Labour party conference: Corbyn plays down divisions amid aide's exit
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49786833
Jeremy Corbyn has sought to play down divisions within his top team after one of his closest aides said he would quit and criticised the party's leadership.

And so the fudge goes on to continue the lack of clarity over Brexit and conceal a divide between Blairites and Marxists. Time for the Labour party to shed their red coats and reveal their blue star spangled knickers.

[Cope]

And so the fudge goes on to continue the lack of clarity over Brexit and conceal a divide between Blairites and Marxists. Time for the Labour party to shed their red coats and reveal their blue star spangled knickers.

Don't worry, the court will assume constitutional control over Her Majesty's government (and Her Majesty herself) by presuming to tell both when prorogation is acceptable - which naturally won't include any time which is inconvenient for the Europhilic establishment. In the meantime, the referendum result will remain unfulfilled and Parliament will continue to block any general election so as to deny the voters a chance to break the deadlock democratically.

[95thrifleman]

A civil war is brewing at the labour conference. Corbyn wants to stay on the fence, promising all things to all people while the party faithful are moving to turn labour into a remain party.

Can the unions save the dear leader?

[Aexodus]

Yes, it seems so. I’m surprised actually, I would have thought most Labour members would want to remain in the EU. No doubt Thornberry will be disappointed.

[Muizer]

Corbyn wants to go into an election with the promise to renegotiate a deal and then not campaign for it in a second referendum. I can see that going down well with the electorate: Only the most cruelly vindictive remainer would support this. After all, compared to outright revoking article 50, what would this be to the leave contingent but to add insult to injury? Bringing people together my donkey.....

[Cohors_Evocata]

The rollercoaster ride continues as the Supreme Court has unanimously ruled that the prorogation of Parliament was unlawful and can hence be considered null and void.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-49807552

The full judgement can be found here, for those interested: https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/do...2-judgment.pdf

[Cope]

Blairite Court inventing the British constitution as it goes along so as to serve the interests of the Europhilic establishment

[95thrifleman]

It doesn't really matter to be honest. Labour has impaled itself on their fence and Bojo has become the brexit martyr.

[Dante Von Hespburg]

Except Judges from the early 80s have been pulled in to act as constitutional guardians. So not Blairite, but a Longridge trend- again get a written constitution to solve this as this is the reality of the Westminster system.

More broadly though, Farage is actually spot on in his comments earlier- Dominic Cummings must go. Boris and his team ducked up hugely by going down this road, it's entirely self inflicted in the political battle, he proroued and despite the briefings of his own ministers staying it was to do with brexit, attempted to argue it was not. He then lost his own majority. It was a series of politically incompetent moves by Boris. He could have simplyour gone and reopened negotiations (which is what he stated he's been doing. He need not have done any of this.

The courts ruling of course does not overtly effect current brexit plans, but it essentially severely undermines Boris'should political position. Current Tories already unhappy. Broad calls for Boris to resign (as he politically should right now, historic first due to his own political incompetence).

Edit: 95th got it right (on phone so I have terrible typing and time skills). Labour have had a melt down to, so playing field merely even again. However key to one the latest You gov poll, showed that if Brexit does not haplenty by 31st, Tories drop toff third largest party. Labour becomeme largest on 26 percent, Brexit party on 22 and Tory on 20. I have issues with polls specifics, but it's a good broad indication of what awaits the Tories. This will also be helped byou fact it is rumoured Corbyn will stand down soon. Nearly any replacement will see Labour surge.

[Muizer]

Blairite Court inventing the British constitution as it goes along so as to serve the interests of the Europhilic establishment

So, in general, you think it is ok for a government to suspend parliament for much longer than necessary when important decisions are to be made? Can't have democracy only when it works in your favour, you know. (And don't bring up the referendum again. You've had a GE since. Parliament is the only democratic basis for anything, both morally and legally).

[JP226]

Yes, it seems so. I’m surprised actually, I would have thought most Labour members would want to remain in the EU. No doubt Thornberry will be disappointed.

Why would a party built around unions want “free trade” and open borders?

[Cope]

So, in general, you think it is ok for a government to suspend parliament for much longer than necessary when important decisions are to be made? Can't have democracy only when it works in your favour, you know. (And don't bring up the referendum again. You've had a GE since. Parliament is the only democratic basis for anything, both morally and legally).

This was the longest Parliamentary session since the English Civil War, Parliament wasn't going to be sitting anyway for the majority of the time because of party conferences (only five days were lost) and it was due to return to the chamber long before Oct. 31st. As was plainly evidenced by the passing of the Ben bill, the prorogation didn't prevent Parliament from doing anything; the wailing about it has only ever been about creating artificial drama. All this does is hamper the ability of the government to get anything done via the creation of a new session. This, of course, is exactly what the Europhilic establishment - which is continuing to deny a general election - wants.

[95thrifleman]

So, in general, you think it is ok for a government to suspend parliament for much longer than necessary when important decisions are to be made? Can't have democracy only when it works in your favour, you know. (And don't bring up the referendum again. You've had a GE since. Parliament is the only democratic basis for anything, both morally and legally).

I've found, over the years, people only talk about parlimentary sovereignty when the the party they like is not in power.

[Katsumoto]

This was the longest Parliamentary session since the English Civil War, Parliament wasn't going to be sitting anyway for the majority of the time because of party conferences (only five days were lost) and it was due to return to the chamber long before Oct. 31st. As was plainly evidenced by the passing of the Ben bill, the prorogation didn't prevent Parliament from doing anything; the wailing about it has only ever been about creating artificial drama. All this does is hamper the ability of the government to get anything done via the creation of a new session. This, of course, is exactly what the Europhilic establishment - which is continuing to deny a general election - wants.

Give it a rest, guv. As the court ruled, there was no reason, let alone a good one, to suspend Parliament for five weeks instead of the customary five or so days. Bleating about this somehow hampering the government is nonsensical as well as boring. The lack of accomplishments of the government while Parliament was suspended speak for themselves.

[caratacus]

I would need to read the Court's findings, but its primary basis of the decision was that the prorogation was unjustified. It shouldn't be the position of a court to decide what or is not justified. It is a transgression of parliamentary powers. If Parliament wanted to change the way a government can prorogue then they were at liberty to do so once the Commons reconvened. Then and only then can the Court administer this procedure in law.

I do agree with Dante, that Boris Johnson has created a situation, as his intentions to prorogue announced so defiantly were bound to be challenged by a litigious opposition. Instead as has been seen, it didn’t affect the Remain majority in the Commons in stopping a no deal Brexit, and has further served to undermine his government, which looks now completely moribund. A complete complete own goal, awarded it must be said, by a questionable referee decision.

What difference is there, in when the Commons can meet, to the proper functioning of parliament, when we have a government that no longer commands the House and yet is unable to dissolve itself, rendering control to an opposition who will not allow one.

[Cope]

Give it a rest, guv. As the court ruled, there was no reason, let alone a good one, to suspend Parliament for five weeks instead of the customary five or so days. Bleating about this somehow hampering the government is nonsensical as well as boring. The lack of accomplishments of the government while Parliament was suspended speak for themselves.

The point of prorogation is to create a new parliamentary session; it has nothing to do with government "accomplishing" things during the interim period.

[95thrifleman]

I would need to read the Court's findings, but its primary basis of the decision was that the prorogation was unjustified. It shouldn't be the position of a court to decide what or is not justified. It is a transgression of parliamentary powers. If Parliament wanted to change the way a government can prorogue then they were at liberty to do so once the Commons reconvened. Then and only then can the Court administer this procedure in law.

I do agree with Dante, that Boris Johnson has created a situation, as his intentions to prorogue announced so defiantly were bound to be challenged by a litigious opposition. Instead as has been seen, it didn’t affect the Remain majority in the Commons in stopping a no deal Brexit, and has further served to undermine his government, which looks now completely moribund. A complete complete own goal, awarded it must be said, by a questionable referee decision.

What difference is there, in when the Commons can meet, to the proper functioning of parliament, when we have a government that no longer commands the House and yet is unable to dissolve itself, rendering control to an opposition who will not allow one.

This is the problem, the opposition is basicly trying to run the country without winning an election while bleating about an undemocratic government.

[TheLeft]

I’d have thought that the Brexiteers would have been delighted by today’s court verdict. After all, didn’t they want the supremacy of both Parliament and UK Law? Wasn’t that one of the major arguments put across by the Leave Campaign? Or was the Prime Minister deliberately misleading both Parliament and The Queen really what you voted for back in 2016?

[95thrifleman]

I’d have thought that the Brexiteers would have been delighted by today’s court verdict. After all, didn’t they want the supremacy of both Parliament and UK Law? Wasn’t that one of the major arguments put across by the Leave Campaign? Or was the Prime Minister deliberately misleading both Parliament and The Queen really what you voted for back in 2016?

Brexiteers ARE delighted. Bojo is now sole inheritor of the leave vote and can spin himself as the brexit martyr while Jeremy "Vlad Tepesh" Corbyn has impaled his party on his fence.

Corbyn can not delay an election indefinitely and when that day comes he's screwed.

[TheLeft]

Brexiteers ARE delighted. Bojo is now sole inheritor of the leave vote and can spin himself as the brexit martyr while Jeremy "Vlad Tepesh" Corbyn has impaled his party on his fence.

Corbyn can not delay an election indefinitely and when that day comes he's screwed.

So Boris 'the compulsive liar' Johnson, deliberately misleads Parliament, his cabinet and the Queen and your reaction is to rage at Corbyn? Ummm.. OK? You really are easily led...

He'll delay an election until after Oct 19th in order to prevent a no deal. Boris will then be forced by law to either seek an extension from the EU or resign. The Leave vote will then be split between the Brexit Party and the Tories. To be honest, I think Labour has a pretty sensible position. Renegotiate the Withdrawal Agreement then impartially put that deal to the public.

But yeah... everything is Corbyn's fault or something...