Brexit - Time to scrap it and start again?

[ioannis76]

Oh dear. Once again we have the embarrassingly illiterate view that just because you are a lefty, you must be a Leninist or something. Does this therefore mean that because you're a right winger, you're a Nazi? Or does that strange dichotomy only work one way?

The reason why I'm a remainer is actually pretty simple. Brexit means being poorer (every single economic forecast predicts that) and having less rights (no longer able to work or travel freely in the EU). I'd have thought that a right winger would appreciate that view...

We seem to have the politically illiterate view that you can be a leftist and a pro-capitalist. I wonder what the difference is between the left and the center-right, could you please enlighten this illiterate individual?

Does this therefore mean that because you're a right winger, you're a Nazi?

And yet another politically illiterate view. Nazi means National SOCIALIST. To refer to me as a socialist would be an insult, as last time I checked socialism was part of the LEFT political spectrum. In fact, many european leftist parties refer to themselves as socialist.
So, what's the difference between the left you represent, and the center right? Let's keep this in financial and administrative issues. Is there one?
You have a hard time admitting that the current "left" has basically been absorbed or rather paid off by EU salaries and very comfortable "civil servant" or NGO positions, at the same time strangulating the private sector with ridiculous taxes, some of which are very cunningly named "environmental taxes" in order to ease their leftist consciousness (if and when it wakes up from its slumber). The center-right in europe has been doing just that for decades, it seems that the left has now joined in. The path of least resistance and all that.

[Muizer]

Nazi means National SOCIALIST.

Yah, which is something they called themselves, probably for propaganda reasons. As anyone with a knowledge of socialism would know 'national socialist' is a contradiction in terms.

[Alastor]

Yah, which is something they called themselves, probably for propaganda reasons. As anyone with a knowledge of socialism would know 'national socialist' is a contradiction in terms.

Is it? Socialism is characterized by social ownership of the means of production. What in there conflicts with nationalism? The nazis wanted an alternative to internationalist Marxism and adopted a rhetoric that would lure workers away from communism and other such movements yes. I can't in good faith argue that Nazism was really about socialism, though they did favour some nationalizations. But that doesn't mean that national and socialist are by definition contradicting terms. This sounds more like a knee-jerk reaction, an attempt to expunge the sin of being even remotely associated with Hitler.

[caratacus]

To be fair Leave.EU had close links with Russia..................

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...sia-connection

Allan Banks had business interests in Russia, that doesn't prove that the Russian government had any role in political manipulation. A great many rich business folk and politicians have dealings with rich oligarchs especially in the UK, does this prove anything?
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...als/ar-AAAKWdT

This claim by the pro Remain Guardian was a cheap attempt to discredit Brexit using Russaphobia. The British people knew what they voted for, and three years later they still haven't got it! It's a common tactic of those in authoritarian governments to discredit opposition by claiming foreign influence. There is rather more evidence that any foreign influence has instead been overwhelmingly done to keep the UK in the EU.

Remainer Speaker John Bercow holds secret meeting with EU chief about holding second referendum
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit...with-eu-chief/

[Exarch]

The Brit Establishment tried to bribe Nigel Farage with an offer of a Knighthood:

Conservatives 'try to buy off Nigel Farage with a peerage' amid fears over the threat he poses in an election

Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-peerage.html

Such is the power of the Brexit Party, looks like my man Farage aint havin' none of that.

[caratacus]

The Brit Establishment tried to bribe Nigel Farage with an offer of a Knighthood:
Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-peerage.html
Such is the power of the Brexit Party, looks like my man Farage aint havin' none of that.

I cannot see Farage sitting amongst all the political cronies in the Lords, he would be more isolated than he is in Brussels. Truth is Brexit isn't just about leaving the EU but changing the UKs political system entirely, which is needing reform to make it fit for a modern democracy. The present situation demonstrates, it's simply not fit for purpose. However, many agree with abolition of the Lords, even Lord Adonis who sits there and is a Remainer.

Farage: Forget Reform, It’s Time To Abolish The Lords Altogether
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presente...ish-the-lords/
Some people are calling for reform of the House of Lords, but not Nigel Farage - he wants it abolished altogether.

[Daruwind]

So latest development so far. EU is taking time before responding to extension letter. Probably up to next week to see actual development in UK. This is again playing ball back to UK and keeping EU hands out of current UK internal political mess. Plus this is probably slightly strenghtening remain/anti no deal side as extension is not yet offered. Some words about 3 month extension were in the air...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...nsion-decision

Labours looks like to try to add second referendum next week
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...d-says-starmer

And there were some talks about posible VONC from SNP as well.

So look like we will have yet another week full of fun ahead.

[Heathen Hammer]

Fine if you have more faith in the credentials of one professional than another, but whether they're believable is still about their credentials, not about the views they expound. Forgive me, but your evaluation of journalists or politicians does not lend any credibility to their knowledge and professionalism.

Yeah, I'm just pointing out that over the last decade or so, using phrase "conspiracy theory" unironically is a good way to throw away your own credibility. If you disagree with a narrative then engage with it.

[Muizer]

Yeah, I'm just pointing out that over the last decade or so, using phrase "conspiracy theory" unironically is a good way to throw away your own credibility. If you disagree with a narrative then engage with it.

If you're a professional on a subject, yes. Otherwise, leave it to the professionals.

[Heathen Hammer]

If you're a professional on a subject, yes. Otherwise, leave it to the professionals.

What do you mean by that? For example Lysenko was a professional, but I don't think he was a person to trust, even as a scientist.

[Muizer]

What do you mean by that? For example Lysenko was a professional, but I don't think he was a person to trust, even as a scientist.

Ah well it's an interesting discussion, but perhaps a bit too abstract/off topic for this thread.

[Alastor]

Anyone knows of any good ditches? It seems BoJo can't find one.

[swabian]

Anyone knows of any good ditches? It seems BoJo can't find one.

Johnson just tries to do his best to finish this horrible, horrible job. As did the Lady before him. Europe one day will just say good bye, we don't care what your conditions and demands are. You said you'd leave us bloody continentals and it might just so happen, that the continent takes this seriously.

There is no more room for traditional British gambling and messing around with the rest of Europe. You will have to answer and you have to answer NOW! So don't butcher your own politicians who are trying to save your faces and to get it over with quickly!

[mongrel]

Why can't Boris just revoke Article 50, job done?

[95thrifleman]

Why can't Boris just revoke Article 50, job done?

Because the British people voted to leave the EU in a referendum?

[Ludicus]

Apparently, Boris lied today, "I will not negotiate a delay with the EU,

Well, Boris keep his word, and cheated the Parliament.
Boris Johnson's Brexit delay letters in full - BBC News

The PM sent three letters in all - an unsigned photocopy of the request as outlined by the Benn Act; an explanatory note from the UK's ambassador to the EU; and a personal, signed, letter saying why he does not want a delay.

-------

Labours looks like to try to add second referendum next week
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...d-says-starmer

Indeed...
PM tells Corbyn 'moment has come to approve Brexit deal' - The ...

Issuing an "appeal" to the UK parliament to approve the Brexit agreement now negotiated, Costa then revealed that earlier, at a meeting of European Socialists that preceded the European Council in Brussels, he took the opportunity to convey his position to the British opposition leader.
"Today, at the meeting of the S & D [socialists and Democrats], I had the opportunity to tell the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, who obviously … each of us has our own internal political contingencies in each of our countries, but that there is a moment where we all have to be able to put the interest of Europe and the general interest above the partisan conveniences of each one," he said.
Asked whether Corbyn was receptive to his arguments, Costa smiled and replied simply that he would see on Saturday, the day scheduled for the vote in the House of Commons on the deal that the government has reached with the EU.

As we can see, Corbyn wasn't receptive at all.

[mongrel]

Because the British people voted to leave the EU in a referendum?

They also voted for the Poll Tax, another undeliverable policy. It's history now.

[Bob69Joe]

Weird how a queen has a final say so.

No doubt the pressure is on. After years, and many voicing the "common sense," it's either Boris Johnson delivers the nation from the EU or he looks like the biggest loser even more so than May. Only a highly individualistic, bureaucratic nutcase could do that in the name of "appeasing both sides."

So far, so good anyways.

Brexit: 'I will not negotiate a delay with the EU,' Boris Johnson tells MPs after vote defeat – as it happened https://www.theguardian.com/politics...bour-live-news

To Deal, or not Deal. Now that is the question.

[TheLeft]

The Queen has no actual power and is constitutionally barred from being involved in any decision making process. While the Government and the Prime Minister act in Queen's name, she isn't allowed to be involved in the day to day business of state. The State opening of Parliament, and the Queen's role in it, is purely ceremonial. The Queen wears the world's most expensive hat and then reads out a speech prepared by the Government which outlines their legislative program for the next year. While Elizabeth Windsor is a very popular monarch, she is a powerless figurehead whose sole constitutional purpose is to rubber stamp legislation.

So she can't actually 'will' anything into action, Brexit or otherwise.

[Dekhatres]

no, this is like removing a parasite who is inflicting as much damage and pain on the host as possible in an attempt o make the host let it stay