Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22

Thread: New Era inthe US-Greece military relations.

  1. #1
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Thessalonike Greece
    Posts
    19,047

    Default New Era inthe US-Greece military relations.

    Congress passed a new law about the military aid toi Greece.
    The Congress orders the US Goverment to suplly all those systems (including F-35s) that are needed to make Greek Wrmed Forces capable to keep the peace in the eastern mediteranean!

    Source.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; June 23, 2021 at 04:02 AM. Reason: Source added. Every thread needs to include a link to a relevant article in the opening post.
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  2. #2
    Indefinitely Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    21,467

    Default Re: New Era inthe US-Greece military relations.

    Now, we'll finally see how the F-35 fares against the turkish S-400

  3. #3

    Default Re: New Era inthe US-Greece military relations.

    What the act does:
    Support for Greek Military Modernization:


    • Authorizes European Recapitalization Incentive Program (ERIP) assistance to Greece to support Greece’s transition away from Russian-produced military equipment
    • Authorizes $1.8 million per year in International Military Education and Training (IMET) assistance to Greece for FY2022 – 2026
    • Expresses the Sense of Congress that the U.S. should provide direct loans to Greece for the procurement of defense articles, defense services, and design and construction services pursuant to the further development of Greece’s military force


    Transfer of American Military Equipment to Greece:


    • Authorizes expedited delivery of any future F-35 aircraft ordered by Greece
    • Requires the Secretary of Defense, with the concurrence of the Secretary of State, to submit a report to Congress on Greece’s defense needs and how the United States will seek to address such needs through transfers of excess defense equipment to Greece

    Parliamentary Engagement within the 3+1 Framework:


    • Authorizes the establishment of an interparliamentary group among Cyprus, Greece, Israel and the United States to serve as the legislative component of the 3+1 process launched among the governments in March 2019
    If I had to guess its more about shooting off F-35s that the US Air Force itself didn't want.
    The Armenian Issue

  4. #4
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Thessalonike Greece
    Posts
    19,047

    Default Re: New Era inthe US-Greece military relations.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    What the act does:

    If I had to guess its more about shooting off F-35s that the US Air Force itself didn't want.
    You missed the point :
    Requires the Secretary of Defense, with the concurrence of the Secretary of State, to submit a report to Congress on Greece’s defense needs and how the United States will seek to address such needs through transfers of excess defense equipment to Greece
    The list that Greece requested years ago and Trump administration stoped includes:
    450 Abrams M1A2
    250 M2A2
    180 M177 light hovitzers of 155mm
    25 AAAV for Marines
    2 Ticonderoga Cruisers (that will be dicommisioned the next year)
    Modernise and cimplete all Patriot bateries to the latest version.
    Mk VI seals attack vessels
    12 Apache D version helicopters.
    The list will include more assets in Semptember with the sign od the new MCDA agreement .
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  5. #5

    Default Re: New Era inthe US-Greece military relations.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    If I had to guess its more about shooting off F-35s that the US Air Force itself didn't want.
    There is usually an economic element to such deals, but considering the bill was authored by Bob Menendez and Marco Rubio, I'm pretty sure it was meant to send a message:

    Senator Bob Menendez (D-N.J.), Ranking Member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, delivered a speech on the Senate Floor making the case for a recalibration of the U.S.-Turkey relationship based on its aggressive behavior in the region and the dramatic backsliding of democracy under President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

    “Our strongest allies should be those in NATO, those who have made a treaty commitment to mutual defense. Those who share our values. Those who work in concert with us to face the threat from countries like Russia and Iran with common cause,” said the Senator. “Unfortunately, Turkey under Erdogan embodies none of those things… Turkey under Erdogan should not and cannot be seen as an ally.”
    Menendez Makes Case for Recalibrating U.S.-Turkey Relationship Under Erdogan

    U.S. Senators Marco Rubio (R-FL) and Ron Wyden (D-OR) urged the Biden Administration to press the Turkish government to improve its human rights record, which includes an increasingly authoritarian crackdown on dissent both domestically and abroad.
    The bipartisan letter signed by more than 50 other senators cited Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan for marginalizing domestic opposition, silencing or coopting critical media outlets, purging independent judges and replacing them with party loyalists, and jailing scores of journalists.

    “President Erdogan’s foreign policy has also grown more belligerent and combative over time. In recent years, he brazenly attacked U.S.-backed Kurds fighting ISIS in Syria, he purchased Russian air defense systems despite warnings that they were incompatible with U.S. technology, and he encouraged Azerbaijan to use violence to settle a territorial dispute with Armenia,” the senators wrote. “President Erdogan has also attempted to pressure the U.S. and other countries into extraditing Turkish nationals, whom he blames for the failed coup in 2016. The Erdogan government has sought to silence critics in the United States like Enes Kanter, an NBA player and human rights advocate, by going after his family in Turkey and placing an INTERPOL red notice on him.”

    The senators note that the United States has a significant opportunity to influence Turkey’s troubling human rights record because it’s an important ally in a key region of the world.

    “We believe that the United States must hold allies and partners to a higher standard and speak frankly with them about issues of human rights and democratic backsliding,” the senators continued. “We urge you to emphasize to President Erdogan and his administration that they should immediately end their crackdown on dissent at home and abroad, release political prisoners and prisoners of conscience, and reverse their authoritarian course.”
    Rubio, Wyden Urge Biden Administration to Press Turkey on Its Troubling Human Rights Record
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  6. #6
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Thessalonike Greece
    Posts
    19,047

    Default Re: New Era inthe US-Greece military relations.

    US Congress pointed out that they suport the pipe that conects Israel, Cyprus and Greece as an alternative source of Gus to Europe to degrease the Russian influnce in that matter. Turkey with the summer of 2020 EVENTS shown as a threat to that atetmpt that has the full suport of USA and the upgrading the Greek Armed Forces (including Navy) is part of the secure of that pipe. Erdogan's attempt to create a base with UCAV's in north Cyprus has been shown as direct threat to Israel and A military analyst ( M.RUBIN) sugested that USAFE should install a Patrior battery in Cyprus defending both Cyprus and Israel.
    Last edited by AnthoniusII; June 23, 2021 at 08:37 AM.
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  7. #7

    Default Re: New Era inthe US-Greece military relations.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    There is usually an economic element to such deals, but considering the bill was authored by Bob Menendez and Marco Rubio, I'm pretty sure it was meant to send a message:
    Menendez Makes Case for Recalibrating U.S.-Turkey Relationship Under Erdogan
    Rubio, Wyden Urge Biden Administration to Press Turkey on Its Troubling Human Rights Record
    There is definitely a misguided hypocritical anti-Turkish sentiment in the US congress at the moment. No doubt about that. So, its a win win for them to highlight their stance for their Greek and Armenian voters while ignoring US actions. If I were a Greek I would wonder about the concessions the Greek government is giving behind doors to get such deals. It would be rather naive to think that its because USA wants to stand up against Turkey.
    The Armenian Issue

  8. #8

    Default Re: New Era inthe US-Greece military relations.

    Here's the thing. From the strategic point of view, the US can afford to lose all of it's allies in eastern Europe, up to (and including) Germany. But it cannot afford to lose Turkey. So that's that regarding the "US will ditch Turkey" fantasy.
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  9. #9
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Thessalonike Greece
    Posts
    19,047

    Default Re: New Era inthe US-Greece military relations.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    There is definitely a misguided hypocritical anti-Turkish sentiment in the US congress at the moment. No doubt about that. So, its a win win for them to highlight their stance for their Greek and Armenian voters while ignoring US actions. If I were a Greek I would wonder about the concessions the Greek government is giving behind doors to get such deals. It would be rather naive to think that its because USA wants to stand up against Turkey.
    Greece in tot naive. It knows that USA needs both Greece and Cyprus to secure Israel. Also for the first time since 1974 Turkey has no VETO abillity to stop US military suport because its not NATO that modernise Greek Armed Forces but USA!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gromovnik View Post
    Here's the thing. From the strategic point of view, the US can afford to lose all of it's allies in eastern Europe, up to (and including) Germany. But it cannot afford to lose Turkey. So that's that regarding the "US will ditch Turkey" fantasy.
    True. USA would never allow Turkey:
    a) To join Russia
    b) To join China
    c) Become a more advanced in technology new IRAN in the region it conciders crusial for US interests.
    So i would not be surpriced if the 2023 that the next ellections are in Turkey if Erdogan wins a new coop will emerge bringing him down reminding us Sadam Husein!
    Turkey is too valuable for USA to leave it in the hands of Islamists.
    Remember that 3 months ago Iniochos Air exersices in Greece the Isrealy planes tested a low pass attack against heavily defended target. Aquyu (if i am writing it write) will be the next Isrealy target just like it did with the Iraqi and syrian nucleal plants in the past. Turkey is valueble but Israel wont tollerate a new nuclear threat in it north borders.
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  10. #10

    Default Re: New Era inthe US-Greece military relations.

    Israel won't attack Turkey. They're cooperating pretty closely, they have no reason to start a war with Turkey, and strong Turkey wrecking Syria and Iraq is in their interest. And also, wars don't start on a weekly basis for the most trivial of reasons. Real life is not a Total War or a Paradox game.
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  11. #11

    Default Re: New Era inthe US-Greece military relations.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    Greece in tot naive. It knows that USA needs both Greece and Cyprus to secure Israel. Also for the first time since 1974 Turkey has no VETO abillity to stop US military suport because its not NATO that modernise Greek Armed Forces but USA!
    Greece and Southern Cyprus has no security value for Israel. It's a delusional idea to think that Israel would strike any location on Turkey.
    The Armenian Issue

  12. #12
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Thessalonike Greece
    Posts
    19,047

    Default Re: New Era inthe US-Greece military relations.

    US former officials have different view than yours. Read my previus posts.
    Now read what former SEA Bolton wrote about Turkeyand that explains the gravity of greece's importance for USA today.
    Last edited by AnthoniusII; June 24, 2021 at 09:21 AM.
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  13. #13
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
    Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Chania, Greece
    Posts
    24,758

    Default Re: New Era inthe US-Greece military relations.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    You missed the point :

    The list that Greece requested years ago and Trump administration stoped includes:
    450 Abrams M1A2
    250 M2A2
    180 M177 light hovitzers of 155mm
    25 AAAV for Marines
    2 Ticonderoga Cruisers (that will be dicommisioned the next year)
    Modernise and cimplete all Patriot bateries to the latest version.
    Mk VI seals attack vessels
    12 Apache D version helicopters.
    The list will include more assets in Semptember with the sign od the new MCDA agreement .

    What the heck are we going to do with all those tanks? F-35s I can understand. A few ships yes. The Apache helicopters are more than welcome and they can also be used to find the buttholes that bring illegal immigrants to Greece.
    But Tanks? Attack Vessels? Who is picking up the gas bill and how much do that hardware cost us?
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
    _______________________________________________________
    Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.
    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  14. #14

    Default Re: New Era inthe US-Greece military relations.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    US former officials have different view than yours. Read my previus posts.
    Now read what former SEA Bolton wrote about Turkeyand that explains the gravity of greece's importance for USA today.
    I have seen nothing in there that even remotely support what you claim.
    The Armenian Issue

  15. #15

    Default Re: New Era inthe US-Greece military relations.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post

    What the heck are we going to do with all those tanks? F-35s I can understand. A few ships yes. The Apache helicopters are more than welcome and they can also be used to find the buttholes that bring illegal immigrants to Greece.
    But Tanks? Attack Vessels? Who is picking up the gas bill and how much do that hardware cost us?
    Just borrow the money. What could possibly go wrong?

    I assume the requested tanks are meant to replace older vehicles. Recently the US gave Greece some surplus Bradley M2A2 infantry fighting vehicles that were meant to replace old M113 armored personnel carries.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  16. #16
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
    Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Chania, Greece
    Posts
    24,758

    Default Re: New Era inthe US-Greece military relations.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Just borrow the money. What could possibly go wrong?

    I assume the requested tanks are meant to replace older vehicles. Recently the US gave Greece some surplus Bradley M2A2 infantry fighting vehicles that were meant to replace old M113 armored personnel carries.
    We don't have 450 tanks to replace. We have 250 leopards and they're more modern than the Abrams tanks we're been offered.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
    _______________________________________________________
    Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.
    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  17. #17

    Default Re: New Era inthe US-Greece military relations.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    We don't have 450 tanks to replace. We have 250 leopards and they're more modern than the Abrams tanks we're been offered.
    Well I wouldn't know, but the sources the Wikipedia page cites claim otherwise - scroll down to "main battle tanks". Maybe you guys just need massive reserves stockpiled for your big push on Constantinople. I'm sure it's coming any day now.

    It doesn't hurt to make the request I guess, but I don't think more than some small portion of it will be forthcoming. Greece is obviously not the only ally asking for our surplus stuffs, and there is only so much of it to go around. Some senators wanting to put Erdogan in his place will only go so far.
    Last edited by sumskilz; June 25, 2021 at 02:51 AM. Reason: reserves not reverses
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  18. #18
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Thessalonike Greece
    Posts
    19,047

    Default Re: New Era inthe US-Greece military relations.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    We don't have 450 tanks to replace. We have 250 leopards and they're more modern than the Abrams tanks we're been offered.
    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Well I wouldn't know, but the sources the Wikipedia page cites claim otherwise - scroll down to "main battle tanks". Maybe you guys just need massive reserves stockpiled for your big push on Constantinople. I'm sure it's coming any day now.

    It doesn't hurt to make the request I guess, but I don't think more than some small portion of it will be forthcoming. Greece is obviously not the only ally asking for our surplus stuffs, and there is only so much of it to go around. Some senators wanting to put Erdogan in his place will only go so far.
    We have 750 Leo-1 A5 to replace.
    In 2014 US goverment offered 450 M1A2 Abrams tanks to start replacing the old light Leo-1.
    Germany made a "veto" with th eexcuse that if Greece would have military aid would bnoit pay its dets.
    The origianl plan was the manufacture of 270 LEO-2A6HELL BUT the next Greek goverment puth th ecountry more deep in to dets and they were manufactured only 170.
    These days the new military deal about US bases and facillities in Greece brought to ligt th eold list of requests. That ACT we are talking today in this thread has two sections.
    1st 25mil dollars eaxh year to allow Greece to buy nessesary parts to restore the availabilities of its means and the OFFER of as MANY military assets Greece will request to replace Russian made weapons and modernise its armed forces.
    That ACT makes clear that USA sees Greece -Cyprus and Israel as an axis of stabillity that require some help to maintain. ISREAL and Egypt take billions of dollars but Greece as NATO membr can NOT recieve cash. ALL IT CAN TAKE IS A NUMBER OF WEAPONTS VIA FMF deals.
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  19. #19

    Default Re: New Era inthe US-Greece military relations.

    It's baseless to see Greece or Southern Cyprus as stabilizing forces. What are they gonna stabilize? Arming them does the opposite effect. Any reserve equipment thrown at Greece is likely to cost Greece to maintain in the long run or left to rot. Keep in mind the list thrown here is thrown as Greece's request, not what USA is sending over.
    The Armenian Issue

  20. #20
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Thessalonike Greece
    Posts
    19,047

    Default Re: New Era inthe US-Greece military relations.

    Sutre. The luck of F-16 spare parts that Turkey is hard to find throw the country to replace planes with UAVs. But eventually Turkey will be forced either to submit to US demands to see it planes on that air or find hard coin to buy new planes. With Turkey's economy that is also hard. That reminds germany in the end of 1938! Germany went to war unprepaored bluffing (Chechoslavakia could crash Germany in that year) because it had no either choices. Turkey now is in a dangeruss crossraod.
    It can continue provoke Greece-Cyprus- Israel-Egypt hopping to a bluff but bluffs do not always work.
    The other choice is a heroic exodus invading Cyprus or Greece hopping that while still has some superiority in numbers it will win lands before its armed forces run out of petrol and prare parts.
    USA knows that and that is why calls the axis Greece-Cyprus-Israel a stabilise force. Remember taht the Turkish nuclear plant is not that far away for Israel to make it a pile of dust. It wont tolerate a northern Iran near it.
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •