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Thread: Those Damn Indefensible Island Port Cities

  1. #1

    Default Those Damn Indefensible Island Port Cities

    I'm playing Rome against Carthage, and the punic wars are a chore in this game. It is completely impossible to defend all those little island towns from sicily to sardinia. Every time I move my army one place, they take another one from the sea. It's impossible to defend them all, because I don't have enough money for upkeep to keep an army everywhere. It's chaotic and displeasing. Any advice how to deal with that?
    Last edited by CIaagent11; December 03, 2017 at 12:42 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Those Damn Indefensible Island Port Cities

    Do what the Romans did IRL; Make a BIG fleet.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Those Damn Indefensible Island Port Cities

    I avoided taking the islands till I was a bit stronger. To beat Carthage you have to invest heavily in navy and I wanted to research other things.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Those Damn Indefensible Island Port Cities

    I suppose I have to be a little bigger than 7 regions before I take on the carthaginians. Although the romans weren't. And I don't want to go east before the second punic war, because the romans had that fight when they were still fairly provincial. It was that experience that brought them onto the main stage. Maybe get cisalpine gaul and narbonensis.
    Last edited by CIaagent11; December 04, 2017 at 01:16 PM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Those Damn Indefensible Island Port Cities

    no, you don't need more than Latium Italia and Sicily in order to have a good economy enough to support at least 1 full navy :/ You should at least controle Syracusa before you focus on the navy. before that just make the best land army you can (which is very easy with Rome).

  6. #6

    Default Re: Those Damn Indefensible Island Port Cities

    I will try that.

    Anybody got an idea how I could mod the game so port cities are defensible? I thought about going as far as removing navies from the game, but that wouldn't work. And adding invisible walls doesnt work for port cities. In general this port city mechanic is worse than in RTW.
    Last edited by ♔Greek Strategos♔; February 28, 2018 at 09:03 AM. Reason: Double Posts.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Those Damn Indefensible Island Port Cities

    I was also a bit annoyed with this on early stages of the game when garrisons are very weak. Try to add marines to city ports and maybe a bit cavalry that can easily deal with landed ranged troops that are usually 60% of the fleet. Even 1 cavalry squad makes defense way easier. I think adding more garrisons to such cities is just easiest solution. Or make your own fleet to help with defense.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Those Damn Indefensible Island Port Cities

    op wrong post.

    Anyway, I don't understand the big issue with naval invasions :/. Just have naval superiority with at least 1 good fleet, and at worst have an army standing in sicily between the two leftmost towns so you can reinforce both of them at the same time if necessary.

    There's no need to make garrisons better than they are. tbh with auto resolve you can defeat most navies with your tier 3 settlement garrison for some reason. you will have a bigger issue if you're trying to fight a realtime battle with a garrison against a full fleet of carthaginian marines, archers, and artillery. the naval units' advantage in HP will defeat your garrison no matter what.
    Last edited by hoho96; December 07, 2017 at 11:30 AM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Those Damn Indefensible Island Port Cities

    Quote Originally Posted by CIaagent11 View Post
    Anybody got an idea how I could mod the game so port cities are defensible? I thought about going as far as removing navies from the game, but that wouldn't work. And adding invisible walls doesn't work for port cities. In general this port city mechanic is worse than in RTW.
    I have been greatly surprised by DEI the last few weeks. The AI seems to be using their navies MUCH better. I was gone for 6 months so not sure what changed but it has been fantastic. I also had my first civil war at Imperium 3! Awesome.

    Either let the garrison replenish, bring a fleet, build a lvl 2 barracks in every town (has a cav unit), place a general there, or build your economy more for more armies. Plenty of choices.

    And you want to remove the navy? What difficulty are you playing on? DEI has been much harder since 1.2 but has been toned down because of complaints. Try Normal/Normal and if more help is needed, then try the SoftCore submod. Or if you want a walk through try Easy/Easy with the softcore mod.

    Can you load your save? I like trying difficult situations. Thanks.

    If you need help, ask.

    Remember the 1st Punic War lasted 23 years and the Romans never got off Sicily. They didn't get Corsica and Sardinia until the Carthaginians were fighting for their life in the Mercenary War. Rome and Carthage are polar opposites militarily and its supposed to be difficult. Like Athens and Sparta who took 27 years to fight each other because they were so different. In both instances, the land power prevailed by building a navy and winning at sea.

    Hannibal tried to change that in the 2nd Punic War but without controlling the seas, it turned out to be impossible, among other things.

    JMO. Thank you DEI team for the challenges.
    Last edited by JCB206; January 05, 2018 at 11:42 AM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Those Damn Indefensible Island Port Cities

    Quote Originally Posted by CIaagent11 View Post
    Anybody got an idea how I could mod the game so port cities are defensible? I thought about going as far as removing navies from the game, but that wouldn't work. And adding invisible walls doesnt work for port cities. In general this port city mechanic is worse than in RTW.
    For Sicily specifcally you should be able to defend the island relatively easily with one stack, give or take. Definitely less if you have it settled to the point where you can count on replenishment. What I like to do is first, the obvious: you park a small stack in Syracuse, whatever amount you decide is enough to repel direct city invasions. Next, you take the rest of your units and you park them right between Lilybaum and Argas. The settlements reinforcement ranges overlap so you can defend both settlements with one army. Kind of a nice advantage on the island.

    Sardina et Corsica is always inconvenient because your armies end up being so isolated that their impact is rather limited but still expensive. Generally, you have to split an army there as well. I usually just take Africa after Sicily and come back for Corsica et Sardina later. By then their navy is much more manageable and the economic engine is roaring.

    It's also good to try and always have at least some kind of small navy so you can wreck any unprotected transports. That is nice tool that will repel an invasion or two. Or parking it at a nice port to get the garrison ships included too and then crippling the army as they try to beach.
    Last edited by Satansblofish; January 07, 2018 at 01:38 PM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Those Damn Indefensible Island Port Cities

    Yeah, I agree about Sardinia et Corsica, ideally i postpone any war with Carthage until I got at least a large fleet and at least 1 legion for those 2 islands alone, so I can use the fleet to help take both and then use it to guard one of the 2.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Those Damn Indefensible Island Port Cities

    Funny someone complains about this because I found it along with supply lines (though the losses too small when out of supplies only couple hundred per turn out of army of +3000? Should be 500 per turn).

    Carthage having navies that are a real threat is great! I was definitely surprised to find my attempt to sail unescorted armies from Rome to Corsica rudely intercepted by Carthage's fleets. Then later when opting the southern route instead I sent a big clump of 4 armies + small navy from Panormus to Sardinia leaving only 1 army in Sicily. I wasn't paying attention to the way the city reinforcement zones overlapped and once that army replenished I assaulted Akragas the last Carthaginian stronghold on the island and instantly both Panormus and my army + small escort fleet which wasn't able to land on Sardinia were hit by Carthage. It really felt like I was Rome losing armies on the seas left and right having to postpone civic construction and reshuffling politics after losing 2 generals to raise new armies and keep all the political parties balanced.

    Learned my lesson and sent my armies in Sardinia far to the north out of the Carthaginian fleet's range on their way home and converted the trade port in Syracuse to a military wharf and built 2 fleets which really set me back economically when a small war vs Liguria to finish securing Cisalpine Italy had Helvetii and Trevarii intervene with 2 armies each plus the 3 Ligurian armies I thought my 2 newly reconstituted Legions would be enough to handle. Luckily my client kingdom of Basileon Odryoson finished conquering Greece to go along with Thrace and Macedonia it already controlled bumping my Imperium up enough to get 2 additional armies. Still ended up losing 3 settlements while trying not to lose the northern armies that were the only defence in Italy for several turns. Had a whole series of battles vs the Celts that came down to my 3 Triarii and General vs 6-7 enemy units. Also learned not to go cheap with cavalry when fighting the Celts from those battles.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Those Damn Indefensible Island Port Cities

    I usually postpone naval activities with Carthage until I have a military port and have started to gobble up Iberia, so I can divert their forces from all sides, then I usually invade Corsica and Sardinia before focusing on Africa. As far as naval cities go, after i get rank 3 cities I feel relatively save to guard Syracusae with a full fleet of small warships and a stack each in the other towns.

  14. #14
    ♔Greek Strategos♔'s Avatar THE BEARDED MACE
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    Default Re: Those Damn Indefensible Island Port Cities

    Quote Originally Posted by Ichon View Post
    Funny someone complains about this because I found it along with supply lines (though the losses too small when out of supplies only couple hundred per turn out of army of +3000? Should be 500 per turn).

    Carthage having navies that are a real threat is great! I was definitely surprised to find my attempt to sail unescorted armies from Rome to Corsica rudely intercepted by Carthage's fleets. Then later when opting the southern route instead I sent a big clump of 4 armies + small navy from Panormus to Sardinia leaving only 1 army in Sicily. I wasn't paying attention to the way the city reinforcement zones overlapped and once that army replenished I assaulted Akragas the last Carthaginian stronghold on the island and instantly both Panormus and my army + small escort fleet which wasn't able to land on Sardinia were hit by Carthage. It really felt like I was Rome losing armies on the seas left and right having to postpone civic construction and reshuffling politics after losing 2 generals to raise new armies and keep all the political parties balanced.

    Learned my lesson and sent my armies in Sardinia far to the north out of the Carthaginian fleet's range on their way home and converted the trade port in Syracuse to a military wharf and built 2 fleets which really set me back economically when a small war vs Liguria to finish securing Cisalpine Italy had Helvetii and Trevarii intervene with 2 armies each plus the 3 Ligurian armies I thought my 2 newly reconstituted Legions would be enough to handle. Luckily my client kingdom of Basileon Odryoson finished conquering Greece to go along with Thrace and Macedonia it already controlled bumping my Imperium up enough to get 2 additional armies. Still ended up losing 3 settlements while trying not to lose the northern armies that were the only defence in Italy for several turns. Had a whole series of battles vs the Celts that came down to my 3 Triarii and General vs 6-7 enemy units. Also learned not to go cheap with cavalry when fighting the Celts from those battles.
    You're having a interesting game as it seems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dardo21 View Post
    I usually postpone naval activities with Carthage until I have a military port and have started to gobble up Iberia, so I can divert their forces from all sides, then I usually invade Corsica and Sardinia before focusing on Africa. As far as naval cities go, after i get rank 3 cities I feel relatively save to guard Syracusae with a full fleet of small warships and a stack each in the other towns.
    Yeah...That's the plan. A direct assault will surely get destroyed easily, by a combined Carthaginian navy-army
    Last edited by ♔Greek Strategos♔; February 28, 2018 at 09:01 AM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Those Damn Indefensible Island Port Cities

    Don't take Syracuse out early on. Make them a client state. Let them defend their own city and help you out with their navy. You can take them out after you have secured Corsica and Sardinia. This helps keep your coasts much more secure.

    It is EXTREMELY easy to defend Sicily with a single half stack in fortify stance placed between the two small towns. You will reinforce either city if they are attacked. The 10 extra units with either small town being level 2 will give you enough forces to fight off any naval invasion Carthage can throw at you.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Those Damn Indefensible Island Port Cities

    I've managed to capture Sicily + Corsica with 2 armies and one fleet. The trcik is to station one army between the costal villages in Sicily and your army can support both of them, and you should use youre fleet to ambush cartagians. You need night attack and formidable marine trait to take them out one by one. A fleet must be have 12-15 ships and use tiremes they have the best value for money.

  17. #17
    Slashas's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Those Damn Indefensible Island Port Cities

    Land 1-2 arimes at Carthage before you take syracuse, then when they declare war just stomp their capital to the ground and make a base there

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