Units stats after the patch on 30/11/2017 (Steam version)

[viperax]

Hi guys,

After the today's patch, when I wanted to continue my spartan campaign, I've seen that the units stats are changed. Example:

My Neohomoioi Hoplitai has 33 melee defence and I know for sure that it had 80+, and 9 armor when it had 14.

Was this intended, are those the new values, or is the mod currently not 100% updated?

Thank you all in advance!

[Dresden]

Yes, you can read about it in the steam change notes or look at the previous change notes in the download thread.

Battle Changes
Due to extensive testing we were able to track certain parts of the battle engine that did not work as we wanted to or thought that we do not have sufficient control:
- Hit chance. This value is calculated like this: (Melee Attack + Base Hit chance) - Melee defence = Hit chance. Final value can't go below minimum hit chance and above max hit chance. This meant that before if a unit had 40 melee attack (so around elite status), 15% base hit chance and was attacking a unit of medium quality (60+ defence), the overall calculation was 55-60=-5. As you can see, this meant that pretty much most units would get negative hit chance. But, since minimum hit chance was at 10% no matter what, most units would hit that 10% most of the time, meaning that overall melee and defence stats did not matter (And also explained why falx unist were that good as they were able to hit above 10%).
- In new stat system, minimum hit chance got lowered to 5% while overall unit melee attack was increased and melee defence lowered. This means that unit stats matter a lot more.
- Overall defence, while lowered, matters a lot more now as the values rely more on personal defence than on shield defence as before. Due to errors in combat calculations, shields seem to be also included for flanking combat and were not affected by fatigue, making an exhausted unit not that much of a weaker target.
- Flanking and fatigue are much more important as the penalties for them are applied correctly.
- Cavalry charges should work better and be more consistent as their hit chance and damage will be correctly applied
- Certain units, especially those with small shields and with two handed weapons, have good starting defence but since personal defence skill is lowered by fatigue they tend to suffer more than units with good shields. This means that certain shock units will be very good at early stages of combat but if the line will hold, the roles might reverse.
- Units of marines slightly nerfed, few slightly buffed.
-Added Formation Attack to some Roman units (For testing purpose, not yet added for all, please report how it works) - with changes I made in past few months Formation Attack seems to behave a lot better
-Added more realistic spacing for most of ranged infantry, overtime it will be tweaked to be more unit specific (like some being more disciplined, some in more spaced out order), please report how it performs

[leonardusius]

Yes, you can read about it in the steam change notes or look at the previous change notes in the download thread.

Battle Changes
Due to extensive testing we were able to track certain parts of the battle engine that did not work as we wanted to or thought that we do not have sufficient control:
- Hit chance. This value is calculated like this: (Melee Attack + Base Hit chance) - Melee defence = Hit chance. Final value can't go below minimum hit chance and above max hit chance. This meant that before if a unit had 40 melee attack (so around elite status), 15% base hit chance and was attacking a unit of medium quality (60+ defence), the overall calculation was 55-60=-5. As you can see, this meant that pretty much most units would get negative hit chance. But, since minimum hit chance was at 10% no matter what, most units would hit that 10% most of the time, meaning that overall melee and defence stats did not matter (And also explained why falx unist were that good as they were able to hit above 10%).
-
-Added Formation Attack to some Roman units (For testing purpose, not yet added for all, please report how it works) - with changes I made in past few months Formation Attack seems to behave a lot better
-Added more realistic spacing for most of ranged infantry, overtime it will be tweaked to be more unit specific (like some being more disciplined, some in more spaced out order), please report how it performs

That 2 last improvements are very welcomed. I suggest to give FA to all high tier units.

[washimara]

Hey guys, I've been playing new DeI Campaign with Macedon just now, I also played one yesterday. I noticed all my unit got buffed atack and nerfed defense across the board. For example Levi Hoplite got 43 attack rate and 28 defense rate, while before he got something like 35 attack and 50 o 60ish defense. My bronze shield pikes got similar stats 48 attack and 22 defense, also when they were going into pike or phalanx mode, defense were drastically improved as armor. I can clearly remember seeing pike wall with more then 100 defense, now, when in pike wall they got less defense then in normal mode and less atack, which is expected.

So my question is how to understand the unit stats, and why slingers got very similar stats of 37 attack and 24 defense to a pike unit. I'm pretty confused. Combatwise I do suffer more casualties now after the battle is done while doing exactly the same strategies i was doing before.

[viperax]

Thank you! Another think that I've seen, is that my generals skill are gone. This means that I currently have a rank 8 general with only the basic skill: Luck lvl 1. Can this be addressed, or should I just change my general and continue with a new one?

[Dresden]

Merged threads dealing with unit stat questions.

@viperax yes missing skills in existing campaigns are going to happen due to the new skill tier UI. They should be there still if you hover over his effects I think? But wont display. New games should not have that issue.

[washimara]

Thanks for the explanation! So from what I understand now, the defensive units will perform worse then before, for example, a light cav flank hit to my pikes, while they trying to face the cav, is almost routed my brozne shield pikes, they were managed able to turn, but I imagine a raw back cav hit, even a light missle cav, would have routed them. I do remember yesterday, holding a defensive stance, and beeing atack by fullstack of thracians, and holding an entrance with 2 pikes each, I imagine at this point such human designed strategies won't work anymore and would need to be more realistic to win ?

If so, I imagine playing on very hard, isn't very viable anymore for some factons as Macedon for example, because you need to do some of these things in the begining to be able to overcome some of the initial wars.

[Dresden]

KAM will be able to explain this much better than I can, I will leave it to him to do a more thorough explanation. But, yes the stat changes were intended and are part of our stat overhaul that we have been working on here on TWC (in the standalone version) for a few months now.

[KAM 2150]

Defence actually means more now as before every unit had same defence/melee attack due to fault in calculation (which also applies to base game any many mods). This also meant that flanking did not matter much before. Now you need to be more careful but also stats actually make sense now.

[washimara]

Defence actually means more now as before every unit had same defence/melee attack due to fault in calculation (which also applies to base game any many mods). This also meant that flanking did not matter much before. Now you need to be more careful but also stats actually make sense now.

So for example, if I take a look of Levi Hoplite unit and compare it to Brozne shield pikemen just based on the stats I see, I don't clearly see that the pikes are that much superior in terms of defense, or how should expect them to perfom vs units with similar stats. Maybe i'm missing something, but before when I saw a melee unit with lets say 50 attack and 80 defense vs unit vs 40 attack and 70 defense, I knew that by some margin the first unit would win in front to front combat, now its a bit confusing to note this.

[KAM 2150]

You can't judge phalanx unit that way as their formation gives them bonuses to defence from the game engine as they are able to push enemies back and perform attacks from few rows.

In state example you brought, unit that would win would be the unit with higher armor as both would have same attack (since with that defence values their attack would go in fact into negative).

Obviously there will be more work coming but now we can finally FULLY control hit chance between units. So for example unit experience also means more.

[washimara]

Have you guys noticed that the generals are more easily killed now ? I just reloaded few times because in seamingly easy situations my general has fallen while the total unit count is still very high, specially with macedonian sacred squadron cav 150 units. Got hit 4 times by greek javelin cav from the front while standing, 24 kills on the the unit, general dead. I don't remember a time when I lost a general before in my previous few campaigns of more then 300 turns.

[KAM 2150]

It was alway random, depends on where he stands. I once had a charge where only casuality on my side was the general. Also odd to take such conclusion after single instance (in which it made snese by the way).

[Dead*Man*Wilson]

Yea, jav cav can be absolutely deadly. Generals can get murked with just a volley of two. Nothing new.

[vivv Kraken]

Is there a way to keep playing on the previous version?

[KAM 2150]

I struggle to see the point of doing that.

[vivv Kraken]

New game mechanics introduced mid campaign.
Graphics changed, in my inital opinion for the worse.
Ui changed, in my opinion for the worse.
Unit stats drastically changed.

Does this help your struggle?
I want to atleast complete the campaign befoure I start playing a new game.

[KAM 2150]

It was said multiple times, you just need to roll back to previous version of the game (to patch 17) and downlaod previous DeI version for patch 17 from here.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ed-November-30

We haven't changed the graphics unless you have graphical bugs.

[Dresden]

I dont see how having new UI trees and unit descriptions is worse

[ThorBardy]

So do i understand right. There is finaly the newest version of DeI available for steam. With all the new mechanics and the stat and greek overall.

Must I renew the mods in Steam or is this automatically added.
Sorry obly played the steam Version.

Thanks for your answers.

Is the population thing also included?


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