How did phalanxes siege cites ?

**romy** · November 23, 2017, 03:10 PM

Hi there,

I've always wondered how armies made of phalanxes as their core sieged cities.

I'm aware that there were assault troops, hoplites, mercenaries and other "non sarissa units" in such armies but what was the role of Phalangitai during sieges ? Do they were attacking in the streets in phalanx formations ? How commanders used them ?

Thanks for enlightening me about this.

**QuintusSertorius** · November 23, 2017, 03:42 PM

They used different weapons to participate. Alexander's phalanx, which he inherited from his father, were dual-trained as skirmishers. They'd use javelins or take up spears to engage in the assault.

**svramj** · November 25, 2017, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius

They used different weapons to participate. Alexander's phalanx, which he inherited from his father, were dual-trained as skirmishers. They'd use javelins or take up spears to engage in the assault.

Is it possible to implement it in-game? A pike as a primary weapon and a short-spear/sword as a secondary weapon?

**Slaytaninc** · November 25, 2017, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by svramj

Is it possible to implement it in-game? A pike as a primary weapon and a short-spear/sword as a secondary weapon?

Yes, it's possible to implement but it's counter-productive, as it means they will drop their pikes and switch to their secondary weapon as soon as an enemy closes in on them.

**QuintusSertorius** · November 25, 2017, 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by svramj

Is it possible to implement it in-game? A pike as a primary weapon and a short-spear/sword as a secondary weapon?

Originally Posted by Slaytaninc

Yes, it's possible to implement but it's counter-productive, as it means they will drop their pikes and switch to their secondary weapon as soon as an enemy closes in on them.

This; infantry can't have two melee weapons, it's thoroughly broken in M2TW.

**gerfand** · November 23, 2017, 05:35 PM

U mean assaulted?
Well, the siege is simple, u just need to put enough men in a way that the enemy cannot escape or get supplies, this anyone can do...
Now about the Assault, well, there are multiple possibilities:
Using Artillery to land on the walls w/out opposition, or even breaking the walls if those are weak enough
using Rams to break the wall or weak them to
use Ladders or Siege Towers to get into the walls.

There are titles that the ones that attacked the walls were actually the Hypapistais

EDIT now that I actually read u point, well depends, they would probably be placed in logical places, so not be placed on tiny roads... maybe they used only one half of the sarissa (as it could be divided in two parts)

**Rad** · November 24, 2017, 10:59 AM

I'm with Quintus on this one. They ditched the pikes for more manageable close quarters weapons.

**Geffalrus** · November 26, 2017, 06:25 PM

One thing to mention is that the sarissa likely was a pike that came in two pieces joined by a metal sleeve. So when the phalanx wanted to assault a city, they would likely only bring the front part of the pike to the battle.

**QuintusSertorius** · November 27, 2017, 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by Geffalrus

One thing to mention is that the sarissa likely was a pike that came in two pieces joined by a metal sleeve. So when the phalanx wanted to assault a city, they would likely only bring the front part of the pike to the battle.

That sounds unlikely to me, unless the socket that joined them also doubled as an effective counter-weight. More likely the pikes were simply packed away and they used other weapons.

**Geffalrus** · November 27, 2017, 08:01 AM

You can see it described in "An Invincible Beast: Understanding the Hellenistic Pike-Phalanx at War" by Christopher Matthew. We may never know for sure, but the author brings together some decent evidence that a two-part pike makes more sense than a one-part pike. After all, it's easier to make two long pieces of wood rather than one super long piece of wood. Two part pikes also make repair in the field much easier. More efficient use of wood.

I believe that the metal sleeve used to join the two pieces would also double as a counter-weight for the front section, due to how the pike probably used a fairly small spearhead (otherwise the sarissa itself would have been even harder to wield). It's an option for how the phalangites could have entered melee in a city assault. The existing Peltastai Makedonoi is the other good option. I think both options could have been used in different situations. Like climbing a ladder or scaling sheer surfaces only makes sense with the sword and a couple javelins. Leading a charge through a wall breach, on the other hand, may have been better served using the front-pike portion and its superior reach.

Again, it's all very theoretical - we don't have perfect evidence either way.