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Thread: Any hints for Carthage?

  1. #1

    Default Any hints for Carthage?

    Hi!

    I'll be the first to admit that I probably don't grasp too well all the complexities of EBII, but I really like this mod.
    I would like to play as Carthage, but I'd be grateful if someone could provide me with some hits and tips as to how to play.
    I'm mainly interested in first steps - my initial thoughs: rush Sicilia and then focus on Iberian Peninsula - but I'd also be grateful for thoughts on what to build and how do the governments work.
    Also - apart from one General all other have been "rejected" by their men. Is there any way to get them "confirmed"? Or can I have only one general who is not a moron at a given time?

    Best regards and many thanks

  2. #2
    Christianus's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Any hints for Carthage?

    Hello! Check out the Player Guide for EBII 2.3 at this link:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...s-and-Colonies
    Ὦ ξεῖν', ἀγγέλλειν Λακεδαιμονίοις ὅτι τῇδε
    κείμεθα, τοῖς κείνων ῥήμασι πειθόμενοι.
    - Σιμωνίδης ὁ Κεῖος

  3. #3

    Default Re: Any hints for Carthage?

    I think you can only have one main general at a time, whereas you can have multiple sub-generals who can also lead armies(these guys won't be rejected by the camp FTR). Rushing Sicily and then Iberia certainly isn't a bad idea by any stretch. Be careful of capturing Nertobriga and Kontrebia in Iberia, though--as capturing those while rebel will result in war being declared upon by the Lusitani and Celtiberians respectively. I am not sure if there's any specific way to avoid being rejected by the camp--Carthaginian traits weren't designed by me, but by SamueleD(long before I started helping out in traits), so there is still a fair bit I don't understand about the system.

    Their colony system is very fun IMO, since it provides so many foreign mercs in the recruitment pool, that you'd never find in said regions except as Carthage(eg. Ligurian mercs in N. Africa, Iberians in N. Africa).

  4. #4

    Default Re: Any hints for Carthage?

    During wartime, you can elect one of your FMs to the position of general. Mind, it can be a tad janky from time to time. Seems like Genghis Skahn has covered this.

    There are four provinces with hr_punic, which include Lilubim, Arig, Adrumer, and Qart-Hadasht. In your mid- and late-game, you'll be leaning quite heavily on colonists, and they are accrued every 4 years by Council Administration, which you can only build in the aforementioned provinces. Generally run low taxes in these provinces, and build Waystations and Garrisons so you'll be able to upgrade the settler colonies when the provinces finally grow into cities. Also mind in order to grow population to 6000, you'll either need a level 3 temple of Tanit or a govenor who decreases squalor (supervisor, lenient, or benevolent ruler, for example). I know it can be tempting to use colonists as soon as you get them, but once your towns start getting close to 6000 population, go ahead and start saving your colonists.

    The main problem with rushing eastern Sicily (Messana, really) is that it will plunge you into war with Rome. An early war with Rome is possible to win, but it will likely be harder than you might expect. Rome really can be pretty scrappy in most campaigns.

    Honestly, I might suggest you take Syrakuse, Rhegion, and Tarentum: if you rush Rhegion, Rome won't have gotten to it. Tarentum starts the campaign belonging to Epeiros, but it is almost always conquered by Rome. Assuming that's the case, sneak a spy into the province and try to get it to defect back to Epeiros before you attack it. The general goal is getting a foothold and establishing your presence in Italia a bit before starting a war with Rome. On a side note, hoplites are fairly sturdy, especially in the beginning of the campaign. Settler colonies in Rhegion and Tarentum will allow you to recruit hoplites, so I'd suggest building colonies to at least level 1 there.

    As a quick aside, you may want to run large garrisons in eastern Sicily and southern Italia. These provinces have Greek poleis in them, and in order to proc philhellenos, you'll need the population to be at least content. Moreover, if you run normal taxes in them and the population is content, your governors begin picking up points in Just, which is an excellent trait.

    It's perhaps also worth noting that large settler colonies preclude the construction of level 2 and 3 local military colonies. There is a way around this (wait until the reform, build punic kleruchy, construct native colonies, then go back and build the large settler colonies). That having been said, it isn't a huge deal, so you may not need to worry about it.

    If you wanted to stomp the Numidians (careful, because there's a script for rebels to spawn in certain provinces if you aren't allied to the Numidians), then send a small fleet to the Ptolemies to blockade one of their ports. The AI usually sides with their other ally over you, which means you can attack the Numidians without being as much of a backstabber. On the other hand, I'd say that conquering the Numidian provinces is low-priority, at least in the early game. Kinda depends on how ambitious you are.
    Last edited by rhavviepoodle; November 18, 2017 at 10:54 AM.

  5. #5
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Any hints for Carthage?

    Quote Originally Posted by rhavviepoodle View Post
    If you wanted to stomp the Numidians (careful, because there's a script for rebels to spawn in certain provinces if you aren't allied to the Numidians),
    Just to expand on this, that script will trigger whenever you are not allied to the Numidians. It represents the removal of a moderating force directing the various tribes elsewhere to conduct their raiding.

    This also applies if they are dead; if you destroy the Numidians that script is on forever. By eradicating the Maessylians, it becomes every rider for himself, grabbing what they can from your frontier regions.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Any hints for Carthage?

    Carthage is one of the best factions to play it slowly with careful expansion, if you like that kind of campaign.

    From the start it has a very stable economy letting you have strong garrisons in both Iberia and Sicily, decent garrisons in other provinces plus keeping their starting fleet. All of this and you could still gain 6k a turn (may vary with you campaign difficulty) while having Atig, Lilibeo and Hadrumentum at low taxes.

    My suggestions are:
    - Use the "Carthaginian Army Composition" guide by Trarco to build your armies historically. Its an excellent work done by Trarco and for me is a must for any Carthaginian campaign.
    - Until you reach the first reform that unlocks new government buildings don't build Settler Colonies in regions you conquer, unless you know what type of recruitment you can have after the reforms. The colony points you can gain over the full length of the campaign can reach, at best, 250-270 depending of fast you can upgrade Atig, Lilibeo and Hadrumentum to council administration, so they are limited. Build Trade colonies and recruit those beautiful and very useful Ligurian, Iberian and Gallic mercenaries.
    - Until you reach the first reform, don't build Supervised Colony gov in your newly conquered regions and instead opt to install an allied government. Supervised colony is limited in terms of infrastructure and recruitment and to upgrade it you have to build Settlers colonies which will be difficult because you will have few colony points in the first 2 to 3 decades. Allied Gov's permits some basic recruitment for garrisons (which can be supplemented with a Trade colony) and gives you more buildings to build, specially roads that are fundamental in some regions (ex.: africa).
    - Destroy your supervised colonies gov in korsin and "" and install an allied gov for the reasons above.
    - Don't school your young FM in Carthage or they will be elected into Rab Sheni (deputy general) in their second turn after coming of age, even when in peace.
    - First time you go to war you will be asked to chose a "War leader" via script. If you say yes your selected FM will be the main general of your army, and elections for Rab Sheni will be available at Carthage. Even if you FM have the trait "Eligble for Rab Mahni" they will not be elected because you have a War Leader. For what I experienced you can have a War leader for each faction you are at war, excluding rebels. If you don't chose a War Leader via script, Election for Rab Mahni can be held at Carthage but are limited for only a few candidates.
    - Let the Numidians grow before absorbing them for it creates a nice challenge for you. If not, let them at least conquer the interior regions of africa and let them stay there (preferably then allied with you) unless you want to fight those scripted raids.

    In my current campaign I'm taking it slowly and semi following the historical turns of events (fortunately this time Carthage won the first punic war in Sicily may even call it First Latin War ) and its been a lot of fun. I also like to intervene in external state of affairs which my strong economy and fleet lets me. For example, Macedon was getting stomped by Koinon Hellenon but with my help they are recovering and took Athens recently.

    Hope I could help and that you enjoy your campaign.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Any hints for Carthage?

    Thank you all very much!

  8. #8

    Default Re: Any hints for Carthage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiuga View Post
    Carthage is one of the best factions to play it slowly with careful expansion, if you like that kind of campaign.

    From the start it has a very stable economy letting you have strong garrisons in both Iberia and Sicily, decent garrisons in other provinces plus keeping their starting fleet. All of this and you could still gain 6k a turn (may vary with you campaign difficulty) while having Atig, Lilibeo and Hadrumentum at low taxes.

    My suggestions are:
    - Use the "Carthaginian Army Composition" guide by Trarco to build your armies historically. Its an excellent work done by Trarco and for me is a must for any Carthaginian campaign.
    - Until you reach the first reform that unlocks new government buildings don't build Settler Colonies in regions you conquer, unless you know what type of recruitment you can have after the reforms. The colony points you can gain over the full length of the campaign can reach, at best, 250-270 depending of fast you can upgrade Atig, Lilibeo and Hadrumentum to council administration, so they are limited. Build Trade colonies and recruit those beautiful and very useful Ligurian, Iberian and Gallic mercenaries.
    - Until you reach the first reform, don't build Supervised Colony gov in your newly conquered regions and instead opt to install an allied government. Supervised colony is limited in terms of infrastructure and recruitment and to upgrade it you have to build Settlers colonies which will be difficult because you will have few colony points in the first 2 to 3 decades. Allied Gov's permits some basic recruitment for garrisons (which can be supplemented with a Trade colony) and gives you more buildings to build, specially roads that are fundamental in some regions (ex.: africa).
    - Destroy your supervised colonies gov in korsin and "" and install an allied gov for the reasons above.
    - Don't school your young FM in Carthage or they will be elected into Rab Sheni (deputy general) in their second turn after coming of age, even when in peace.
    - First time you go to war you will be asked to chose a "War leader" via script. If you say yes your selected FM will be the main general of your army, and elections for Rab Sheni will be available at Carthage. Even if you FM have the trait "Eligble for Rab Mahni" they will not be elected because you have a War Leader. For what I experienced you can have a War leader for each faction you are at war, excluding rebels. If you don't chose a War Leader via script, Election for Rab Mahni can be held at Carthage but are limited for only a few candidates.
    - Let the Numidians grow before absorbing them for it creates a nice challenge for you. If not, let them at least conquer the interior regions of africa and let them stay there (preferably then allied with you) unless you want to fight those scripted raids.

    In my current campaign I'm taking it slowly and semi following the historical turns of events (fortunately this time Carthage won the first punic war in Sicily may even call it First Latin War ) and its been a lot of fun. I also like to intervene in external state of affairs which my strong economy and fleet lets me. For example, Macedon was getting stomped by Koinon Hellenon but with my help they are recovering and took Athens recently.

    Hope I could help and that you enjoy your campaign.
    Great tips thanks!

  9. #9
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Any hints for Carthage?

    There is only one thing that is not accurate anymore regarding Raiuga tips. The age requirements for second and main general has been increased, so you can now place your young Family members in Carthage at will since they will not be elected generals for some years.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Any hints for Carthage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    There is only one thing that is not accurate anymore regarding Raiuga tips. The age requirements for second and main general has been increased, so you can now place your young Family members in Carthage at will since they will not be elected generals for some years.
    Thats great!

  11. #11

    Default Re: Any hints for Carthage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    There is only one thing that is not accurate anymore regarding Raiuga tips. The age requirements for second and main general has been increased, so you can now place your young Family members in Carthage at will since they will not be elected generals for some years.
    What are the age requirements?

  12. #12

    Default Re: Any hints for Carthage?

    I strongly encourage on taking Sicily early on. Syracuse and... the other city (been a while since I played) will consistently spawn rebel armies that will challenge your foothold in the isles. I prefer to be at war with the Romans (and start building the requirements for the first reform) than have to worry about a full stack besieging one of my vital cities every dozen turns.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Any hints for Carthage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    What are the age requirements?
    I think for Rab Sheni it's 26 years old

  14. #14

    Default Re: Any hints for Carthage?

    I'd go for Sicily fast to capture its cities whilst Romans are still occupied with Tarentum, Rhegion or in the northern Italy.
    Furthermore, I believe that Rome must be destroyed.




  15. #15

    Default Re: Any hints for Carthage?

    I'm at turn 60 (Hard/Hard), not at war. Been consistently developing all my cities and characters and money is no problem. So far I have conquered Syracuse, Messena and Mastia (New Qarthadasht) and am going for the next rebel settlement in Iberia. War with the Romans over Messena early on with no military confrontation and sued for peace. I prefer to expand in Iberia conquering rebel cities and allow the main factions some time to build themselves up however, seems like the other factions don't seem to be expanding much.. Still lots rebel settlements throughout Gaul and Asia Minor though. Romans have taken the three nearest northern provinces in Northern Italy.. Rhegion still in rebel hands. I have no intention of expanding into Rome so soon..
    Last edited by qwertykov; May 06, 2020 at 12:21 AM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Any hints for Carthage?

    For early conquest, depends on how rushy yo uwant to be, specially with the Romans and Numidians. Even for more controlled expansion I would suggest to at least take the future Carthago Nova to start developpin it as it will be an improtant center in the future, the punic settlements in the western coast of africa (they start small so they will take time to develop and are semi-core and amkes sense RP wise) and Syracuse (its rebels will be a pain if not, and its qutie a big and rich city. Will take a while to be easily controllable. You really need a good overnor that develops philliehellenos there for qutie a while). Further expansion in iberia, specially along the coast could be done slowly if felt neccesary. I would defintiely wait for inland though.

    The tactic of going for southern italy is more agressive and probably useful game wise but I prefer not to force the war with rome until a more historical date, I dod elay taking Messana due to this until when I feel is right/Im ready. Attitude vs Numidians can also vary. Taking their northern settlemets at least its advisable because those camps can be converted and become qutie rich and it would be a good zone of recruitment and also allow to control the north african coast and connect with good roads along your vast territory for smaller movements when your fleets are busy. Totally erasing them by controlling also inland africa, or keeping them around to avoid them bacoming a horde and random tribal raids its a choice. Both have pros and cons.

    I feel like Carthage is best suited for slow expansion though. Specially early on, given you already start quite big and that you need colony points to expand your governments, and only 1 city gives those at start and up to 3 can have it at most long term. Maybe with their rework it changes a bit but still it doesnt feel like a faction for rushing anyway, given there is not many settlemetns with your culture so tis best to go slow to consolidate your holdin and dont have many fronts open at once.
    Last edited by Jervaj; May 06, 2020 at 05:36 AM.

    We will either find a way, or make one.


  17. #17

    Default Re: Any hints for Carthage?

    If you want to trigger the Carthaginian reforms without having to luck out on pro-Barcid family members, do everything in your power to make your starting general in Sicily (his name is Hanno or Hasdrubal) the faction leader and Rab Mahnet. He is Barcid and S/C/V. Since the reforms occur at the earliest on turn 140, where Hanno/Hasdrubal would be 73 years old, you might have to do a little save-scumming to ensure he doesn't kick the bucket prematurely. It's a little hacky, but it guarantees the first reform, which unlocks some pretty sweet units including Late Libyans, Late Libyan Swordsmen, and Numidian Swordsmen, as well as upgrading the Numidian Noble Cavalry's armor.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Any hints for Carthage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jervaj View Post

    I feel like Carthage is best suited for slow expansion though. Specially early on, given you already start quite big and that you need colony points to expand your governments, and only 1 city gives those at start and up to 3 can have it at most long term. Maybe with their rework it changes a bit but still it doesnt feel like a faction for rushing anyway, given there is not many settlemetns with your culture so tis best to go slow to consolidate your holdin and dont have many fronts open at once.
    colony points.. how do they work actually? is there any way i can see how many points i've got to upgrade my colonies? and what are the pros and cons...

  19. #19

    Default Re: Any hints for Carthage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoebopp View Post
    If you want to trigger the Carthaginian reforms without having to luck out on pro-Barcid family members, do everything in your power to make your starting general in Sicily (his name is Hanno or Hasdrubal) the faction leader and Rab Mahnet. He is Barcid and S/C/V. Since the reforms occur at the earliest on turn 140, where Hanno/Hasdrubal would be 73 years old, you might have to do a little save-scumming to ensure he doesn't kick the bucket prematurely. It's a little hacky, but it guarantees the first reform, which unlocks some pretty sweet units including Late Libyans, Late Libyan Swordsmen, and Numidian Swordsmen, as well as upgrading the Numidian Noble Cavalry's armor.
    Awesome tip! That would be Hanno.. and yes i might have to do some save-scumming den..

  20. #20

    Default Re: Any hints for Carthage?

    Quote Originally Posted by qwertykov View Post
    colony points.. how do they work actually? is there any way i can see how many points i've got to upgrade my colonies? and what are the pros and cons...
    Colony points, for all factions, are stored within the system via script and there's no way the player can see accurately. Luckily, whenever you put a colony in the building queue, it is automatically deducted from the pool, and when you cancel it (before starting to build it proper, I assume), it returns the point. So you can use that to estimate with some accuracy how many colony points you can have.

    There are no cons to establishing Carthage colonies. All colonies that use the pool system are 100% beneficial and, arguably, vital for the factions. Carthage needs settler colonies in the settlement in order to establish higher level factional governments (until reform). The only thing that really holds their colonies back is that fact that, at game start, they only come from Carthage proper, and you need to invest in your other three core cities until their colonies get to level 3 in order for them to start contributing to the pool. Furthermore, you will get at most +4 points per 4 years when it is all done, so it is not a very large colony pool (compared to say Greeks). You better chose carefully where you establish.

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