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Thread: NEW DBM development:Testing phase of DBM 2.0

  1. #81

    Default Re: NEW DBM development: info & previews (prior to release)

    Every possible satraps that can appear as general on map will be, some rebels and some in real factions when fitting. Families trees and starting characters are obviously being reworked for the start date. That's among the easy things to do, so I invest more time into the complicated things even if a few factions trees are already roughfly re-done. While seleucos should start with only babylon if we follow history to the letter, he will likely have a couple more regions for the convenience of historic scripts featuring some Diadochi wars, a other complicated subject. Famous Childrens will be in family trees when possible, and even earlier in the case of Ptolemee II that is a one year old at start date and already heir, when he was really born later. In game he is around the same age that his supposetly older half brother Ptolemee Keraunos. Seleucos II was already born I think so he is here too. Once again, adapting a little history to the game. In Alexander's son case, the poor bastard never really stood a chance in history, so I don't think he will be a real kid with a chance to grow up and be on map, more likely the subject of some missions with his death happening one way or the other, like his grand ma heh? Those are still on early stages, not easy to think through and likely to change depending on ideas that come when I will spend more time on it.

    And yes, babylon partition is the model for eastern distributions, with adaptation when convenient for the gameplay or scripting.

    Parthes are still in the Dahae for now, and we will see how to best handle their 'double' role for the first version soon.

  2. #82

    Default Re: NEW DBM development: info & previews (prior to release)

    Alright.

    So the Macedonian Empire will not be featured then?


    Also, I did a small edit for your Britain province, I put the area of Scotland into grey and lowered the upper province into northern England;

    https://i.imgur.com/jplsEY0.png

    (i also thickened the brown steppe province a bit)

  3. #83

    Default Re: NEW DBM development: info & previews (prior to release)



    All in all the Macedonian empire won't be, allowing the faction for increased lands would hamper the nearby "enemies" of Greek League, Thracia and Pontus... After Alexander, afterall, the kingdom "went back" to its core provinces, and the other Diadochi settled in the other areas...

    Whereas, for the "Hyrcanians" (current name), will occupy lands north-east of the last hegemonial area of Seleucids... then, mhm, through script they could arise as in history and claim their independence from the empire with forced war/spawns, the same applies to the East-satrapal lands... an idea that I throw for now...


  4. #84

    Default Re: NEW DBM development: info & previews (prior to release)

    The macedonian empire if it ever existed after Alexander died with Perdiccas, so around the start date. Attempts to restore it never stood a chance, just like Alexander's kid, with the merry band of his former generals that wanted supremacy on the lands they took. With time we will however manage to create complex relationships betwwen the diadochi factions, I had to freeze this part to take care of unexpected new things but that's the beauty of improving with further versions.

    For the parthes/hycarnyans, aside from the ai, we don't need spawning for invasions, switching ownership of regions, severals in a row even, is finally so easy once you figured how the faction_emerge command work. We can just give Parthia when the time is right, script the war stance and factions standing, scheduled some failsafe to check the health of 'timurids' at this game stage, and give more if needed. Then let the ai fight it out, adjust/create new ai labels if need be at some point. (You know I won't give up on my custom ai, mha ha... Unless your RBAI is really that good but somehow, I have a doubt, not enough labels, and from a quick glance not the parameters I would have chosen)
    Well this need more refinement but my philosophy is to limit spawns, except for real names and limited situations, never doomstacks spawns because it can be too easy to fell in that trap.

  5. #85

    Default Re: NEW DBM development: info & previews (prior to release)

    Quote Originally Posted by selv View Post
    The macedonian empire if it ever existed after Alexander died with Perdiccas, so around the start date.
    Well, historiography disagrees, the Macedonian Empire was fully a thing until 309 when Alexander IV was assassinated, before that, all the diadochi were merely acting as satraps of the king, governors of territory, not rulers.



    Quote Originally Posted by selv View Post
    attempts to restore it never stood a chance, just like Alexander's kid, with the merry band of his former generals that wanted supremacy on the lands they took. With time we will however manage to create complex relationships betwwen the diadochi factions, I had to freeze this part to take care of unexpected new things but that's the beauty of improving with further versions.
    It was unlikely to restore it yes, but it did exist, and if Alexander IV was not assassinated, the Empire would continue to exist at least nominally for some time.


    Quote Originally Posted by selv View Post
    For the parthes/hycarnyans, aside from the ai, we don't need spawning for invasions, switching ownership of regions, severals in a row even, is finally so easy once you figured how the faction_emerge command work. We can just give Parthia when the time is right, script the war stance and factions standing, scheduled some failsafe to check the health of 'timurids' at this game stage, and give more if needed. Then let the ai fight it out, adjust/create new ai labels if need be at some point. (You know I won't give up on my custom ai, mha ha... Unless your RBAI is really that good but somehow, I have a doubt, not enough labels, and from a quick glance not the parameters I would have chosen)
    Well this need more refinement but my philosophy is to limit spawns, except for real names and limited situations, never doomstacks spawns because it can be too easy to fell in that trap.
    Alright, as you say.

    I merely asked because the issue is that there is nearly 300 turns in your game until Parthia historically came on stage, so I was wondering how this would be done.


    As for the historical work, could you give me the list of units you still do not have a historical name for?

    I could try and fill that work for some hours as tomorrow is Sunday.
    Last edited by Mamlaz; December 09, 2017 at 05:37 PM.

  6. #86

    Default Re: NEW DBM development: info & previews (prior to release)

    Well, remember it's always the good old MII engine, miracles cannot be done (the basics of AI are too old given the game), but the provided labels can help.. Then, ok, for this scripted revolt of the satrapal hyrcanians, we'll see..

    whereas for the last years of the empire, it was not a true "homogeneous entity" after Alexander... Makedonia will stay across its heartlands, but area for expansion is good for them...

    Whereas, hehe Mamlaz, I take the occasion right now. Here the current version of the export_units: translate only the title name of the units with historical ones (look at all the new units at bottom, they all have historical names), and just do the same for the rest (take as reference the units where you see a point with description of attributes, many other units have been deleted due to hardcoded, no need to translate them)...

    https://mega.nz/#!Y10yEZpa!wxCntJTWL...eKqAfYEp37U83g


  7. #87

    Default Re: NEW DBM development: info & previews (prior to release)

    can the old DBM just be stabilized? that and reworking the settlements and the mod would be great!

  8. #88

    Default Re: NEW DBM development: info & previews (prior to release)

    Sure, Killiat. It could. Anybody is free to do it, the old DBM won't disappear. However we have differents takes on the new DBM. Remember that it's all about taste.
    DBM has always been there for someone to retake it or do something different with it and this 'policy' won't change with us.

    Edit, I don't know what was the stability problem with the old version but the new seem very stable, though we had no time to play a real playthrough. Beta testers will be welcome soon now, we will let you know.
    Last edited by selv; December 19, 2017 at 12:13 PM.

  9. #89

    Default Re: NEW DBM development: info & previews (prior to release)

    Yes, hopefully soon we'll open a new thread for beta-testers, as we're gonna release a beta vesion before the official new one, DBM 2.0.

    Definitively, we need some beta testers to have a couple of campaign tests and gameplay so as to check scripts, the new balance of features and other reworked gameplay aspects.

    Whereas, about battle settlements, yes we want just like you that they look better... For sure, the empty spaces are gonna be filled, then, if I like experience some complications, maybe I will ask some advice to the EBII staff (they managed to improve the original DBM settlements), but let's see what I'll come up with, first...


  10. #90

    Default Re: NEW DBM development: info & previews (prior to release)

    I am totally willing to devote myself to this mod and help and support it with whatever i can.
    I dont know much about modding but i am willing to learn to help out. I have great knowledge of Ancient history, so if any help with descriptions, writing biographies, helping out with starting family trees, buildings, units etc etc.

    Just tell me what to and i shall obey thee great Augustus Caesar!

  11. #91

    Default Re: NEW DBM development: info & previews (prior to release)

    haha, thanks a lot!

    Yes, apart you, we're gonna need a few other profiles for the beta gameplay of the campaign... that's for sure...

    About descriptions, mhm, yes extra help about the historical names of units is appreciated too, as well as characters' biograpies... when the beta release is out, you or others can add historical descriptions for the rosters and figures (some have them already, the rest not)... it's save-game compatible too, so no worry for editings on the go.

    Anh, hehe, I do not want to mistake, but the avatar is Marc Anthony... mhm, you are enemy of Rome!!


  12. #92

    Default Re: NEW DBM development: info & previews (prior to release)

    The actor playing Marc Anthony was funny in the show, he really did a great job, I listen his lines sometimes when modding.

    Let's see, it seem that we would gain many time by having the little lists of starting characters for each faction, my aristocratic friend Rafmc gave a clear list of factions in a post, Hohenstaufen. If you want to write biographies, well in my mind it's only a wasted non-hidden trait slot, given that they are limited but rafmc decide these things so.

    What is it, Marc Anthony? Ah, yes, the people, they love, the little touches...

  13. #93

    Default Re: NEW DBM development: info & previews (prior to release)

    No apart jokes, bios are by far a nice addition...

    when we publish the open-beta, as said, you and/or others can start adding some bio's traits (without effects, just the bios... or with the effects, as you like)...
    Last edited by rafmc1989; December 20, 2017 at 04:22 PM.


  14. #94

    Default Re: NEW DBM development: info & previews (prior to release)

    I was thinking about adding biographies for the starting Characters for getting more immersion in the mod, and for roleplaying purposes. I donīt think they should add some "traits" in that way. Just info for the people thatīs playing.
    Bios increase the playability in my mind and i love mods that has bios on characters, even the diplomats, spies, assassins and so on. But as you said rafmc decide what shall be in the mod and not.

    But it should also be history/descriptions on the buildings, units. Maybe even have some history on the province itself like EBII has. Itīs the little things that make the mods gain more weight, in my eyes at least.
    If Rafmc giveīs permission, maybe i could see the factions list? So i know what i should start working on.

    And i must quote Marc Anthony " I'am not rising from this bed...until i ed someone"

  15. #95

    Default Re: NEW DBM development: info & previews (prior to release)

    I knew you were gonna say that, Rafmc. Well that's easy to add and only for starting characters or special unique names so it should be ok but writing the actual biographie doesn't inspire me. (not to mention the research) Others will have to write the texts if they want some biographies. If I can suggest to Hohenstaufen or whoever want to write them, try to limit the informations to what the characters did prior their apparition in game, as I think that informations on their entire life and that won't necessary happen to them during the game is more anti-immersive than anything. Just my thought on the subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hohenstaufen234 View Post
    I was thinking about adding biographies for the starting Characters for getting more immersion in the mod, and for roleplaying purposes. I donīt think they should add some "traits" in that way. Just info for the people thatīs playing.
    Bios increase the playability in my mind and i love mods that has bios on characters, even the diplomats, spies, assassins and so on. But as you said rafmc decide what shall be in the mod and not.

    But it should also be history/descriptions on the buildings, units. Maybe even have some history on the province itself like EBII has. Itīs the little things that make the mods gain more weight, in my eyes at least.
    If Rafmc giveīs permission, maybe i could see the factions list? So i know what i should start working on.

    And i must quote Marc Anthony " I'am not rising from this bed...until i ed someone"
    There is only traits to display informations on a particular character, at least easily. I don't know EB2 and don't want to mimic them, however I think they use a building per region to display provinces informations, something we won't do. (must take around 30 building trees, so either we will find a other way or won't have provinces biographies, but it's not a priority now)

    Below is the post with the factions list, we need lists of starting characters for each, except the emergent ones, when the information is available. A few are done but still lack secondary characters or are made up short of quickly available informations.

    We would need those as soon as possible but we will have time to rework fastly re-done family trees when we are ready to launch the open beta, in case...

    Quote Originally Posted by rafmc1989 View Post
    So, full list as follows:

    1) Aedui
    2) Averni
    3) Belgae
    4) Celtiberi
    5) Sweboz
    6) Illyria
    7) Noricum
    8) Boii
    9) Dacians
    10) Scythians
    11) Sarmatians
    12) Saka
    13) Nabatea
    14) Rome (imperialists later)
    15) Greek league
    16) Macedon
    17) Thrace
    18) Pontus
    19) Armenia
    20) Seleucids
    21) Egypt
    22) Greek Independent Poleis
    23) Numidia
    24) Carthage
    25) Garamantes (off map at first, later they are invaders in Africa regions, non playable)
    26) Eastern Satrapes (vassal-kingdom of Seleucids)
    27) Parthians (ah, selv, for historic reasons, at this timeframe they are still very friendly with seleucids, don't forget)
    28) Roman Rivalis (emergent faction linked to political system and Civil War: the Republican side)
    29) SPQR (yes, selv, as said, they need to stay in Rome, the new label will do the rest, dont worry)
    30) Independents(rebels)

    31)... off faction for oracles and scripting

  16. #96

    Default Re: NEW DBM development: info & previews (prior to release)

    Yeah but sure, don't get me wrong... I won't stop anyone from adding bios for the starting characters (effects or not are the same), I like them too... even during the open beta can be done, without pressure... Then, when I'm freed from more urgent tasks, I can assist too with bios.. (in case, I even think to add hero abilities to characters, why not)

    Whereas, about province info buildings... yes we chose to avoid them... In gameplay aspects, they are a "waste of resources" as they take many building trees and they do not add anything to the game, apart texts... Instead we used those trees for other building lines with bonuses and/or other characteristics (you can see some of them in the ModDB pics, but there are others as well not shown)...

    Then, through time, I could fill the few slots left with special buildings (like one per important settlement, as in Rome, Alesia, etc. with special bonuses).. but province info won't appear, we already decided on that...


    If I can, I throw a list of starting characters per faction asap, while the list of factions is the one above... (no slot left)


  17. #97

    Default Re: NEW DBM development: info & previews (prior to release)

    Quote Originally Posted by rafmc1989 View Post
    Then, through time, I could fill the few slots left with special buildings (like one per important settlement, as in Rome, Alesia, etc. with special bonuses).. but province info won't appear, we already decided on that...
    That make me think, don't be in a hurry to fill the few free building trees left, I might need one or two for others scripting purposes. Just one or two to leave free to failsafe some futher experiments on some later features I didn't get the time think through yet...

  18. #98

    Default Re: NEW DBM development: info & previews (prior to release)

    yep, that's why I left those few slots free for now... then, we'll see with the dynamics of the civil war too, if there is need of some other trees .....


  19. #99

    Default Re: NEW DBM development: info & previews (prior to release)

    Heavy list haha

    I will start collecting and assemble all the information i have, i will open the sibyllian books so to say haha. Now but seriously. Iīll think i will start with those factions that i already have a lot of bio/infos on.
    Yes and as you said, the bio/descriptions should only comprehend what they did and have done during the timeline for the mod. Everything else is outside the frame so to speak.

    Ok, so the province desc is out then, or something we can talk about further away. Like you said itīs not a priority right now. But yeah, letīs forget them completley because in a way it is a "waste of resources" that could be put in to making other things shine instead.
    Haha i didnīt first that you where with the team selv, forgive me I tought you where trying to help just like me. I have been awake for too long, i blame it on that, sorry

    So im thinking off a short, concist but still interesting bio for the starting FM for the player to read.

    Im starting with Western Mediterranean/Europe factions and their starting FM as i have a lot of information on that side saved on the computer, and books, and not to forget the head haha.
    I have much for the eastern side too, so not to worry but itīs a lot easier to start with the West as that is where the most info is readily available.

    And no rafmc1989, im not an enemy off Rome. The Witch Cleopatra left me for another power struggle :/ so i reconciled with Rome and came back to offer my services as the True Roman i am

    Where are you guys from btw?

  20. #100

    Default Re: NEW DBM development: info & previews (prior to release)

    If I can, I throw a list of starting characters per faction asap, while the list of factions is the one above... (no slot left)



    That would be very good! But dont stress it, because i have a lot of information on characters on the computer and in my book collection. So that you know that, there is now stress with that. Take it chill

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