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Thread: How to safely become Kingetos?

  1. #1

    Default How to safely become Kingetos?

    I have been playing as the Boii and am liking the Celtic Traits system, but I have a question. How do you safely become a Kingetos?

    I think sending your young FM’s to raid and lead armies can be dangerous. Many of the new young FMs start with low loyalty, sending them by themselves to raid could cause them to rebel or get bought by enemy diplomats. If you are a small faction and you have many new FMs then then you won’t have enough spies to accompany them.

    If you keep your youngsters with the FL to gain loyalty in the capital, then they are prone to get the weak Kingetos trait because they aren’t being active and just sitting still.

    What is a better strategy for getting your FMs to Kingetos that minimizes the change of them rebelling, without using spies.

  2. #2

    Default Re: How to safely become Kingetos?

    Get him in a stack as an auxiliary general(3 years at least), devastating tiles, commanding or generally just not ending your turn in a settlement(especially during winter)/being active as a character. Some characters are languorous, which predisposes you to Weak Kingetos. Likewise, Vigorous characters are predisposed to success.

    2. You must be doing something wrong. Every single time I win a battle during the training level(assuming I'm commanding), I get the Kingetos success level. My guess is you didn't trigger the training level, and didn't read the Game mechanics info for the trait(the description says everything, basically). You need to exhaust most of your movement points, or end your turn InEnemyLands, and then the training level will kick in. You only have till age 30 till you auto-fail this trait. Not to mention, you can only go from Kingetos to Epas if you're under 30.

    My guess is that you haven't gotten the training level when you didn't trigger the training level before fighting the battle. In the future I'll upload a trigger fix allowing Youths who win a battle pre-training to succeed the training before it even begins.
    Me answering a similar question on TheOrg. The safest, but arguably one of the longest, ways to become a Kingetos is to serve as an AuxiliaryGeneral in an army for ~3 years(careful not to reset the timer, capturing cities and leaving the stack as a sub-commander will reset the TimeWithArmy condition back to 0).

    Don't worry so much about rebellion(seriously, rebellions are very rare)...I'm doing a long Boii campaign right now, and have lost exactly 1 FM to rebellion during my 230 T playthrough, and that's when I've barely used the spy-in-army trick. The easiest way to succeed your training is to fight small Aphistamenoi stacks with a character with the Training level of the trait(I leave some of the smaller ones on my map alone in order to train future young FMs). As long as the low loyalty FM is all alone while raiding, there's not much risk involved IMO--since if they do rebel, you'll only lose one FM, who can then be easily killed in battle without a supporting army. Raiding alone in an enemy province is a very low-maintenance way of succeeding as a Kingetos, but you do run the risk of rebellion--but that's a risk you run for every FM besides the FL who ends his turn outside a settlement. With respect to warrior training, these are real and intentional risks, and generally speaking you're going to have to take them if you want your characters to be proper Kingetoi(and not Weak Kingetoi)--warrior training isn't about safety, it's about risk and danger!

    If you're worried about rebellion and the "safety" of your FMs, then you should be prepared to have a generation of Weak Kingetoi IMO. If you choose to let these FMs idle, be prepared to have Weak Kingetoi.

    You can also still fail your training even if you do everything "right", due to randomness, your base-stats and etc. etc. The shortest and most reliable way to succeed the training by far is actually commanding a battle. In the mid-game period, I use Aphistamenoi as training dummies for my Iouantus'. After defeating them and becoming Kingetoi, I then move them onto druidic training, or a governor position or etc. etc. etc. Doing so involves ending your turn outside a settlement, so the risk of rebellion is still there.

    Another tidbit about the CelticDruid trait:
    3. You can't; it's random and stat based(best I can do). Low Intelligence and Low Charisma characters are likely to fail; High Int and High Cha characters are likely to succeed. Also, only certain characters can become Ardos Druidae(the really smart and charismatic ones).
    Last edited by Genghis Skahn; October 30, 2017 at 11:52 AM.

  3. #3
    postm00v's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: How to safely become Kingetos?

    I read the romans use the AuxiliaryGeneral trait as well. Could you explain how this trait works exactly?

  4. #4

    Default Re: How to safely become Kingetos?

    Every faction uses it--some factions make use of it more than others.

    It works as you'd think it would: it's a hidden trait which increases in levels the longer you act as a sub-commander/auxiliary general in a stack(non-commanding FM). It does not affect commanding FMs, and by getting high enough in the AuxGen trait, you get several battle-related traits a non-commanding FM normally wouldn't get(eg. go from Green to Blooded CommandExperience). Previously, without use of the TimeWithArmy condition, sub-commanders in a stack got no command experience, and etc. besides the chevrons they get from killing enemies in battles. Now, with the use of the AuxGen trait, they too can benefit from military service in the form of traits(the commander still benefits the most, but now your sub-commanders actually get some traits from their military service as well).

    Generally, it takes at least 3 years of AuxGen service before you see any benefits resulting from the hidden trait.
    Last edited by Genghis Skahn; October 30, 2017 at 01:08 PM.

  5. #5
    postm00v's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: How to safely become Kingetos?

    That's simply amazing. It always bugged me that sub-commanders never gained any experience.

  6. #6
    VektorT's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: How to safely become Kingetos?

    Oh, wow, it IS amazing! Finally it have some sense!

  7. #7

    Default Re: How to safely become Kingetos?

    Thanks for the info.

  8. #8

    Default Re: How to safely become Kingetos?

    That sounds like an great system, but am I reading this correctly that you have to stay a sub-commander for 3 consecutive years before any payoff?

  9. #9

    Default Re: How to safely become Kingetos?

    3 years total-- not consecutive.

  10. #10
    Biarchus
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    Default Re: How to safely become Kingetos?

    That's better, I read it the first time as consecutive.

  11. #11

    Default Re: How to safely become Kingetos?

    That AuxGen trait sounds fantastic, I´ll be adding an additional FM to my stacks from now on, but I would ask if there is a limitation to the number of FMs that benefit from this?

    Also, Getai specific, I have problems with my FM´s "barely completing training" when they hit 18. Despite becoming grizzled generals they seem never to promote to "Proven Tarabostes" and beyond, which sucks because there are major penalties to being stuck in noob rank. It looks like Celtic faction use a similar system to promote their boys into men, any tips?

  12. #12

    Default Re: How to safely become Kingetos?

    You must be doing something wrong, or are just plain unlucky--the Kingetos and Tarabostes traits work alike. I tested these traits before the release and everything was working A-OK. There are failure triggers for not using your general's BG in a battle, even if you win it. Having them as AuxiliaryGenerals also leads to success. Sometimes failure is random and stat-based.

    Once you become "Barely Completed Training" you can't advance any further, btw. You're stuck there for good. You have to have your FMs out and about if you want them to become successful. You should be as militarily active as possible(and not spending time in settlements) during your training period if you want the proven level. I'm almost 100% sure the system is working as intended with respect to that. I had no shortage of proven Tarabostai in my test runs.

  13. #13

    Default Re: How to safely become Kingetos?

    Quote Originally Posted by Genghis Skahn View Post
    You must be doing something wrong, or are just plain unlucky--the Kingetos and Tarabostes traits work alike.
    I think I´m doing something wrong, and by the looks of it, I´m leaving every kid in the capital hoping the local school will make something of them all. From what I understand, I have to be more selective about what I do with the children and filter out the nerdy smart kids for school and the rough and tough boys out for fieldwork. Should I involve the future generals in battles or, is it ok if they roam around in a pure child FM stack? not that many rebels running around I´m afraid

    Quote Originally Posted by Genghis Skahn View Post
    Once you become "Barely Completed Training" you can't advance any further, btw. You're stuck there for good.
    I can´t remember the malus for being a noob warrior, but I think there was a command, influence and fertility hit. Would this mean that I could theoretically train up wonder governors with low influence and no offspring? They would be always in school, so that "barely completed training" is pretty much autoachieve. I´m thinking thats not a good thing. I think governors can take a hit to command but isn´t influence essential for more stable cities and cultural conversion?

    Actually is there a 2.3 guide on Character management anywhere, an official one would be nice!

    And BTW, I am really enjoying these new traits. My FL is Pilata and basically a wargod. Just an awesome character, earned the hard way!
    Last edited by Nightsh4de; October 31, 2017 at 01:37 PM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: How to safely become Kingetos?

    I think I´m doing something wrong, and by the looks of it, I´m leaving every kid in the capital hoping the local school will make something of them all.
    Well no wonder you're getting weak Tarabostai. You can't be letting them idle like that and expect them to be proper warriors--you're flat out doing it wrong. Disregard the traditional TW schooling methods for the warrior training; they need to be InEnemyLands, raiding, auxiliary generals or commanding armies. Also getting them to spend winter outdoors gives a small chance for success; Vigorous characters are also predisposed to automatic success.

    You should flat out avoid ending your turn in a settlement during the warrior training period. You can resume the traditional EB schooling after you finish their training. The priest training is settlement based, but warrior training is field based. You need to have them active and not idling if you hope to succeed.

    The traits aren't really a problem so long as you read the trait description which clearly states(AFAIK) that he should participate in battle and not end his turn inside a settlement if he wishes to succeed the warrior training. It's VERY easy to succeed this training, but if you mismanage your FMs it will seem unreasonable--which is actually intentional. The fact that you're reporting this confirms the design's intent: if you idle and let your young FMs sit around on their asses instead of fighting or being mobile, then you'll end up with tons of weak Tarabostai.

  15. #15
    postm00v's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: How to safely become Kingetos?

    Is this the case for every faction? I tend to leave my young romans in Rome until they're at least Cultured.

  16. #16

    Default Re: How to safely become Kingetos?

    No. This is for Warrior training system characters only, such as: Lugians, Getai, Areuakoi and Celtic factions.

  17. #17

    Default Re: How to safely become Kingetos?

    Quote Originally Posted by Genghis Skahn View Post
    Well no wonder you're getting weak Tarabostai. You can't be letting them idle like that and expect them to be proper warriors--you're flat out doing it wrong. Disregard the traditional TW schooling methods for the warrior training
    Glad I found this thread then, I was stuck in the traditional model doh! I will take a different approach with the kids from now on. Just to be sure though, should ALL kids be out playing around until they get through training or will the nerdy ones (Sharp, Uncharismatic, langurous) benefit more from staying in settlements to attend school from the moment they come of age?

  18. #18

    Default Re: How to safely become Kingetos?

    Also, If i place a bunch of kids in a stack under a legendary Tarabostes, does this boost the probability of them aquiring more and better traits for warfare or is it the same?

  19. #19

    Default Re: How to safely become Kingetos?

    No, it's best for them all to be out and about once the training kicks in. The nerdy types are just more likely to fail, but they can make good priests. In fact, if you fail the training, you have a slight boost to becoming a priest, and vice versa for if you fail the Telete WRT warrior training.

    No, we can't be that specific with the TimeWithArmy condition--any commander will do and is the same as any other WRT the AuxGen trait.

  20. #20

    Default Re: How to safely become Kingetos?

    Ok just to be double sure: the description says they start military training at age 20, does this mean that we can keep them in cities getting some schooling until they are around 19, which would be when we send them out to raid or run around in a stack (or alone even?) until they are done with that, and then its back to school until age 24 right?

    Am concerned that a kid doing well in his test, goes back to school, triggers the priest test and since he has lower success chance, will likely fail, getting -2 troop morale and -2 influence, which is kind of a big deal.

    I´m guessing sending the warrior path FMs to another settlement with perhaps a temple of Ares and a school, would be best to complete their training, or am I mistaken?

    We really need a guide, this is intricate stuff!

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