City Management Guide for EB2

[Poppis]

Thank's Poppis and Myarta for your answers.I'll have a look at this while playing but I recall a suspicion that it's somehow hardcoded (and maybe residual from RTW engine). I don't know where (in which file) it could be modded to switch it on and off.

It is set in the descr_settlement_mechanics.xml file.

I think it's more complicated. "Health" plays an important role here. In EBII "Health" is... "Food import"?

More complicated, yeah... Everybody(since RTW times) keeps saying how health is important and helps you fight plague and squalor(famine) but I have never heard anybody explain how it does that. Personally I'm a bit sceptical about all this.

[Jurand of Cracow]

It is set in the descr_settlement_mechanics.xml file.

Well, I think I know the file pretty well, but I miss where precisely is the SPF related to grain? Or anything related to grain?

More complicated, yeah... Everybody(since RTW times) keeps saying how health is important and helps you fight plague and squalor(famine) but I have never heard anybody explain how it does that. Personally I'm a bit sceptical about all this.

In the SSHIP forum we are quite convinced it does, although I haven't seen precise data. Maybe QS or Gigantus can confirm/reject?

[Poppis]

Well, I think I know the file pretty well, but I miss where precisely is the SPF related to grain? Or anything related to grain?

Oh I think I misunderstood you. There is no hardcoded relationship with the grain resource. It's just added as a requirement in the building files.

[Poppis]

The bigger issue (to me anyway) is that the Granary uses the "population_health_bonus" and those percentages are misleading. The health bonus is given in pips in EDB, and appears on the "settlement details" screen as values of .5% per pip. Unfortunately, the building description shows each .5 percent as 5%, so (for example) the L1 Granary building says you are getting "Food Imports: 15%" when in reality you are getting a pop growth bonus of 1.5%.

Equally odd (and probably related), "Food imports" (i.e. the Granary building, or more likely the "population_health_bonus" itself) also contributes public order benefits. You can see it visible on the positive side of the "Public Order" ledger, although the building itself does not grant public order benefits (easily verifiable in EDB). Increasing the strangeness of it all, there seems to be a 2-to-1 linkage between the number of health_bonus pips and the public order benefit. So 1 pip is 0% order bonus, 2 pips are 5%, 3 pips are 10% (rounding?), 4 pips are still 10%, 5 pips are STILL 10% (no rounding?) and 6 pips are 15% (math back on track).

I don't see a problem. Food import is health and so is managed by the SPF_HEALTH and SOF_HEALTH in descr_settlement_mechanics.xml. SPF is set to 1.0 so one pip is 0.5% PG. SOF is set to 0.5 so one pip is half of 5% PO. Level 1 granary has 3 pips so 7.5% PO(rounded up to 10%). Level 2 granary has 5 pips so 12.5% PO(rounded down to 10%). Level 3 granary has 7 pips so 17.5% PO(rounded up to 20%).

The percentages on the building card are of course misleading and I suppose hardcoded like so many other things in building/unit cards.

Edit: Worth noting that Gigantus and I ran some tests which proved that Grain DOES have a hard-coded farm income bonus (but not a large one), so you'll get farming income from a grain resource even if there isn't a farm in the province. Also saw the same hard-code income from 1 resource as from 3, so however it works, at least it doesn't tier.

Interesting, were these tests done on EB2 or some other mod? Do you have any more info on the specifics of the tests?

[Kull]

The percentages on the building card are of course misleading and I suppose hardcoded like so many other things in building/unit cards.

Besides the rounding problems (7.5 rounds up while 12.5 rounds down.....completely illogical), you have one bonus that provides two benefits in two different percentages yet only mentions one. So kind of a rat's nest. We'll have to look at that.

Interesting, were these tests done on EB2 or some other mod? Do you have any more info on the specifics of the tests?

It was an EB2 test on Farm bonuses, but I wasn't able to replicate the results. Apparently there's a base level of agricultural income present in every province (or at least those I looked at) and you don't need farms to get it. Nor grain either, apparently (looking back at my earlier tests, all the provinces had grain, and I just assumed the non-farm agri income came from the resource, not some base level given to all land). Anyway it's good to know there isn't any hardcoded effect from grain.

[Raiuga]

Besides the rounding problems (7.5 rounds up while 12.5 rounds down.....completely illogical)

Not telling this is what's going on, but statistically those approximations are logical. When you round a ".5" number you should always tend go for an even number because its always better to work in dividing operations. The general rule is to always round up, but it's technically wrong.

[davorj]

I really think guides like these should be integrated in the players guide possibly as an addendum (and not kept as a random forum thread). The complexity of EB2 turns new players off a bit - I tell from my own current experience. I am still looking for some guide (like this one) about proper government building: the player guide is good as a reference, but for someone who just started, it is not meaningful. I hope the developers/contributors don't expect casual gamers to glance through the zillion forum pages for such basic information.

Ow, and it is great to see that the EB project is still alive. I remember playing it more than 10 years ago!! Incredible work people!

[JC_von_Preussen]

A big thank you for this topic. This REALLY helps me understanding some basic things about income, especially concerning trade.

I really think guides like these should be integrated in the players guide possibly as an addendum (and not kept as a random forum thread). The complexity of EB2 turns new players off a bit - I tell from my own current experience. I am still looking for some guide (like this one) about proper government building: the player guide is good as a reference, but for someone who just started, it is not meaningful. I hope the developers/contributors don't expect casual gamers to glance through the zillion forum pages for such basic information.

Ow, and it is great to see that the EB project is still alive. I remember playing it more than 10 years ago!! Incredible work people!

I will join davorj statement. This guide is very important.

Thx again to all modders. Great project.

[Poppis]

I don't have the vanilla game files but I would assume it's done using the base farming level in descr_regions.txt. In EB2 this is set to 1 for all provinces but I would guess that in the base game some provinces will have higher base farming level, thus giving more income and pop growth.

[Jurand of Cracow]

That's right - in the SSHIP it varies between 1 and 20. But how it's achieved in the EBII ?

[Poppis]

Well there is no difference, except that provinces with grain get a small bonus from farms. This is done in the EDB file.

[rhavviepoodle]

I am morally certain that the distance from capital penalty to public order can go higher than 25. Right now in a Malkuta Nabatu campaign, Mleiha's penalty for distance is -35% (from the default capital, at least as of right now). To be honest, I am unsure, but perhaps the cap is different for certain factions. It would make sense that desert nomads would be worse at micromanaging their distant settlements than Rome, for example.

[QuintusSertorius]

I am morally certain that the distance from capital penalty to public order can go higher than 25. Right now in a Malkuta Nabatu campaign, Mleiha's penalty for distance is -35% (from the default capital, at least as of right now). To be honest, I am unsure, but perhaps the cap is different for certain factions. It would make sense that desert nomads would be worse at micromanaging their distant settlements than Rome, for example.

The cap is lower in camps than towns. As in distance matters less in camps. Mleiha is a town, so suffers the full penalty up to the cap.

[Poppis]

I am morally certain that the distance from capital penalty to public order can go higher than 25. Right now in a Malkuta Nabatu campaign, Mleiha's penalty for distance is -35% (from the default capital, at least as of right now). To be honest, I am unsure, but perhaps the cap is different for certain factions. It would make sense that desert nomads would be worse at micromanaging their distant settlements than Rome, for example.

The cap is lower in camps than towns. As in distance matters less in camps. Mleiha is a town, so suffers the full penalty up to the cap.

Oh wow, yeah the distance to capital section is completely wrong. I tested it in some previous patch and simply forgot to double check it before posting the guide, haha. Seems like the max distance penalty is at least 60%(although I only tested on campaign start where the longest possible distance is from seleukid empire). And yeah the distance penalty differs in camps, which I haven't included in the guide yet. Thanks for pointing it out.

[CanOmer]

Thanks for the info. I edited colors of unrest map for simplicity.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[SilverTiger]

Just out of interest, which mod file defines the base unrest for each settlement/region?

[Poppis]

Thanks for the info. I edited colors of unrest map for simplicity.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Thanks, will probably add this in at some point.

Just out of interest, which mod file defines the base unrest for each settlement/region?

descr_rebel_factions.txt in data folder.

It's the "chance" under each rebel type.

[wojtekimbier]

Many thanks for taking the time to write this valuable post, I bookmarked it for further reference.
BTW the simplified unrest map colors really helped.