The late game disappearance of Hyperaspistai

[Rendon]

This didn't get a response so I decided to repost as its own thread.

Why does the thorakitai epilektoi replace the hyperaspistai in Anatolia instead of the more generally available epilektoi hoplitai? It seems in most cases, the thorakitai epilektoi represents an evolution of the elite royal guard hoplite formations present in most Hellenic armies.


Whereas my understanding of the hyperaspistai is that its a unit unique to the west Anatolian greeks, wielding swords and javelins and made up of the finest and bravest soldiers as opposed to merely the trusted friends and confidants who protect the king.


The elite thorax spearmen don't even wield javelins (why don't they by the way, their description says they should,) and seem to fill a very different role than the hyperaspistai, so shouldn't they both be available in the late game with the elite hoplites fading with time as they should?

[QuintusSertorius]

The Hyperaspistai represents the Anatolian tradition of the elite hoplite. All elite hoplites wane out in the late era, because their class is usurped by middle-class professionals in the royal guard stakes. The only exception is in Makedonia, which stays traditional.

[z3n]

You can always use the console command to create units.

[Rendon]

If that is the case, then why do the epilektoi hoplitai, the literal elite hoplites, remain available in the late era? It seems odd to me that Hyperaspistai are supposed to represent elite hoplites when they fight with sword and javelin. And if it is not an oversight that Thorakitai Epilektoi do not wield javelins, perhaps their description should be altered?

[QuintusSertorius]

If that is the case, then why do the epilektoi hoplitai, the literal elite hoplites, remain available in the late era? It seems odd to me that Hyperaspistai are supposed to represent elite hoplites when they fight with sword and javelin. And if it is not an oversight that Thorakitai Epilektoi do not wield javelins, perhaps their description should be altered?

Because it doesn't apply to KH, or Makedonia. Those two are exceptions to the general trend.

Description is wrong, they shouldn't have javelins.

[Sar1n]

Epilektoi Hoplitai are KH units. Since KH represents the oldest hellenic entities-Athens, Sparta etc..., no wonder they're rather conservative and won't abandon their traditional style of warfare. Hyperaspistai belong to relatively new entities, not burdened that much by tradition.

[Rendon]

Epilektoi Hoplitai are KH units. Since KH represents the oldest hellenic entities-Athens, Sparta etc..., no wonder they're rather conservative and won't abandon their traditional style of warfare. Hyperaspistai belong to relatively new entities, not burdened that much by tradition.

Ah, I can see this is now the case in 2.3. In 2.2r the Epilektoi Hoplitai were available to Pergamon throughout the game, being used simultaneously alongside Thorakitai Epilektoi, which formed the basis of my confusion.

[QuintusSertorius]

Even for the factions that phase then out, they don't completely disappear, but drop to a very low refresh (a unit every 100 turns).