Hungary up!
ERE bumped my merchant,
I killed his.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1aj...b7Ptx-CKR-lCfC
Hungary up!
ERE bumped my merchant,
I killed his.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1aj...b7Ptx-CKR-lCfC
Provide pics
I hope you didn't break the following rule, otherwise you will have to replay:
Merchants need 60% to acquire other merchant's assets. Only allowed in your own regions, Rebel Controlled Regions, or regions you have aquired Trade rights to. Screenshots required
Last edited by Ramble12; March 16, 2019 at 11:43 AM.
Your level two merchant bumped my level 6 merchant that has been there for the past 6 turns.
No replay or pictures needed.
Merchant bumping isn’t illegal
"I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion."
----- Alexander The Great
Merchant bumping is an exploit, you are not supposed to consciously do it
Rules don't specify that while explicitly saying:
- Merchants need 60% to acquire other merchant's assets. Only allowed in your own regions, Rebel Controlled Regions, or regions you have aquired Trade rights to. Screenshots required.
I asked the admin to hop in and give a ruling on merchant bumping.
What you are trying to do here is justify your blatant rule break with what you believe was a rule break. That's not how it works and if you have your own rules you are playing by, ignoring those written in OP, I'd urge you to stop before you do other extraordinary stuff. But right now I am afraid refusing to post pictures for what rules say you must post 'em is defiance.
Tbh I have always been under the impression that moving agents with units is an exploit/not legal, but after talking with Ramble a bit I can see some of his points. Since we might be in for a change of rules, or at least more specific rules about this theme. I would like to call the hotseat to a pause and make a poll so that all the players can take part in this decision.
"I never asked for this, no more than I asked to be king. Yet dare I disregard her? We do not choose our destinies. Yet we must ... we must do our duty, no? Great or small, we must do our duty"
-Stannis Baratheon
Ok, I will share my points here too.
First of all pushing any agent (but merchants) should be legal as it is in any other hotseat, simply for the fact they can block you from building forts, reinforcing stacks etc.
Secondly since we are kind of imitating world politics here, my reasoning for pushing Genoese merchant off the resourse was military seizure of the resourse, as I have been in control of that region for a continuous period of time. The agent was pushed off with a unit in my own region, not with the mechant itself in an enemy region (what is widely considered an exploit).
But this for sure needs to be added/specified in the rules since we are at disagreement. I won't be voting here since some people would call me biased, but imo this move has the right to live as it does not contradict with logic (unlike pushing merchants with your own in enemy regions).
Is a pause really necessary? I don't think anyone's turn will turn on whether they can bump a merchant.
We are only talking about bumping merchants off resources. Ramble's stance is they should implicitly be allowed to bump in your own regions. If that was the case, there would be a rule in that regard, limiting bumping to your own regions. There isn't.
So there are only two options here, unless we create a new rule mid HS which I am strongly against, 1) merchant bumping is allowed at all times, 2) merchant bumping is an exploit.
Redboosty agrees that it is an exploit, with the caveat that he likes rambles suggested rule. So unless we want to make a new rule mid HS, bumping is banned. If not, I will gladly use calvary and spies to bump everyone's merchant off resources. That would suck for players earlier in turn order than me...oh well.
If that wasn't the case, it would say in the rules that it is banned. It doesn't. Rules don't work the way you described.
And no, we are not talking about unit bumping only. Sircumfrance is defying rules by acquiring assets of a merchant in an enemy region, so he will have to replay, unless he proves the move was legal
My stance is merchants can be bumped off by units in your own regions.
Here is the rule that applies to bumping merchants off resources to lower a player's income for the turn. Merchant bumping inherently benefits those players later in the turn order only.
- No exploits/bugs allowed. F.e. movement bug, naval attack spam, merchant stack/fort, agent stomping, surrounding armies/navies to deny retreat, spies spreading plague.. etc
Please point me to a rule stating merchants can be bumped off resources in your own regions.
I am discussing the new rule you want to add, not that SirCumFrance needs to have 60% chance to kill your merchant. I would note that if he had a 6 star and you a 2, he definitely had a 60% chance.
So you are voting for the addition of a new rule? Okay. Do you have a preference in the two possible interpretations of the rules we currently have? Is it that merchant bumping isn't an exploit and is allowed anywhere?
Do you have you own version of the rules? I don't understand where you get these. Quote the line from the OP that says exactly that I can't bump merchants off resourses. If the rules listed every thing that we are allowed to do, nobody would ever read them because of their enormous size, that's why everything that is not listed is allowed just as it has always been.
So you are telling me I must follow a non-existent rule when your friend doesn't obey to what is explicitly said in the rules and you are trying to cover him? I will stay out of this for now, because the level of hipocrisy in your posts reaches maximum levels.
And no, as you probably didn't read my first post - I am not taking part in the vote, as shouldn't you and your ally/friend because all 3 of us are biased by definition.
Oh come on man...I'm not being a hypocrite. I never said he shouldn't have to post pics or that merchants don't need a % chance to steal assets. For the third time, I am only talking about the merchant bumping bit.
Yes, the rules don't say everything you can do. By that same point, why would merchant bumping be limited to you own lands. Nothing says you can't bump merchants in other's lands. I hope you are following me this time, cause if not you are being the hypocrite here. You can't have this limitation and then say you can't bump in other's lands.
The rules do have a catch all clause on exploits and bugs. I am saying that applies to merchants taking resources without stealing the merchant's assets, as they are allowed to at 60%. You just have to have the proper max range and any agent can bump any merchant off any resource.
That is an bug in the game. That is the rule I am quoting. Asking me for another rule when I have clearly quoted this one multiple times is unproductive and hypocritical.
I read your post. So what if I asked for your opinion on the rules as they are. Redboosty said you caused him to do this vote based on something you said. I will be voting if you want a new rule put in place. You and SirCumFrance can sit out, sure.
The point is that merchants cannot be used in enemy lands without trade rights or explicit agreement. The argument isn’t and shouldn’t be over merchant bumping. The precious player should have to replay and that should be the end of this discussion
"I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion."
----- Alexander The Great
I always thought bumping was an exploit.
Clearly could acquire his assets with my merchant.
Here it is
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1M4...ZgS3PA7dF74wL4
Of course the discussion is about the bumping. It it had not occurred, I would not have to have retaken the resources.
Bumping merchants isn’t an exploit. And realistically it makes sense that a player should have control over the resources utilized in his own lands.
"I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion."
----- Alexander The Great
I have never bumped merchants or heard of it being allowed in a HS to protect your own resources. Where does this limitation to your own lands only come from? It's nowhere in the rules. It's either an exploit, as in most other HS, or you can do it anywhere.
Why should ramble follow some rule that you are just trying to make up, when we have an explicit rule that is being broken which states "merchants cannot acquire resources in enemy lands or lands in which you do not have trade rights access"?
"I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion."
----- Alexander The Great
Did you even look at the pic?
Okay, so your stance is it's not an exploit, therefore you can bump merchants of any resource at anytime
"Nothing says you can't bump merchants in other's lands."
Yes, that is absolutely what I was trying to say. And it was so since the very start until it was brought up now. I didn't mean to say that this must be or is limited to your controlled region, that was only how I wanted to see this rule be implemented in future and how I justified my own move that people called an exploit since it was brought up by Sircumfrance. I might have used some wrong phrasal verbs there since I made such an impression, but I hope I will be excused for not being a native speaker. Every time a new exploit/feature is found, it has to either be implemented in rules or agreed upon by everyone that it is allowed. Same thing happened with "bribing" rules, yet nobody claimed people doing that had to follow a non-existent rule beforehand.
Now that the pic was posted, I don't have any objections with the situation. But the move has to be specified