Chariots, elephants and camels?

[selv]

Hi,


I am asking in case someone remember or played the mod recently, I am working on a large mod based on DBM and plan to leave most of the units like
they are, so I didn't do much testing in battle area yet, too busy with the campaign. Can someone tell me how the units mentionned in the title behave,
if they are bugged most importantly?

I never played the original mod, nor any with such units but I read that elephants in EB2 are bugged, mislead the ai into thinking they can launch a siege without engines for example. Is this also the case here? Chariots woudn't be very efficient either?
It would save me some time if someone can enlighten me so I know if it's best to limit/prevent the use of these units? Thanks.

[rafmc1989]

Hi there!!

Wonderful, please if you plan to make a new personalized mod for DBM, go on!!

I cannot help atm, but I'm deeloping new contents in Invasio Barbarorum II using the contents from DBM Barbarian mod, you may want to share and take that content for your mod too, given you already start from the DBM base...

Actually, you may want to shae contents with the IBII team too, as I'm still monitoring DBM and part of IBII, so it's fine.

So coming to your question, all units listed above work but:

- Elephants without guns are more bugged (the only one "perfect" are the medieval based), so they do weird things (but still acceptable if we close an eye). In DBM there are tailored animations for them, I used them in the past and they were quite fine, though. But you always need siege engines to start an assault.
- Chariots, mhm, here more complicated: I did several tests, hehe, their behavior in battle is kinda odd, they use to "walk" across the lines, but never fight properly (again, if we close an eye they are somewhat ok)
- Camels, well, nothing to report: they behave like cavalry-based units.

I'd say, limit them as much as you can (apart from camels).

Hence, very good, please let us know the areas you are gonna cover in this new DBM based-mod, so we may "collaborate" across the teams!

[selv]

Thanks for the quick answer. I will make my tests when I get there to see myself but I will likely severely limit elephants and chariots units. I didn't start yesterday but my previous work stayed in stasis for a while until some time ago when I decided to resume. I am mostly a scripter so I may not have much to share, that's why DBM and it's team generosity is so convenient for me to make my own "Rome". Was planning a preview when I am in the final stages but to give you a quick idea:


The original map going as far to India (too far for the damn 199 settlements and 30 factions limits among other) has been reduced east no further than Irania, and sometimes I say to myself it should be Persis. South no further than upper egypt/Thebes, and north to the denmark/cimbri territory, with a little bit of scandinavia part of a 'ingratus' territory.


Some originals factions had to be cut obviously but I am trying to save as much of theirs units that the new map credibly allow, historicly speaking and all. Britannia is still there but I revamped the Britons into Belgae, with some units descriptions changed to match among other things. Same for the Sabateans into Nabateans and more. For India, I am making them into the Boii so there is nothing indian to save in the new faction. Same with the Kush being turn in a special faction supposed to represent the main hellenestic powers outside of Greece, Syracuse, Massilia and Pergamon but it might end up being just one of the three if it's ai label doesn't manage to behave like I want, or maybe a other hellenestic faction for the Diadochi wars, will see. I am still debating what to do with Garamatians and Backtria.


The mod start in -321 and should end in 14 like the original Rome, the main reason being that it is fours turns a year with everything adjusted.
The free Scotland slot faction has been made in a other roman faction, in connection with a political system using traits, buildings and the attributes democraty/aristocraty. Details are still changing since I am trying to stay as simple as possible with the modding and the gameplay but the main core is:
Depending on what side the main roman faction characters are in majority and several other parameters, some of their provinces and characters will turn to the new faction who will be for the republic or imperialist, still depending on which side you are. The senate will also show up as a true faction at these times, being your allies or foes on the same conditions, and go back to it's state of guild once the conflict is over. It is not too heavy and easily manipulable for people who would have a problem with it, or just want to decide when they want a little civil war. It is not for the ai mostly, too complicated to make it handle.


This core politic system will have a 'lite' version once it is balanced for the others factions, with some differences for the cultures but nothing too long to adapt from the romans system.
It is also used in some historicals events like the civils wars from the republic's end. Speaking of that, there is no more full or light campaign. I removed much of the DBM scripts, such as the dowry script, white flag, settlements changing names and more I don't remember right now. The concepts are very good or eyes candy but many were just a big pain to check when I reworked the map back then. I changed or replaced many scripts with some I find more useful for the gameplay. More details when it's ready for a complete preview/near release.


Given the starting date, some factions (player only) can choose a set of optional scripts witch do their best given the limits of the game to reproduce some historicals wars/events, in ambiance if not in full details, sometimes with true foes factions, sometimes with independant sub-factions. The Samnites for example, They just can't have their own slot faction in these conditions. The romans are the better served so far, the factions fighting the Diadochi Wars also have a few at the beginning.
I will see what I can do for the others but probably not at the first release.(If there is someone interested)


Speaking of history, my idea isn't to make a full historical mod, if some units are a little earlier at the starting date, well so be it. If Belgae and Nabateans units don't exactly match with their history from the factions they were revamped from, all I can say is that it looks close enought for a blessed amateur in history like, well me. I am no modeler, I tried believe me. And even if I was, it is even more time to spend on. Just redistributing the units isn't exactly done with two clicks, like you must know.


What else, well it seems enought for a 'quick' idea. Each factions has it's own ai label and I am working on making more that changes with the time frame, or depending on various states of wars/conditions. Let me know if you think I have something of use but as you can see,
my mod isn't stunning of new concepts, from what I can tell.

[rafmc1989]

"My mod isn't stunning of new concepts"...

Well, actually your ideas are true new concepts, to say the truth.

I see your redistribution of provinces, map and factions, ok it's consistent with your plan of the campaign.
For the scripts, fine, I'd suggest you recreate the Roman civil war by focusing on the human player, the AI cannot understand such complex dynamics. In earlier versions of DBM, there was the senate, then changed into guild, so you already know how to show it up and cause the great civil war, hence.

It's by far ok, nice idea. Actually, fine, after a first release I could look at it (cannot be involved in other developments atm, would be too much). Where the need is, in terms of units, scripts and factions, I could then support you, no problem.

For the new Greek polies, I'd go with this one. By choosing the right ai label (something more "defensive") and a good set of scripts like garrisons, scripted wars and alliances, the AI can do good things at the end (due to the segmentation of its territory, it needs to be scriptly boosted).
And the sub-factions too, nice idea. You could recreate some historical spawnings and uprising in scripts and historical events, with real characters showing up.

Sooo, yep, please go on with the project, it will be consistent and fun enough... As said, if there are incosistencies with the units and their factions, we can solve it after a first release, no problem.

[selv]

Well, actually your ideas are true new concepts, to say the truth.

They are? We will see when it's ready then, I spent so many time on this and never played much mods so I am not sure. I often 'spy' on them when I have loads of free time though, inspiration and all.


Thanks for your support, it's perfectly alright that you have a full schedule, I work better on my own, teams are all good but it forces you to wait or coordinate with someone else 'schedule' sometimes.
And waiting isn't my strong suit. Thanks to DBM, the classical setting is there already and even if it is a lot of tedious stuffs to 'remade' it to my idea, it still cover my area of ability.


I will let you know but indeed, units and other graphic no longer in use or a little ahead of time if there are some can wait until release, it's not a priority for me, you know, as long as it looks 'close enought'.

For the new Greek polies, I'd go with this one. By choosing the right ai label (something more "defensive") and a good set of scripts like garrisons, scripted wars and alliances, the AI can do good things at the end (due to the segmentation of its territory, it needs to be scriptly boosted).
And the sub-factions too, nice idea. You could recreate some historical spawnings and uprising in scripts and historical events, with real characters showing up.

It is the core thing yes, though I am very careful with the spawnnings, I don't want to turn it into a overkill or a game disguster. So far, the battle of Sentinum is the only big spawning in the samnites wars for instance, and the player is warned a few turns before through the other events in the chain so they have time to prepare.
I don't use real names for the characters after the starting date, it requires labels and more scripting but I may change my mind in some cases, will see.

Let's take the war of gauls, it is not easy to explain in details without lots of technical details but basically, the better FM you will have send to fight it will be your Caesar. It creates a 'sub-faction' at first within the playable roman faction, then depending on the actions of the said 'Caesar', it can play historically and degenerate into civil war or take a other course. If he cross 'the Rubicon', well it is his last limit. I have a few events like this on the work, trying to mix roleplay and history.

I will detail at the release but generally it will be recommended to not blitz like a red plague with the romans. Almost each faction has enought room to 'brieve' and more with the new map, and it is better to definitly let the celts in the gauls to do so until the historical periods, same with Egypt, Macedonia, Greece and Carthage, if they want the scenarios history/roleplay. There is plenty of other stuffs to do and others territories. Now people like it or not, that's why the all thing will be optional but if they choose no to the first pop up event at turn one, they will get none of it. All or nothing I guess.

[rafmc1989]

Ok very good then, I like your plans and the system you're adopting.

Hence, fine, try to be as articulatedbas possible with the scripts and events, giving a special flavour to the civil war.

Later on, btw, I can assist with units, graphics and further scripting. Looking forward to it.