German elections 2017

[Timoleon of Korinthos]

It means Merkel will be more hesitant, more inefficient at dealing with problems, more inadequate at providing leadership and more incompetent at shaping a unifying vision than ever. But perhaps, Alastor, we should care about Europe first and the EU second. Europe existed long before the EU and will continue to exist after it dissolves, if it ever dissolves, provided Europeans and their cultures have not been overrun by Muslims and Africans in the meantime. Seen in this light, I am happily surpirsed by the result, since the unexpected success of AfD is a very promising development in this direction.

[Basil II the B.S]

Merkel's economic miracle:

+54% poors.
+80% workers with 2 jobs.
+30% low income pensioners
+100% low income workers.

God bless globalization.

[athanaric]

The current Grand Coalition government (Union, SPD) received a minus of together ca. 12-13 %.

And yet, we'll be blessed with another four years of Merkel. Goes to illustrate that Germany badly needs a term limitation like the US.

For the first time in the history of the Bundesrepublik, a far right party (AfD) enters the Bundestag (parliament, Berlin).

Well... we've had actual Nazis in parliament after the war. They just went over to the CDU and the SED (and IIRC the SPD, too) and started anew.

A desaster for the social-democracy, SPD (a minus of 4-5 %, the most bad result ever). SPD leadership (M. Schultz) says, they will go into opposition as "bullwark of democracy".

Serves them right for bringing walking disasters like Maas, Özoguz, and Schwesig into positions of power, and generally being part of a terrible government over the last four years. Hardly Schulz's fault, though.

[Basil II the B.S]

That sounds like (more) bad news for Macron.

EDIT: BTW I can totally see why Schulz would want to keep the SPD as far away from the CDU as possible after this result. In such coalitions the junior partner always gets screwed. The SPD in opposition also keeps the AfD from being the main opposition party, symbolic I suppose but sth. But it does raise the question of what kind of government Germany will eventually end up with. The resurgent FDP would be right to have just as many qualms as the SPD does about joining forces with Merkel. So if not a Grand coalition and if not Jamaica, then what? And to insert my own personal stake here, what will all that mean for the EU?

The EU is run by idiots who don't understand that their policies destroy the lower classes and thus force the latter to vote elsewhere. The number of people who still think ''yeah maybe the elite will do something now'' is shrinking every day.

And yet, we'll be blessed with another four years of Merkel. Goes to illustrate that Germany badly needs a term limitation like the US.

I now remember when Putin was ''totally Hitler'' for having 4 terms. Now 4 terms Merkel is ''leader of the free world''.

Neocon propaganda at its finest.

[Timoleon of Korinthos]

Merkel's economic miracle:

+54% poors.
+80% workers with 2 jobs.
+30% low income pensioners
+100% low income workers.

God bless globalization.

Because Merkel can put an end to globalization. Not even Trump can, who steers an economic behemoth and has the backing of the most powerful military in the universe.

[Chlodwig I.]

And yet, Germany is debating what to do with the mountain of money they have.

Well maybe they could give it back to the citizen who pay already top income Tax rate
15 Years ago you had to earn above 100.000€ p.a. to reach top Tax rate today you are already with 55.000€ paying top taxrate

average income was 15 years ago 35.000€ today its 40.000€
in that time we had inflation in total of around 222%
but income has only rissen by around 20%
while Governmental Budget has increased in the same time by 50%


Government is taxing us to death,
and wasteing the money Airport which cost 3 the amount as planned an noone will now if its ever finished, opra hall in Hamburg with exploded cost,
Billions of € for illegal and immigrants, not able to move criminal foreignes out of the country.
While our Medic service, schools, infrastructure and old age pension is getting worser and worser.

[Basil II the B.S]

Because Merkel can put an end to globalization. Not even Trump can, who steers an economic behemoth and has the backing of the most powerful military in the universe.

Trump stupidly thought ''now that I won the elite will be forced to cooperate with me'', and filled positions with Kushner, Cohn and similar to act as mediators. That's the mistake that normally the left does, think that once they won, the rest will have to make concessions to them, one that comes to mind is Tsipras.

Of course once you sit at the table of negotiations, they fill your dish with tasty things and make you forget why you were there in the first place. The lesson is the same from Tsipras. No negotiations. You pull the plug.

[Alastor]

It means Merkel will be more hesitant, more inefficient at dealing with problems, more inadequate at providing leadership and more incompetent at shaping a unifying vision than ever.

Yes, that is precisely what I'm afraid of.

But perhaps, Alastor, we should care about Europe first and the EU second. Europe existed long before the EU and will continue to exist after it dissolves, if it ever dissolves, provided Europeans and their cultures have not been overrun by Muslims and Africans in the meantime. Seen in this light, I am happily surpirsed by the result, since the unexpected success of AfD is a very promising development in this direction.

Europe existed long before true, but the world is hardly what it was 100 years ago. Europe needs to come together in order to again wield power in the international stage. In order to matter. The EU is a way to do that, in fact the only credible way presented so far. And if it fails, Europe will have wasted decades and will miss many more searching for another path. The problem with the EU is that a corrupt, ineffective and uninspired elite has been dragging their feet for too long when it comes to doing what must be done. Giving room for dissatisfaction to drive a wedge between European societies, to force them to look inwards. But how is that a vision for a better future? That's a knee-jerk reaction. The far-right's rise, is just that, a continental scale knee-jerk reaction. Earlier it was mentioned that democracy in Germany may be faltering, if Merkel is the only viable option. Indeed it is, but not just in Germany.

[LinusLinothorax]

300 triggered students and other lefties, including Antifa scum, are currently protesting in front of the building where the AFD is celebrating its 13%. Kept in check by the police, they are posing with posters demanding the dissolution of the AFD and the usual drivel about xenophobia and racism:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[HannibalExMachina]

good. the scaremongering afd scum has no place in a democratic society. this is just a taste of what expects them in the future.

[DaVinci]

Yes, that is precisely what I'm afraid of.

Europe existed long before true, but the world is hardly what it was 100 years ago. Europe needs to come together in order to again wield power in the international stage. In order to matter. The EU is a way to do that, in fact the only credible way presented so far. And if it fails, Europe will have wasted decades and will miss many more searching for another path. The problem with the EU is that a corrupt, ineffective and uninspired elite has been dragging their feet for too long when it comes to doing what must be done. Giving room for dissatisfaction to drive a wedge between European societies, to force them to look inwards. But how is that a vision for a better future? That's a knee-jerk reaction. The far-right's rise, is just that, a continental scale knee-jerk reaction. Earlier it was mentioned that democracy in Germany may be faltering, if Merkel is the only viable option. Indeed it is, but not just in Germany.

Bold part: Not the case, for Germany. From the 75 % voter participation, set as 100 % votes, 82 % voters elected civil democratic parties. Keep the church in the village (a saying in Germany for coming back to reality), it is still (only) ca. 13 % who voted a far right party, just with a partial voter-base, which wishes to destroy the civil democracy in Germany, and the biggest part of these votes is protest-voting of people who don't feel themselves representated (and largely voter-participation of the east-german federal states).

My personal prediction for the next election is, that the AfD will have here and now (for this legislative term) a sole appearance in Berlin and won't come back, just as kinda break (caesura) for the understanding of a civil democracy - now, the people will have much more the option to realise, that the AfD representatives are imcapable "politicians".

For the ones who do not know enough of the political landscape: There is no relevant party in Germany, which supports the AfD or would ever go into an alliance with them, except for the NPD (successor of the NSDAP) which indeed actively support/ed the AfD, which are but not relevant. Dear neighbors of europe and people of the world, in that special (historical) regard or background, you can calm down and are welcome to realise, that Germany is long a civil democratic country.

[RubiconDecision]

Globalization is a curse that is only possible when citizens give up their national identity, foolishly trust in the elites uberwealthy globalists false promises, allow cheap goods to flood Western Civilization, breaks any semblance of fairness in the relationship between worker and employer, relies upon some exploited foreign worker being paid abysmally, and then presuming all of these destabilizing attributes can persist with a new even cheaper labor source next.

It's a curse. It's also unrealistic as it displaces the industrial base which forms some portion of the middle class and damages low level white collar administrators and professionals who had been in positions of oversight over the now unemployed workers. Then it harms every service industries that relies upon the middle class industrial base. Then it harms construction and trades as the middle class can't afford homes. Then it harms the taxbase and the pensioners and government workers.

Stupidly considering economic migrants to be refugees, harms the limited resources for ACTUAL refugees. The limited dedicated budgets for a handful are redistributed to numbers far exceeding realistic mitigation. Which then exacerbates budget crises. Insanely mismanaged refugee mitigation is worse than no refugee mitigation,because while you may handle more initially and it seems heroic and more humanitarian, as time passes you burn out refugee facilitators, social services are at the breaking point, volunteers quit and and governments could never afford refugee mitigation without them.

Merkel made the entire situation WORSE, yet her stupidity by reneging on UNHCR commitments, precipitated the food rationing crisis in the refugee camps, creating a cascading issue, that ultimately is creating a massive brain drain in Africa and the Middle East.

I am not surprised to see the gains by German nationalists. They are facing the issues of the lies of globalism and mismanaged refugee mitigation.

I am no Ayn Rand fan, but she was right about human dynamics and motivation being driven by selfishness. You cannot help anyone without putting your own needs first, and then help others facilitate their success after ensuring your own survival.

Let's say you have $10 million and want to best help refugees. 90% of refugees should return when it is secure, so the main effort is diplomacy and stability...locally so refugee camps are accessible to the most people, then allow them to transition Home. 10% may desire to leave but may not possess the skills, education, backbone, and will to emigrate to the West. The standard is 2.5 to 3 years in a refugee camp to determine this process.

Otherwise all you have done is exported valuable citizens to the West and further destabilized their Home country. Do this in many countries, as the EU did, and you have seriously harmed and exacerbated a broken country.

Is it better to spend those millions locally where labor and resources are cheap? Or foolishly waste money by paying 10-100 times more in the West PLUS factoring transportation?

How bizarre and illogical and actually harmful the EU's actions have been.

[Condottiere 40K]

This stuff comes in waves; I think the last time was at the turn of the millenium.

[RubiconDecision]

Buying locally benefits the world. As long as a country has the natural resources, by buying locally then unfair competition by cheap labor is less of a destabilizing factor, yet trading within a country still competes. This means all nations support their citizens. This stabilizes education and future generations. This helps citizens to prosper. This creates economic stability and creates wealth and makes a robust taxbase from which to fund government. Yet it simultaneously reduces the need for social services for the impoverished for that population is smaller.

This benefits 3rd world nations ultimately as they create their own industry and services, and thus wages and benefits and education.

That is the opposite of predatory globalization and hopefully Germans are waking up. You might have record profits from investments by buying the stock of multinational businesses which exploit their workers, but the instability becomes endemic to your friends and neighbors who lost their jobs.

The reason inflation has not increased wages is globalization coupled with unsound previous trade policy.

Free Trade is ruinous to currency because first they are not backed by a standard, then since cheap labor from elsewhere cuts the price of imported goods, then demand for domestic goods falls, so economists try to keep the currency lower. They devalued their own currency yet didn't help their workers in the long run, and further reduced their wages by their meddling.

The traditional rationale for refugees becoming aliens transitioning to citizenship was largely out of compassion that only could occur based upon stability within the new host country and prosperity. That selfishness first funded refugee mitigation. It also typically meant jobs were available to them.

The traditional need for immigration policy was selfishly driven since an inadequate number of citizens were available to work in critical roles, so economic migrants came in, got married, started families, and became citizens.

It's driven by prosperity from the citizens who act as volunteers and pay taxes. If you bring in economic migrants and refugees, and there are no jobs that they can do, or they compete for jobs and you have high unemployment, you created new economic problems for your citizens, plus increased your social services budget too! How is that better?

That drives nationalism too!

[Basil II the B.S]

good. the scaremongering afd scum has no place in a democratic society. this is just a taste of what expects them in the future.

What you are advocating is called fascism, not democracy.

Same goes for DaVinci, his attempt to paint dissent, a core element of civil democracy, as something to ban and his laughable predictions.


Let's make you cry even further: leftwing parties, for having betrayed the working class, are in a total rout, not just in Germany, but all over Europe, Portugal being the only exception.

Sticking to Germany:
-SPD got soundly beaten by its ''moderate'' counterpart, CDU.
-Afd did better than Die Linke.
-pro business FDP did better than Green watermelons.

Of course, while you are here trying to explain to me how stopping Afd is more important. Pathetic. No agenda, just chaotic rambling about imaginary racism while the working class is crashed by globalization. So much for the intellectual superiority of the left.

[RubiconDecision]

Only Germans can solve Germany's issues and new opportunities. That's why it's irrelevant what an American thinks about who should win, as well as pointing out the stupidity of globalists leaders trying to steer Germany.

But I can hope German leadership will better assist real refugees and stop harming the working class and all due to globalism.

In America a recent article pointed out that real wages for the working class Americans have fallen since 1973 due to extreme inflation yet wages were NOT adjusted for that inflation.

So it doesn't matter if you think a certain number is a fair wage because unless you calculate inflation for those wages versus home prices, then likely you are more and more harmed.

Which is why the middle class has been devastated by cheap Chinese labor and automation. That stymied wages and for decades.

Obviously we cannot raise wages or hyperinflation will result. But what we can do across the political spectrum is stop Free Trade and globalism. Then we can slowly use debt forgiveness to reduce what people owe and thus create wealth.

We can't pay them more, but if we slowly forgive loans for all...from the poorest struggling university graduate to the wealthy banks, then more disposable effective income will exist. Plus such a plan means vastly higher net worth. This increases stability and that increases the value of the currency versus other nations.

How much more could you afford to invest if your property is slowly paid off by debt forgiveness? How much sooner can you purchase a new car since that principal on your mortgage is now forgiven. How better can Millennials seek out new employment if their university loans are carefully and intentionally forgiven.

If the debts of the banks can be forgiven and managed, then the working class debt can be forgiven too.

Rather than guaranteed income which would certainly be inflationary, debt forgiveness creates no new income, causes no new taxes, and creates no inflation.

[Basil II the B.S]

The collapse of the Western middle class points towards the end of political centrism. What’s the future for democracy?

Those guys get it.

The elite needs a healthy middle class to avoid the poor from using their numbers to forcefully remove them. Globalization kills the middle class, but enriches the elite. Hence, the elite has forgot it needs the middle class to avoid the tyranny of the poor.

This is Aristotle's 2000+ years lesson and it's still valid. Globalization can't be fixed, thus the middle class can't be fixed, thus revolution is inevitable. The Left that has been waiting for centuries for it will see the Right leading the revolt, because the Left couldn't escape the bourgeoisezation process and has decided that white people are evil and must die anyway. People in the future will laugh at this.

[Ziltoid]

Merkel can thank herself for parties like AfD rising up as reactionary force to her policies and irresponsible invitation of all poor MENA people to come live on european welfare with magic word asylum. Just lose your passport first so you can pretend to be from country that gets asylum easier, and perhaps 17 year old so you get child treatment.

People in Europe are tired of this, similar protest voting trend is likely to continue in many other countries in coming elections too, so Merkel has managed to do this to whole Europe.

Finnish 2019 elections are going to be interesting, also will be curious to see if Sweden finally starts voting against their catastrophically failed immigration policies.

And yes im tad worried if parties like AfD have actually competent politicians rather than just one-trick-pony populists who ride this wave caused by Merkel. Worth considering now that more and more are getting in positions of power.

[Alastor]

@Basil
Indeed the seeming collapse and marginalization of the middle class is basically why I said earlier that democracy is faltering and not just in Germany. I was not referring to the fact that AfD made it into parliament like DaVinci assumed. The rise of the far-right is a symptom of the decline, a knee-jerk reaction as I said earlier, but it's not the source of the problem. People should realize that. Too often it feels that the reaction of the more liberal minded folk to any mention of the far-right is an automatic knee-jerk reaction itself.

[Diamat]

Why do people keep calling the AfD far-right? It is about as right as American Republicans (arguably less so than Republicans). One just has to take a look at the AfD platform, which is rather typically conservative, in the liberal sense, but in no way resembling fascism.