Prelude to Version 2.3

[hlidskjalf]

Yes, quite a few. The remaining factions, along with a revamp of an existing one is planned. There'll be a host more units and lots of new gameplay features.

ugh now i can't wait for 2.4 and 2.3 isn't even out yet

[svramj]

Elephants are terrible in and of themselves, because they're basically a vestigial relic of RTW code that M2TW doesn't handle well.

As I said, we've got a script to help the AI out; the player will have to shell out for the recruitable kind.

On the Mauryan noble bodyguard being turned into "dismounted charioteers" and not into proper cavalry, how about Porus's son? He was put in charge of the cavalry (not chariotry) during the battle of Hydaspes. It was possible he led the division on a chariot as there was a small brigade of likewise warriors accompanying him, but as the position of leading horsemen was such a high honor (to be given to the heir) was fighting on horseback for the commanders really so unlikely? Wouldn't the "prestige" ranking of mounts be: elephant, then chariots, then horsemen? I know you guys are still technically following that as they will be envisioned as "dismounted charioteers" but, c'mon, without the chariots they'll just be footmen, the lowest type of soldier in a very caste-oriented Indian army. Sure we can "roleplay" and "pretend" there's an invisible chariot behind the bodyguard, but with actual chariot units elsewhere it wouldn't really stick would it? Did the Kshatriya really disdain horseback riding so much?

That would be bad from gameplay point of view - chariots are very easy to kill if not used right, especialy AI can kill them without player's contribution. With elephant bodyguards there are sieges where their army stand still from time to time, but with chariots there would be field battles where their army run away at start alltime. It is easier to roleplay chariots parked behind lines as pretend enemy army isnt routing.

I must admit that I prefer bodyguards on foot, they are hardest to kill especially if they are in large group of units. I even tried to make mod to convert all bodyguards to footsoldiers. It might be ahistorical, but seeing every general to die in failed cavalry charge on my flank doesnt sound historical either.

There is evidence of Indian generals fighting as cavalry in this time period and even before this time period, Porus's son in the battle of Hydaspes to King Nedunchezhian in deep southern Pandyan dynasty (though not as caste oriented as their vedic northern neighbours) preferred to fight as cavalry apart from the usual elephant or chariot. Like QuintusSertorius said Chariot and foot are basically the same, charioteers dismounted whenever required to fight on close, which the gameplay doesn't support. Indian armies with their 4 arm (elephant, chariot, cavalry and infantry) and later emphasis to cavalry over chariot all needed the generals to have better visibility and mobility to manage their armies and complex tactics. I agree infantry bodyguard makes sense from a gameplay point due to M2TW handling of chariots and elephants. But cavalry is the next best historical option behind elephants and chariots. Though there aren't much pictorial representations of this during this period, there are written evidences of Indian generals preferring to fight as cavalry in notable battles.

[QuintusSertorius]

Sorry, our historical lead on the faction doesn't agree that cavalry make sense as the bodyguard this early.

[badass7]

Really can't wait for the new release. I've been putting off starting new campaigns until the new version comes out. But with all the changes it's hard to know which faction to start with!

Out if curiosity, how many EDB slots are left for models in the mod? With a new faction planned, I imagine it must be getting very close to the 500 max!

[Genghis Skahn]

You guys must be bonkers to actually want a chariot BG for Gandhara in M2TW; it's basically asking for your FMs to be easily killed and virtually useless against other BGs. This isn't RTW guys, where chariots and elephants work properly; it's M2TW with it's far less superior battle mechanics(especially in terms of sieges). Just think: if CA weren't so numbskulled to make Elephants unable to break down walls and gates in M2TW, you could still have an elephant BG for Gandhara--but that isn't how things work is it? Realistically, this infantry BG is the best you could hope for in terms of historicity, minimizing bugs, and actual usefulness in game.

[QuintusSertorius]

Really can't wait for the new release. I've been putting off starting new campaigns until the new version comes out. But with all the changes it's hard to know which faction to start with!

Out if curiosity, how many EDB slots are left for models in the mod? With a new faction planned, I imagine it must be getting very close to the 500 max!

There are only 6 slots left that don't have a unit planned. There are still old concepts or never-concepted units on the current list which need to be reviewed and possibly removed, but we intend to use all slots.

There are 356 units in 2.3 (that includes Client Rulers, ships and the two units you have to include to avoid CTDs). Still a long way to go with new additions.

[Hummer]

350 out of 500, that's 60%, things are starting to look good...

[hlidskjalf]

are the celtic factions considered more or less complete?

[QuintusSertorius]

are the celtic factions considered more or less complete?

No, there's a load of Celtic regional units still to come, as well as events.

[Sar1n]

350 out of 500, that's 60%, things are starting to look good...

Actually, 356 out of 500 is over 70%.

[Hummer]

Actually, 356 out of 500 is over 70%.

Good point, the math in my head sucks. That's starting to sound really good. Excellent. Events for the Celts, interesting.

[hlidskjalf]

No, there's a load of Celtic regional units still to come, as well as events.

ahh i'm fascinated to find out more.

[Krampus]

There are only 6 slots left that don't have a unit planned. There are still old concepts or never-concepted units on the current list which need to be reviewed and possibly removed, but we intend to use all slots.

There are 356 units in 2.3 (that includes Client Rulers, ships and the two units you have to include to avoid CTDs). Still a long way to go with new additions.

Are the unit names without stats in the export_descr_unit some of the ones on y'all intend to finish? Other than the Rhodian Slingers, I remember reading one of your posts that that unit is scrapped.

[QuintusSertorius]

Are the unit names without stats in the export_descr_unit some of the ones on y'all intend to finish? Other than the Rhodian Slingers, I remember reading one of your posts that that unit is scrapped.

Nope, pay no attention to those labels, no one has touched them in years (besides when I periodically delete some).

[d'Asseaux]

Great news. I'm looking forward to install the new version of the mod.
Thank you for you work and good luck!

But I also have some questions to the mod developers.

Concerning bugs.
1) Did you fixed the field of games description for Taksashila ("Should not be visible, please report this error")?
2) Did you fixed Indo-Greek Medium Infantry (Vratyakshatriya tomarabharas) availability for recruitment as mercenaries in some eastern provinces (at least in Nisaya region (Dahyu Daha)) from the very campaign start?
3) Did you removed cactuses from pictures at the unit descriptions of African slingers (Qala'im afriqim)?

Concerning gameplay.
4) In EB II v. 2.3 what factions are relatively complete and thus recommended to start with?
5) Will the new version of the gameplay guide or a new guide be published with v.2.3 release or we have to study current version?

[QuintusSertorius]

1) Yes.
2) There's nothing to "fix" they're in a large pool and could travel. They start off only a single point and increase to 2 later on.
3) Yes.
4) No faction is complete, lots of them have had updates applied to them.
5) The guide already released is materially complete, there are only small changes between that and whatever the final version looks like.

[d'Asseaux]

2) There's nothing to "fix" they're in a large pool and could travel. They start off only a single point and increase to 2 later on.

Is it normal that they are present from the very beginning of the campaign, when there has been no any Indo-Greek state at all yet? The culture mix was already present before the Indo-Greek state appeared or vice versa?

4) No faction is complete, lots of them have had updates applied to them.

I see, but some of them are said to be much more elaborated than others. For instance, in 2.2 it was recommended to play Hellenistic factions as the most completed ones (so far as they could be for that progress stage). And what about 2.3? Hellenistic factions plus smth else? What exactly?

5) The guide already released is materially complete, there are only small changes between that and whatever the final version looks like.

So the guide won't be updated with the 2.3 release?

[QuintusSertorius]

Is it normal that they are present from the very beginning of the campaign, when there has been no any Indo-Greek state at all yet? The culture mix was already present before the Indo-Greek state appeared or vice versa?

Yes, it's normal. They're not Baktrians and the culture they come from predates the campaign start by more than a generation, since it began with Alexander.

I see, but some of them are said to be much more elaborated than others. For instance, in 2.2 it was recommended to play Hellenistic factions as the most completed ones (so far as they could be for that progress stage). And what about 2.3? Hellenistic factions plus smth else? What exactly?

Sab'yn are much more complete than they were in 2.2b, with the addition of the tribal units who form the backbone of their armies, and camelry. Along with a host of scripted features. They're still missing settled Bedouin infantry and some late units.

Most of the Hellenistic factions have more features than before, and a few more units. Carthage and Rome are similarly updated. Arevaci have had an overhaul. Browse the changelog, it should give you a good idea of who's had a lot of change.

So the guide won't be updated with the 2.3 release?

Mantaprey is busy, so it might not.

[I_Damian]

Will 2.3 be out for Christmas? I was there for the very first release of EB (was it 0.7x?) back in 2007 and I spent pretty much all Christmas week, when it was freezing outside, nice and cosy in my house, marvelling at the beautiful masterpiece that was EB. I'd like to do the same this Christmas.

Basically what I'm saying is... search Google for the cutest kitty ever. GET 2.3 OUT FOR CHRISTMAS OR THE CUTE KITTY GETS IT!!!1

[YourMadDoc]

Will 2.3 be out for Christmas? I was there for the very first release of EB (was it 0.7x?) back in 2007 and I spent pretty much all Christmas week, when it was freezing outside, nice and cosy in my house, marvelling at the beautiful masterpiece that was EB. I'd like to do the same this Christmas.

Basically what I'm saying is... search Google for the cutest kitty ever. GET 2.3 OUT FOR CHRISTMAS OR THE CUTE KITTY GETS IT!!!1

I hope not, I hope it is halfway out already . But you never know what might happen, or what bug can crawl out. I started new campaign with old version already.