Jesus was white...

[Roma_Victrix]

...at least in the mind of this Roman mosaic artist from the late 4th/early 5th century AD, i.e. during the tenure of Pope Siricius (384-399 AD) or the pontificate of Innocent I (401-417 AD). This is one of the earliest depictions of Jesus Christ, although there are earlier ones from the 3rd and 4th centuries AD. This particular mosaic isn't located in Ravenna. No! It's actually in the eternal city of Rome, in all its late antique mosaic glory! Located in the apse of the Basilica of Santa Pudenziana. It's interesting to note the similarities in appearance of Jesus in this Paleochristian mosaic with the later, much more well-known iconic Byzantine depictions of Christ. By the 6th century AD the Eastern Romans seemed to have had a fairly uniform way of depicting Christ.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...a,_Rome_W6.JPG




Of course, the depictions of Jesus have varied according to different regional and cultural sensibilities. For instance, the Orthodox Ethiopian depiction of Christ is quite different from what you would see in a French Catholic, English Protestant or Russian Orthodox church.



There are also depictions of Christ that are more in line with the facial features and common physical phenotypes of Levantine peoples (i.e. West Asians) in and around what was ancient Judea. Or, as shown in this one below from the Coptic Orthodox Church of Saint Barbara in Egypt, a North African style Jesus:



What a skin-changing chameleon, this Jesus fellow! No wonder he's so famous.

So then, what are your thoughts on the various cultural and artistic depictions of Jesus throughout the ages? Do the early Roman depictions strike you as more or less the Roman acculturation and appropriation of Jesus as a true blue Roman? I mean, Jesus was a Middle Eastern Jew, but he was also a provincial Roman subject. And by that I don't necessarily mean skin tone (the Romans were a diverse bunch after all, and various pale-skinned people in the Levant can easily be confused for Europeans); this could also mean everything from his clothing to hair and beard styles, if not common mannerisms and even background scenery.

[Alastor]

I mean, Jesus was a Middle Eastern Jew

Well not necessarily. His mother maybe, but we have no information on God's nationality or appearance. He could very well look like a Norse viking, or a Australian aborigine. So if Jesus took after his father, he could look very different to a middle eastern Jew. That way and until a photograph of Jesus is discovered in some dead sea scroll, I would say it's possible the Romans got it right.

[Condottiere 40K]

Virginal white.

Proof of his semi divine origin, and the state of his mother's maidenhood.

[sumskilz]

Well not necessarily. His mother maybe, but we have no information on God's nationality or appearance. He could very well look like a Norse viking, or a Australian aborigine. So if Jesus took after his father, he could look very different to a middle eastern Jew. That way and until a photograph of Jesus is discovered in some dead sea scroll, I would say it's possible the Romans got it right.

In Luke 4:30, he looked similar enough to the people around him that he able to blend into the crowd. Unless that was a widely unrecognized miracle.

So anyway, the Samaritans are the people alive today who are genetically most similar to the Jews of the First Century (or Iron Age for that matter), and this is what they look like:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Alastor]

In Luke 4:30, he looked similar enough to the people around him that he able to blend into the crowd. Unless that was a widely unrecognized miracle.

It could be. Or the crowd was a mixed one. Or it was all about inconspicuous clothing. Or maybe it never happened.

[Roma_Victrix]

Well not necessarily. His mother maybe, but we have no information on God's nationality or appearance. He could very well look like a Norse viking, or a Australian aborigine. So if Jesus took after his father, he could look very different to a middle eastern Jew. That way and until a photograph of Jesus is discovered in some dead sea scroll, I would say it's possible the Romans got it right.

Or perhaps instead of receiving God's DNA, he received a double dose of his mother Mary's DNA to form all 23 chromosomes.

In Luke 4:30, he looked similar enough to the people around him that he able to blend into the crowd. Unless that was a widely unrecognized miracle.

So anyway, the Samaritans are the people alive today who are genetically most similar to the Jews of the First Century (or Iron Age for that matter), and this is what they look like:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

As always, Sumskilz delivers.

Yep. They look Levantine enough for my standards. Pale white, olive, and brown complexions abound, with a few gingers sprinkled in.

Aside from physical appearance, skin tone, and facial features, notice how Jesus of the Santa Pudenziana mosaic has long hair, unlike most of the Romans sitting around him (minus one guy to the left). However, Jesus is also clearly wearing a Roman toga like his counterparts seated around him. I'm not an expert on Roman clothing, but it doesn't look like the standard toga praetexta. I could be wrong, but it looks like a gilded, gold-glittered version of a toga laena, the type worn by the pontifices (i.e. priesthood) of Rome since Republican times. However, I've seen Roman emperors dressed as the Pontifex Maximus with a rather different type of hooded toga.

Big picture, though, Jesus has been Romanized and would fit right in at a modern US college's toga party. Just needs a red plastic cup with beer in it.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

The Apse Mosaic of the Santa Pudenziana doesn't look entirely original. I suspect that's a 13th or 14th century reconstruction. I'd have to check Krautheimer's Corpus Basilicarum Christianarum Romae to be sure though.

It should be noted that's an Imperial funded Mosaic. The first Church-sponsored mosaic is the Basilica di Santa Maria Maggiore, all others before and for some time afterwards are mostly or partially funded by typically the Imperial Family.

[Cyclops]

In Luke 4:30, he looked similar enough to the people around him that he able to blend into the crowd. Unless that was a widely unrecognized miracle.

The passage does not indicate he escaped by blending into the crowd, although it certainly allows it. There are a couple of other possibilities here.

Probably going to hell for this

A history of violence

Yeah definitely going to hell now

All in all there's no way to tell how Jesus looked. Samaritan is a good enough guess.

As for other representations, if we can have Max von Sydow playing Christ then I don't have a problem with Inuit or Khoi/San Jesus.

[Dick Cheney.]

Jesus was white...

Except..

1) He liked gospel.
2) He called everybody "brother."
and
3) He couldn't get a fair trial.

[sumskilz]

The passage does not indicate he escaped by blending into the crowd, although it certainly allows it.

I may have over-interpreted based on personal experience. Last girl I dated for any period of time was mixed Sephardi/Ashkenazi, 24 years old but the height and weight of a typical 10-year-old in the US. If she wandered off in a crowd anywhere in Israel, I pretty much had to give up on any chance of finding her. Just had to stay in one place till she came back. I think if I dated a blonde girl, I wouldn't have ever had that problem. She'd be like a landmark for giving people directions... "Okay, so you see where that blonde girl is standing, just walk past her and it's the first door on the right".

[Roma_Victrix]

The Apse Mosaic of the Santa Pudenziana doesn't look entirely original. I suspect that's a 13th or 14th century reconstruction. I'd have to check Krautheimer's Corpus Basilicarum Christianarum Romae to be sure though.

Not sure what hat you pulled this one out of, but you'll be happy to learn then that it is legitimately from the early 5th century and NOT a later reconstruction. It was restored/repaired in the 16th century, but there wasn't a significant change to it as far as I know. It's actually quite typical of Roman mosaics of the period.

Source: Johannes G. Deckers (2007), "Constantine the Great and Early Christian Art", in Jeffrey Spier; Mary Charles-Murray, Picturing the Bible: the Earliest Christian Art, Yale University Press (in association with the Kimbell Art Museum), pp 96-97.

After explaining some earlier mosaic depictions of Christ (such as the ones featured below in my post), Deckers says the following about Santa Pudenziana:

"...Subsequent depictions of the all-powerful Christ in the apses and cupolas of Christian churches retain the iconographic elements of emperors of late antiquity. In the oldest surviving apse mosaic from a church, Santa Pudenziana in Rome (c. 400), we again find the jewel-encrusted golden throne, the golden robes, and the nimbus (fig. 71). To Constantine and his successors, the omnipotent god that granted them victory and with it dominion on earth was embodied in Christ, so it was necessary that he be portrayed with all the earthly symbols of such power. Christ had to be of imperial stature."

It should be noted that's an Imperial funded Mosaic. The first Church-sponsored mosaic is the Basilica di Santa Maria Maggiore, all others before and for some time afterwards are mostly or partially funded by typically the Imperial Family.

That's a very good point. Now that you mention it, one of the earliest Roman mosaics of Jesus Christ the Lawgiver (Traditio Legis) belongs to the apse of a catacomb, a mausoleum for Constantine I's daughter Constantina (or even Helena, the wife of Emperor Julian). Jesus is depicted as a long-haired blonde dude without a beard.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...D_adjusted.JPG


Contrast that with another contemporary 4th-century Paleochristian Imperial Roman mosaic from the Basilica of San Lorenzo, Milan, where Jesus doesn't have the same hair color but still bears the typical toga laena of a Roman priest (pontifex):
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...8-May-2007.jpg

Except..

1) He liked gospel.
2) He called everybody "brother."
and
3) He couldn't get a fair trial.

Insert drum roll!

All in all there's no way to tell how Jesus looked. Samaritan is a good enough guess.

It's certainly the most logical guess without any sort of firm evidence. In either case, this thread is more about how the Romans chose to depict him, than offering speculation on how he actually looked.

[Mayer]

I do like the romanized version of the apostles with togas and victory laurels, because reasons.

[conon394]

Time for some classic Greek pre-socratic philosophy.

“The Ethiops say that their gods are flat-nosed and black,
While the Thracians say that theirs have blue eyes and red hair.
Yet if cattle or horses or lions had hands and could draw,
And could sculpt like men, then the horses would draw their gods
Like horses, and cattle like cattle; and each they would shape
Bodies of gods in the likeness, each kind, of their own.”

(Xenophanes).

Personally as an Agnostic I can see two vectors to this topic. Either something statistical based on evidence thing - but the evidence is incomplete and we can't do a survey of people who saw the Jesus. So well always open to criticism and it is reasonable clear most of them would not have the white or not white thing in mind. Or really if you believe - than he is the son of god and returned death - I rather suppose he can look anyway you need to see him and so likely does not care and the depictions are what believers saw or needed to see.

[Roma_Victrix]

I do like the romanized version of the apostles with togas and victory laurels, because reasons.

I'll just quote Mel Brooks here, from History of the World: Part 1, where he plays Louis XVI of France: "it's good to be the king."

It's also a fine thing to wear your finest, and to flaunt it.

It's also a status thing that's supposed to demonstrate the religious authority of Christ, with all the trappings of a Pontifex Maximus of Rome, while being even more glorious with his golden garbs and golden throne fit for a king. In this case, he's the "King of Kings, and Lord of Lords" who shall "reign forever and ever" on Heaven and Earth. That's what that one Christmas-time Hallelujah song says, at least.

Time for some classic Greek pre-socratic philosophy.

“The Ethiops say that their gods are flat-nosed and black,
While the Thracians say that theirs have blue eyes and red hair.
Yet if cattle or horses or lions had hands and could draw,
And could sculpt like men, then the horses would draw their gods
Like horses, and cattle like cattle; and each they would shape
Bodies of gods in the likeness, each kind, of their own.”

(Xenophanes).

That's a fantastic quote by Xenophanes. I was only vaguely familiar with him and really only in connection to the much later philosophy of Spinoza and the pantheists. I now have new respect and admiration for Xenophanes.

Personally as an Agnostic I can see two vectors to this topic. Either something statistical based on evidence thing - but the evidence is incomplete and we can't do a survey of people who saw the Jesus. So well always open to criticism and it is reasonable clear most of them would not have the white or not white thing in mind. Or really if you believe - than he is the son of god and returned death - I rather suppose he can look anyway you need to see him and so likely does not care and the depictions are what believers saw or needed to see.

Yep, he can certainly be molded to fit in with whatever ethnic group or culture is associating with him at the time. In the case of this thread, the Romans made him into the ideal image of a Roman, at the apex of their society. Gone, however, was the emphasis on old, austere Republican virtues and selfless, patriotic heroes such as Cincinnatus. To be fair, Romans still fostered the teachings of Greco-Roman philosophy such as Stoicism long after the adoption of Christianity, but they became increasingly hostile towards contemporary pagans like Julian the Apostate and the female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria. The Olympic Games were disbanded and condemned as a pagan practice by Theodosius I in 393 AD, and in 529 AD Justinian I finally closed down the Neoplatonic Academy of Athens, forcing its adherents to flee to other parts of the empire as well as to the Persian Sasanian Empire (in a region where Neoplatonic ideas would later influence the intellectual flourishing of philosophy, arts, and sciences at medieval Islamic Baghdad under the Abbasid caliphate, as well as influence Byzantine thought during the Macedonian Renaissance).

In summary, the Romans who embraced Christianity infused it with old, recognizable symbols and trappings of Roman Republican-era and early Imperial-era religious authority, while gradually rejecting their pagan past. Christ then assumed the role as the ultimate and pure Roman, which made it convenient to continue picking on the Jews. I guess the extreme logical conclusion and culmination of this idea was the somewhat comical attempt by scholars of Nazi Germany who were drafted by the regime to try and divorce Jesus' Jewish roots and identity and to prove he was a true-blooded Aryan. You can see how well that idea was embraced by Himmler, whose SS abandoned Christianity altogether in favor of a pseudo occultist interpretation of old Germanic paganism.

[Condottiere 40K]

At some point, he'd fuse with Santa Claus.

[Edelward]

Well not necessarily. His mother maybe, but we have no information on God's nationality or appearance. He could very well look like a Norse viking, or a Australian aborigine. So if Jesus took after his father, he could look very different to a middle eastern Jew. That way and until a photograph of Jesus is discovered in some dead sea scroll, I would say it's possible the Romans got it right.

But say if Jehovah has Jewish look tight curled hairs dark brown to black etc . Some ancient mystics had revelations and trances ,when soul visted his abode. The Uncle Cold image obviously wrong and is borrowing from Germanic mythology or smth.

[neoptolemos]

[Roma_Victrix]

But say if Jehovah has Jewish look tight curled hairs dark brown to black etc . Some ancient mystics had revelations and trances ,when soul visted his abode. The Uncle Cold image obviously wrong and is borrowing from Germanic mythology or smth.

Uncle Cold? What? Who is that?

Nice. See? I love how there are so many various looks for Jesus before the iconic Byzantine artworks pretty much set the standard for his appearance, at least in terms of his face, hair, and beard. He had everything from blond hair to light brunet or black hair, beard or no beard, and his facial features vary greatly. Once again, however, we see Jesus dressed as a priest of Rome, a pontifex in a toga. Where's this mosaic from exactly, though? I can see he's holding a scroll with Greek alphabetic text on it, not Latin, so most likely not Rome itself. Somewhere in Greece? Anatolia? The Levant? Egypt?

[chriscase]

Please remember to stay on topic.

[conon394]

edit hopefully not seen rant -But I think the Burning Bush point is valid in this thread.