Foreign "Settler Colony"

[Kilo11]

I think I know the answer to this already, but wanted to double-check before I demolish a bunch of buildings across my empire. When I take a new settlement which has a "Settler Colony" from some other faction, there is no reason to leave that colony in place, right? I mean, it says it is giving an unrest penalty, (5-10%, depending on size, if I remember that correctly) and I believe it will never be treated as equivalent to my own settler colony. Intuitively, it would be in every way better to scrape away settler colonies from newly acquired territories, but I just want to make sure that that is indeed reflected in the mechanics, before I go ahead and break down so many buildings. Thanks in advance.

[Hellenikon]

If the building doesn't provide anything to your faction (recruitment, settlement bonuses, income), and converts to a culture that you don't have a use for (as Rome i think you need a percentage of certain cultures to recruit some units), then go ahead and destroy it.

[QuintusSertorius]

If you're a Hellenistic faction (or Pontos), there's no point demolishing Hellenistic Colonies. You might have to make a decision about Local Colonies - they will provide something you can use, but you might prefer to Hellenise. Boii, Arevaci or Carthaginian colonies are useless to you.

If you're Carthage, Taksashila or any of the settling-nomadic factions (Numidia, Saka, Sauromatae, Pahlava), Hellenistic Colonies are useless to you, and will prevent you building Local Colonies later on. Boii or Arevaci colonies are similarly useless. Pre-existing Local Colonies may be worth leaving in place - you can use them and build them later.

For everyone else, destroy every colony you find, you can't use it and it may prevent you building something you can use.

[Kilo11]

For everyone else, destroy every colony you find, you can't use it and it may prevent you building something you can use.

Thanks for the info Quints, especially that last bit. Right now I'm carrying the eagle, as I always do for a first run on a new mod, but next I'd like to take the Pritanoi or one of the Gallic factions out for a spin, so the "for everyone else" tip is especially useful! Well, it looks like some unfortunate Carthaginian settlers are going to be displaced. I guess I'll need to build some housing projects for them somewhere.

Pre-existing Local Colonies may be worth leaving in place - you can use them and build them later.

I thought pre-existing local colonies were not destructible? I think there is something like "Hellenistic colony" in Tarentum, which I cannot demolish, though I could be mistaken about that. I'll get on and have a look-see, and get back to you with my findings.

[QuintusSertorius]

Thanks for the info Quints, especially that last bit. Right now I'm carrying the eagle, as I always do for a first run on a new mod, but next I'd like to take the Pritanoi or one of the Gallic factions out for a spin, so the "for everyone else" tip is especially useful! Well, it looks like some unfortunate Carthaginian settlers are going to be displaced. I guess I'll need to build some housing projects for them somewhere.

I thought pre-existing local colonies were not destructible? I think there is something like "Hellenistic colony" in Tarentum, which I cannot demolish, though I could be mistaken about that. I'll get on and have a look-see, and get back to you with my findings.

No, all colonies are destructible, it's only the Greek Poleis (which isn't a colony of military settlers, but a civic institution) that isn't. There's one in Taras, you can't do anything about it.

[Kilo11]

No, all colonies are destructible, it's only the Greek Poleis (which isn't a colony of military settlers, but a civic institution) that isn't. There's one in Taras, you can't do anything about it.

Yeah, you're right. I was just flipping through my settlements, and it looks like a lot of places have a Greek polis of one size or another, which I can indeed do nothing about. Oh well.

[Kilo11]

Yeah, I've been thinking about whether it would make sense to have a general script in place that automatically demolishes the faction specific buildings of another faction when you take the settlement, similar to how the government *building* is eliminated. At least those things that give nothing to your own faction (i.c. settler colonies).

On the one hand, it would be kind of handy for that to just be done, so that you don't have to double check what's there that you don't need/might be hurting the settlement (in terms of unrest penalties), and it would also make it so you don't get the cash bonus from demolishing someone else's factional building, which for some reason seems appropriate to me. On the other hand, it would be really annoying for a settlement that gets taken to automatically be dropped to square one in terms of colonies, and there is no reason why a colony would by default be demolished by its conquerors. I mean, I guess there would be no new colonists coming in from Carthage/Greece/wherever, but the ones there would still be there in their homes.

Any thoughts on that, either in terms of gameplay mechanics or historicity?

[QuintusSertorius]

Aside from governments, there aren't many other faction-specific buildings. Also note the destroy_building command only works on a factional basis - ie it destroys every instance of that building in any settlement owned by that faction.

[paulhewsoon1]

I have this question with greek colonies. In a far away places (India, Nubia, Arabia, Central Asia), how long do they take to appear? Mine in Palmyra took AGES to appear and in the meantime I could recruit ANY local troop, except if I transformed the city into a client kingdom (but I can't put a family member or a general for penalty bonus and I don't want to get a lot of vassal kings around). I'm not really interested in greek colonies, troops in those places, but for local troops in Satrapies, Hyparchies or Royal Adm. So what could I do?

[QuintusSertorius]

I have this question with greek colonies. In a far away places (India, Nubia, Arabia, Central Asia), how long do they take to appear? Mine in Palmyra took AGES to appear and in the meantime I could recruit ANY local troop, except if I transformed the city into a client kingdom (but I can't put a family member or a general for penalty bonus and I don't want to get a lot of vassal kings around). I'm not really interested in greek colonies, troops in those places, but for local troops in Satrapies, Hyparchies or Royal Adm. So what could I do?

There is no time delay or anything of the sort. If there are no units in the browser in a region, it's because there will never be any units there. For the most part you can't build a helcol in a region which gives no recruitment, but there are places we couldn't eliminate.

[paulhewsoon1]

There is no time delay or anything of the sort. If there are no units in the browser in a region, it's because there will never be any units there. For the most part you can't build a helcol in a region which gives no recruitment, but there are places we couldn't eliminate.

I beg to differ. In the case of Nubia e.g. as a Allied Kingdom i got forest elephants, arab cavalry and aethopian lancer, etc. But as soon as i turned it into a military conquest (change of admin.) I couldn't get none, only spies and boats. I suppose you can "advance" and administration cause military conquest is the most basic of the "non allied" ones, but in the building roster, the next one is hellenic admin. which I suppose means you will eventually need a hellenic colony. As hellenic as my faction can be I'm not interested in puttin colonies in distant places (Nubia, India, Arabia, etc.) but to rule them as satrapies or native Admin. However, apparently the game makes me choose between the citites to stay as allied kingdoms or wait a thousand years for a colony to develop, but in the meantime with no troop recruitment.

[Kilo11]

If there are no units in the browser in a region, it's because there will never be any units there.

That's rough. So there are some places where you will always have to import troops, even just for the basic garrison of levy-type units? Hopefully those aren't also places that are prone to unrest and rebellion, or that'll be a recipe for a royal pain in the .

[QuintusSertorius]

I beg to differ. In the case of Nubia e.g. as a Allied Kingdom i got forest elephants, arab cavalry and aethopian lancer, etc. But as soon as i turned it into a military conquest (change of admin.) I couldn't get none, only spies and boats. I suppose you can "advance" and administration cause military conquest is the most basic of the "non allied" ones, but in the building roster, the next one is hellenic admin. which I suppose means you will eventually need a hellenic colony. As hellenic as my faction can be I'm not interested in puttin colonies in distant places (Nubia, India, Arabia, etc.) but to rule them as satrapies or native Admin. However, apparently the game makes me choose between the citites to stay as allied kingdoms or wait a thousand years for a colony to develop, but in the meantime with no troop recruitment.

You misunderstood me. I said in the helcol, ie the Hellenistic Colonies. There are places which offer no units - Britain, Germania, the Sahara, deepest Arabia, the Central Asia steppe. Greeks and Makedonians don't want to go there and you can't make them.

Colonies are nothing to do with whatever locals are on offer from your governments. Furthermore, your governments have intended "zones" outside of which again they offer no units. As the Seleukids you will get no locals in Nubia with any factional government, Allied Governments are your only option.

You're missing the point. If you can't put a colony there (and that's what is signified by offering no recruitment) then you also can't put your higher tier governments there either. That's the intent. This isn't a freeform alt-history mod where you can take Makedonia to Britain and raise phalanxes there. None of the conditions which made the raising of phalanxes possible exist.

[myarta]

I have this question with greek colonies. In a far away places (India, Nubia, Arabia, Central Asia), how long do they take to appear? Mine in Palmyra took AGES to appear and in the meantime I could recruit ANY local troop, except if I transformed the city into a client kingdom (but I can't put a family member or a general for penalty bonus and I don't want to get a lot of vassal kings around). I'm not really interested in greek colonies, troops in those places, but for local troops in Satrapies, Hyparchies or Royal Adm. So what could I do?

Who were you playing as? What was the name of the building you are referring to that 'appears'? I'm not sure we're all on the same page here.

If you mean the Minor Hellenic Polis, that requires you to convert to 29% culture first, which takes time. If you mean the Hellenic Colonies (Settler Frontier Town etc), the first tier requires certain building prereqs but also offers conversion up to 30% culture, which permits you to plant down your minor polis.
What QS said is true, that there are some regions where you do not have good factional government / recruitment choices, and the idea there is that all Hellenic/Hellenistic civilizations are different in more than just their color. There may be some far away places where all you can do is client kingdoms. If you want to play as Hellenes furthest east, then be Baktria, who represent an Indo-Hellenic fusion and have good native choices out there.

[paulhewsoon1]

You misunderstood me. I said in the helcol, ie the Hellenistic Colonies. There are places which offer no units - Britain, Germania, the Sahara, deepest Arabia, the Central Asia steppe. Greeks and Makedonians don't want to go there and you can't make them.

Colonies are nothing to do with whatever locals are on offer from your governments. Furthermore, your governments have intended "zones" outside of which again they offer no units. As the Seleukids you will get no locals in Nubia with any factional government, Allied Governments are your only option.

You're missing the point. If you can't put a colony there (and that's what is signified by offering no recruitment) then you also can't put your higher tier governments there either. That's the intent. This isn't a freeform alt-history mod where you can take Makedonia to Britain and raise phalanxes there. None of the conditions which made the raising of phalanxes possible exist.

Sorry if u didnt understand me or i didnt explain well. Im not looking to recruit hypaspistai in sweden Or hetairoi cavalry in the tarim basim. What I find troubling is that i cant even recruit local troops in those places unless I put an allied kingdom. Lets say i land in britain and I conquer Londinium, could I recruit some levy Celtic spearman or some britons skirmishers in the city? And i mean it as a non allied admin. be it a supervised native, royal, hyparchi or satrapy administration.

[paulhewsoon1]

Who were you playing as? What was the name of the building you are referring to that 'appears'? I'm not sure we're all on the same page here.

If you mean the Minor Hellenic Polis, that requires you to convert to 29% culture first, which takes time. If you mean the Hellenic Colonies (Settler Frontier Town etc), the first tier requires certain building prereqs but also offers conversion up to 30% culture, which permits you to plant down your minor polis.
What QS said is true, that there are some regions where you do not have good factional government / recruitment choices, and the idea there is that all Hellenic/Hellenistic civilizations are different in more than just their color. There may be some far away places where all you can do is client kingdoms. If you want to play as Hellenes furthest east, then be Baktria, who represent an Indo-Hellenic fusion and have good native choices out there.

I'm playing as seleukids, i was talking about how Palmyra got its settlers frontier town after many years of not being able to recruit a single soldier there, not even levies. Of course i could have got soldiers if I transformed it into a allied kingdom (which I briefly did) but allied kingdoms are mostly unruly and with unrest penalty if i put anybody except a vassal king. I had to wait years to get that building (the settlers barracks) in Palmyra. But I dont wanna wait that time in other far away places. Thats why i was askin if it was possible to recruit BASIC LOCAL troops in places like Nubia, india, Arabia etc. without having to install allied kingdoms in the area.

[QuintusSertorius]

Sorry if u didnt understand me or i didnt explain well. Im not looking to recruit hypaspistai in sweden Or hetairoi cavalry in the tarim basim. What I find troubling is that i cant even recruit local troops in those places unless I put an allied kingdom. Lets say i land in britain and I conquer Londinium, could I recruit some levy Celtic spearman or some britons skirmishers in the city? And i mean it as a non allied admin. be it a supervised native, royal, hyparchi or satrapy administration.

I'm playing as seleukids, i was talking about how Palmyra got its settlers frontier town after many years of not being able to recruit a single soldier there, not even levies. Of course i could have got soldiers if I transformed it into a allied kingdom (which I briefly did) but allied kingdoms are mostly unruly and with unrest penalty if i put anybody except a vassal king. I had to wait years to get that building (the settlers barracks) in Palmyra. But I dont wanna wait that time in other far away places. Thats why i was askin if it was possible to recruit BASIC LOCAL troops in places like Nubia, india, Arabia etc. without having to install allied kingdoms in the area.

No, that's the whole point. You are outside the geographical sphere of influence of that faction, and Allied Governments are your only resort. If you want factional governments drawing local levies in India, you play Baktria. It's part of creating distinction between the Hellenistic factions besides their colour on the stratmap. Same as if you want locals in Italy, you play Epeiros. Those factions have pre-existing ties to those regions which facilitate the engagement of locals.

That's the trade-off you make in choosing one faction over another. No faction can go everywhere and use their factional governments, otherwise what would be the point in making Allied Governments at all? Again, this is not and will never be freeform alt-history where any faction can go anywhere without consequence. So if you land in Britain, you'll get nothing without an Allied Government.

[paulhewsoon1]

No, that's the whole point.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You are outside the geographical sphere of influence of that faction, and Allied Governments are your only resort.

Do you have a map of those sphere of influences?

If you want factional governments drawing local levies in India, you play Baktria. It's part of creating distinction between the Hellenistic factions besides their colour on the stratmap. Same as if you want locals in Italy, you play Epeiros. Those factions have pre-existing ties to those regions which facilitate the engagement of locals.

That's the trade-off you make in choosing one faction over another. No faction can go everywhere and use their factional governments, otherwise what would be the point in making Allied Governments at all? Again, this is not and will never be freeform alt-history where any faction can go anywhere without consequence. So if you land in Britain, you'll get nothing without an Allied Government.

Well, quite it makes sense if u go that far (as I intend to), but it's kind of sad not being able to expand hellen. culture as far as possible. By the way, if I stay long time with a client kingdom, the city suffer some change in its culture, or stay as was when I captured it?

[QuintusSertorius]

No one has drawn a map, it's coded using hidden_resources, both to constrain availability of governments and build region-specific recruitment, which includes deliberately not having recruitment in particular places. These are the recruitment headings from Seleukid factional governments:

;;; CAUCASUS
;;; EASTERN
;;; ASAAK/HEKATOMPYLOS
;;; CHARACENE
;;; IOUDAIA
;;; BAKTRIA
;;; ANATOLIAN
;;; GALATIA
;;; EGYPT

Those are the regions they get local levies from their governments.

You can put a polis (but not a colony) in Britain, but it will give you a tiny pool of Greeks. This is the "marginal places" pool in the polis_one:

;;; SAKA/INDIA/DAHA/GERMANIA/BALTIC/NUMIDIA/DACIA/LUSITANIA/BRITAIN/CELTIBERIA/ETHIOPIA 4 * 0.03
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry hoplitai haploi"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { cul_1, cul_3, f_pontos, } and not hidden_resource eastern and not hidden_resource greek1 and not hidden_resource greek2 and not hidden_resource pontic and hidden_resource baltic or hidden_resource belgic or hidden_resource briton or hidden_resource celtiberia or hidden_resource daha or hidden_resource ethiopia or hidden_resource dacia or hidden_resource germania or hidden_resource indo or hidden_resource lusitan or hidden_resource saka
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry akontistai"  1  0.06  2  0  requires factions { cul_1, cul_3, f_pontos, } and not event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1 and not hidden_resource eastern and not hidden_resource greek1 and not hidden_resource greek2 and not hidden_resource pontic and hidden_resource baltic or hidden_resource belgic or hidden_resource briton or hidden_resource celtiberia or hidden_resource daha or hidden_resource ethiopia or hidden_resource dacia or hidden_resource germania or hidden_resource indo or hidden_resource lusitan or hidden_resource saka
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry akontistai"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { cul_1, cul_3, f_pontos, } and event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1 and not hidden_resource eastern and not hidden_resource greek1 and not hidden_resource greek2 and not hidden_resource pontic and hidden_resource baltic or hidden_resource belgic or hidden_resource briton or hidden_resource celtiberia or hidden_resource daha or hidden_resource ethiopia or hidden_resource dacia or hidden_resource germania or hidden_resource indo or hidden_resource lusitan or hidden_resource saka
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry toxotai"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { cul_1, cul_3, f_pontos, } and not hidden_resource hellen1 and not hidden_resource eastern and not hidden_resource greek1 and not hidden_resource greek2 and not hidden_resource pontic and hidden_resource baltic or hidden_resource belgic or hidden_resource briton or hidden_resource celtiberia or hidden_resource daha or hidden_resource ethiopia or hidden_resource dacia or hidden_resource germania or hidden_resource indo or hidden_resource lusitan or hidden_resource saka

Allied Governments convert to 15% or 25% "Independent" culture. Otherwise they will convert over time towards your culture as well.