Stormfront gloat thread

[Love Mountain]

There is a civil process to these things. It applies to everyone.

[JP226]

People do walk around in fascist gear, but it didn't turn out right in Charlottesville, hence the backlash. Reasonable point regarding such sites being useful to the police, intelligence services and indeed anti-fascists. Screenies were a big feature of my old EDL threads.


Caelifer_1991, you are a bit harsh, one of our own forum members glorified the Charlottesville murder.

You keep saying Charlottesville and from the context I think you have really no idea what you are talking about or what it was. It's not your fault you are in a completely different country that get a spattering of headlines from over here delivered by folks that don't have any better idea about the goings on of the US than you do. We have protests like this, not frequently per se, but more than once or twice a year and for the last several DECADES. A large protest like this may be a few hundred, if that. It's a bunch of red necks that get their permit, march through the street and go home nothing ever happens, and nobody gives a crap here because they are just a bunch of losers larping. Now enter this recent "counter protesting" phenomenon (which is anti american, as it's an act of denying free speech), that has been setting fire to buildings on college campuses, that's rioting and causing problems and has had to been broken up by the cops. They show up to this particular rally, a rally with real extremists on the opposite side, and choose to attack those real extremists and you can easily see what happened. This subset of the right isn't growing, that's all a farce. They, the nazis and KKK are being used as a pawn to gain political traction for whatever this nutty antifa movement is, which really is a recent manifestation of the BS occupy wallstreet garbage, here in this country.

[ioannis76]

I'm glad you agree with me, and thank you for your suggestion. As it turns out, I'm already on that thread, page 1.

Ok, I hadn't noticed it. But I thought that the solution to oppression is not more oppression. Or is there a difference, ie if the oppressor is a nazi/white supremacist etc, then we MUST oppress him, but if the oppressor is a muslim then we must not? What gives?

[JP226]

Ok, I hadn't noticed it. But I thought that the solution to oppression is not more oppression. Or is there a difference, ie if the oppressor is a nazi/white supremacist etc, then we MUST oppress him, but if the oppressor is a muslim then we must not? What gives?

What gives? Inconsistency, irrationality and ignorance.

[mongrel]

You keep saying Charlottesville and from the context I think you have really no idea what you are talking about or what it was. It's not your fault you are in a completely different country that get a spattering of headlines from over here delivered by folks that don't have any better idea about the goings on of the US than you do. We have protests like this, not frequently per se, but more than once or twice a year and for the last several DECADES. A large protest like this may be a few hundred, if that. It's a bunch of red necks that get their permit, march through the street and go home nothing ever happens, and nobody gives a crap here because they are just a bunch of losers larping. Now enter this recent "counter protesting" phenomenon (which is anti american, as it's an act of denying free speech), that has been setting fire to buildings on college campuses, that's rioting and causing problems and has had to been broken up by the cops. They show up to this particular rally, a rally with real extremists on the opposite side, and choose to attack those real extremists and you can easily see what happened. This subset of the right isn't growing, that's all a farce. They, the nazis and KKK are being used as a pawn to gain political traction for whatever this nutty antifa movement is, which really is a recent manifestation of the BS occupy wallstreet garbage, here in this country.

Antifa aren't shutting down Nazi communication channels , web hosting businesses are and it is directly due to current political issues.And if the far right had no influence in US politics, who the hell have been hanging around the White House over the last 9 months?

I suppose from you point of view Antifa is unAmerican, after all it was the KKK or similar who traditionally used to go round setting fire to buildings ,beating people up and a good deal worse, and I dare say at times the cops joined in. You hardly convincing me that the fascist loss is our loss too. If antifa were that irritating I'm sure web hosts can mete out similar treatment.

Ok, I hadn't noticed it. But I thought that the solution to oppression is not more oppression. Or is there a difference, ie if the oppressor is a nazi/white supremacist etc, then we MUST oppress him, but if the oppressor is a muslim then we must not? What gives?

Who mentioned Muslims? Proud to live in a country were extremists of all kinds get locked up. Here's one example of some idiot put in his place by our fine judiciary.

[Caelifer_1991]

Ok, I hadn't noticed it. But I thought that the solution to oppression is not more oppression. Or is there a difference, ie if the oppressor is a nazi/white supremacist etc, then we MUST oppress him, but if the oppressor is a muslim then we must not? What gives?

Don't talk as if my position is in anyway hypocritical, my position is identical with regards White Supremacists, Black Supremacists, Islamists, Stalinists, and everyone else who opposes liberty and dignity amongst the general population, i.e.: do to them as they would do unto others. No these same measures, following the same policy, do not extend to the average: white person, black person, muslim, communist, etc; only to those parts that would deliberately oppress others; against them, oppression is entirely justified so long as it does not extend to whichever larger group they profess to represent, but they are the exception, not the rule.

What gives? Inconsistency, irrationality and ignorance.

Your tendency to jump to conclusions only makes you seem irrational and ignorant, rather than me. You might want to learn some introspection.

[Ludicus]

I believe you folks are socially inferior in that respect.

"Socially inferior" ?
In this respect, among other aspects,we are not inferior. Here, we firmly believe that hate speech is not free speech. Hate Speech - Council of Europe
And let's not start talking about violence, death penalty, social progress - including access to basic knowledge (US elected Trump! ) health, personal safety, universal healthcare, cost of college education, etc...
In some fundamental aspects,US isn't a shining example.
--

The fact you think Trump is far right...

Come on, honestly speaking, Trump is a racist, xenophobic idiot.Simply put, Trump is America's shame.
---
Edit,
Back to the subject,Stormfront: 'murder capital of internet'

It is clear that Stormfront’s reason for existing is to advance hateful racist ideologies in undeniable persistent violation of the acceptable use policy of Web.com.

Bingo.

[Roma_Victrix]

Idiotic way to go about it. These people should be allowed to gather, make plans, and so on. The sites and subreddits should be monitored and data mined to keep track of dangerous and derganged individuals. Additionally, the data can be used to to predict dangerous terrorism and pre-emptively stopped. Even better, it can spawn material to prosecute people with. Ideally, there should be a cyber unit infiltrating garbage like this.

I've said this before I'll say it again. Let the scum gather, talk, and wear Swastikas. It makes them easier to find.

Couldn't have said it better.

But they ARE allowed to. Now if it was the ISP banning people from going to the site, that would be a different story altogether because that would violate net neutrality (which I am a big proponent of). But the host should be free to terminate the relationship if he feels the site is violating the terms of their agreement or if it is creating a negative image for the business.

More likely than not this is just a further snowball effect from the Charlottesville incident. Same thing happened with that other website that, as of last I heard, has yet to find a new host.

If hosts don't want to offer them space, oh well. Perhaps geocities is still on the table?

A voice of sanity is always welcome.

Seriously, this has everything to do with a private entity not wanting bad publicity and to hurt its bottom line. It has nothing to do with government censorship, least of all the guarantees of the First Amendment. We have a freaking Nazi Party here in the United States, and you know what: who cares? Let them be a small and laughable, marginalized minority in the landscape of American politics.

Stormfront, as insidious and despicable as it is, is a huge site with a lot of members. I heavily doubt every one of them is a criminal. And if they are criminals, each and every one must be assessed as individuals with free will, tried in a court of law, not by a mob with pitchforks. We don't need a nanny state to tell them what's right and wrong. We just need law enforcement to detain them or kill them if they get violent and try to act out their racial purification fantasies.

[Love Mountain]

Trump is categorized as a Far-Right, or "Alt-Right" politician. His rhetoric is anti-immigrant, anti-globalist, and anti-elitist. The only way to deny that Trump is far-right, is to claim that he doesn't actually understand the things he's saying.

[Frostwulf]

I suppose from you point of view Antifa is unAmerican, after all it was the KKK or similar who traditionally used to go round setting fire to buildings ,beating people up and a good deal worse, and I dare say at times the cops joined in. You hardly convincing me that the fascist loss is our loss too. If antifa were that irritating I'm sure web hosts can mete out similar treatment.

Antifa seeks to shut out those that they disagree with, hence against freedom of speech. Kind of funny coming from a group that claims to be anti-fascists yet use violence/heckling etc. to eliminate freedom of speech, so yes they are very much unAmerican just like the KKK or similar groups. A brief look online shows you how out of control, violent and haters of free speech they are. I love how they say they wear masks to hide from the neo-nazi, kkk types, what a farce. They hide because of the law not because of the minuscule amount of neo-nazi/kkk types.

Fascism /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism,^[1][2] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and control of industry and commerce,^[3] that came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

Forcible suppression of opposition, they are hypocrites. If you don't believe the same way they do, you will be denied free speech if they can stop you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOkxG4oonys
From wikipedia:
The question is, would you be in favor of the same thing happening to Antifa as it did to stormfront?

[JP226]

Trump is categorized as a Far-Right, or "Alt-Right" politician. His rhetoric is anti-immigrant, anti-globalist, and anti-elitist. The only way to deny that Trump is far-right, is to claim that he doesn't actually understand the things he's saying.

According to wiki the definiton of far-right is:

"Far-right politics includes but is not limited to aspects of authoritarianism, anti-communism, and nativism.[9] Claims that superior people should have greater rights than inferior people are sometimes associated with the far right.[10] The far right has historically favored an elitist society based on its belief in the legitimacy of the rule of a supposed superior minority over the inferior masses."[/I]

I missed the part where Trump is denying rights to minorities and favoring elitists... The closest to the right he is is along the lines of nativism, but I don't see where that is a negative, especially in the face of consolidating wealth and globalization leaving in it's wake a drug epidemic and dying industries.

[Alastor]

People keep saying it's not a violation of free speech. It's a business they have the right to silence (not host in this case) those they don't like. Etc, etc. That is a superficial argument at best. The internet is hardly as free and open as we like to think it is, the majority of its traffic is controlled by a small bunch of gigantic mega-corporations. How can you have an internet presence, when the likes of Facebook, or Google shut their digital doors to you? How can you have a real voice? So yes effectively these mega-corporations having political agendas and the right to enforce them, ie being allowed to act as people, means the free speech of those that disagree with them will be violated. De facto, if not de jure. For it not to be so, either those mega-corporations would have to be broken down to many, many smaller, competing and a more pluralistic internet created again. Or simply these services should be considered rights. I doubt either will happen and I admit I would chuckle a bit if the right to facebook is ever voted in, but that's how it goes unfortunately. These mega-corporations have become too big and the influence they exert on people's daily lives too great for them to be allowed to choose who they want to serve and who they want to effectively marginalize. And btw this is no accident, they pursued this result, they wanted to rule the internet, they wanted the influence and the money. Well you know what they say about pies and dogs.

[Love Mountain]

According to wiki the definiton of far-right is:

"Far-right politics includes but is not limited to aspects of authoritarianism, anti-communism, and nativism.[9] Claims that superior people should have greater rights than inferior people are sometimes associated with the far right.[10] The far right has historically favored an elitist society based on its belief in the legitimacy of the rule of a supposed superior minority over the inferior masses."[/I]

I missed the part where Trump is denying rights to minorities and favoring elitists... The closest to the right he is is along the lines of nativism, but I don't see where that is a negative, especially in the face of consolidating wealth and globalization leaving in it's wake a drug epidemic and dying industries.

I'll help you.

Far-right politics includes but is not limited to aspects of authoritarianism, anti-communism, and nativism.

People keep saying it's not a violation of free speech. It's a business they have the right to silence (not host in this case) those they don't like. Etc, etc. That is a superficial argument at best. The internet is hardly as free and open as we like to think it is, the majority of its traffic is controlled by a small bunch of gigantic mega-corporations. How can you have an internet presence, when the likes of Facebook, or Google shut their digital doors to you? How can you have a real voice? So yes effectively these mega-corporations having political agendas and the right to enforce them, ie being allowed to act as people, means the free speech of those that disagree with them will be violated. De facto, if not de jure. For it not to be so, either those mega-corporations would have to be broken down to many, many smaller, competing and a more pluralistic internet created again. Or simply these services should be considered rights. I doubt either will happen and I admit I would chuckle a bit if the right to facebook is ever voted in, but that's how it goes unfortunately. These mega-corporations have become too big and the influence they exert on people's daily lives too great for them to be allowed to choose who they want to serve and who they want to effectively marginalize. And btw this is no accident, they pursued this result, they wanted to rule the internet, they wanted the influence and the money. Well you know what they say about pies and dogs.

They're still a private business. My issue is with the culture, not some overreach of authority. Private businesses can do as they please. Quite frankly, the only reasons anti-discrimination regulations exist, is because history has shown us that sometimes not even economics forces can overcome culture.

[alhoon]

Please remember that the topic of this thread is about stormfront and other far-right media and whether Freedom of Speech should apply to them and how. Not Trump nor Japan and Australia.

[mongrel]

Here is a summary I found of the damage inflicted on the far-right following Charlottevile.



GoDaddy, a web-hosting service, booted the notorious neo-Nazi website, the Daily Stormer, off its platform. The site moved to Google — which promptly ejected it too.

Apple's payment service Apple Pay is cutting off white supremacists, disabling payment support for websites that sell racist and neo-Nazi apparel, BuzzFeed News reported.

Twitter suspended accounts associated with the Daily Stormer.

Facebook, which already has rules in place banning "hate speech" (unlike Twitter), banned accounts (on Facebook and Instagram) of at least one white nationalist who attended the rally. "It's a disgrace that we still need to say that neo-Nazis and white supremacists are wrong — as if this is somehow not obvious," CEO Mark Zuckerberg said.

Discord, a chat platform that has been popular with the racist "alt-right" movement, cracked down on hate groups and shut down an alt-right server.

Spotify moved to remove "hate bands" from its music streaming service, telling Reuters: "Illegal content or material that favors hatred or incites violence against race, religion, sexuality or the like is not tolerated by us."

Cloudflare, a service that protects websites from DDoS cyber-attacks, stopped protecting the Daily Stormer — despite its previous commitments to be totally neutral as to the content it guards.

Domain registrar and hosting service Squarespace has ditched white nationalist customers including Richard Spencer.

Payment service Paypal has pledged to stop supporting hate websites, while fundraising platform GoFundMe is pulling fundraisers for the suspect in the Charlottesville vehicle attack. [He has fundraisers, are you kidding me?]

And of course the pulling of the plug on Stormfront.

A shame someone had to die for the above to happen.

[NorseThing]

Mongrel --- This has nothing to do with any moral right. Business's make a cold calculation on what will be a net increase in short term profitability. If these very same businesses found it more profitable to be for a go fund me account on a KKK legal defense fund, you might lose some of your faith in these reported reactions. I am not saying that the profit motive is necessarily bad, but take care on what you may think are results that you agree with.

[I_Damian]

The catalyst no doubt was that terrorist attack in Charlottesville

Get real. A violent group (Antifa) were allowed to crash a legal, peaceful rally. The fact that the rally was attended by scumbags is irrelevant. They had a permit, they had a right to be there.

The police were ordered to stand down (something we've seen a lot from left-wing mayors since Trump got elected) and violence was allowed to take place between the two sides for a period of time, then someone got angry and did something stupid. That is very different from a terrorist attack.

A terrorist attack would be if he woke up that morning and said "You know what, I'm gonna murder some people with my car at the rally today".

By the way, I'm not fooled by this campaign of censorship that's sweeping the western world right now. The left are going for the low hanging fruit first - statues of Confederate generals who owned slaves, far-right websites like Stormfront. When there's no low hanging fruit left they move up the tree and eventually everybody who is not left-wing gets labelled a Nazi, or a hate group, or a bigot, or a racist, and gets censored.

The hilarious thing is... the monster that is censorship of free speech will come for the left eventually. Once you normalize censorship it doesn't just stop. You're always going to be one censorship away from your utopia. When all the non-left wing websites and Youtube channels have been censored, and Google perfects its search algorithms to show only left-wing results, the next people to get censored are those on the left deemed not left-wing enough.

[Heathen Hammer]

Sounds like violation of net neutrality, especially given how far-left and Islamist content seems to be doing just fine, despite the fact that allegations of incitement of violence in their case are actually true.

[Love Mountain]

By the way, I'm not fooled by this campaign of censorship that's sweeping the western world right now. The left are going for the low hanging fruit first - statues of Confederate generals who owned slaves, far-right websites like Stormfront. When there's no low hanging fruit left they move up the tree and eventually everybody who is not left-wing gets labelled a Nazi, or a hate group, or a bigot, or a racist, and gets censored.

The hilarious thing is... the monster that is censorship of free speech will come for the left eventually. Once you normalize censorship it doesn't just stop. You're always going to be one censorship away from your utopia. When all the non-left wing websites and Youtube channels have been censored, and Google perfects its search algorithms to show only left-wing results, the next people to get censored are those on the left deemed not left-wing enough.

A private business is allowed to do as they please. Are you still not getting that?

[TheDarkKnight]

Sounds like violation of net neutrality, especially given how far-left and Islamist content seems to be doing just fine, despite the fact that allegations of incitement of violence in their case are actually true.

It's not, though. Businesses are free to close down sites if they own the overall property.

If people's internet providers were not allowing them to access the sites, that WOULD be a violation of net neutrality. It is a big difference.