EB-So Good It Ruins Everything Else

[Brihentin13]

Does anyone else seem to have this problem? Looking at other mods, I always feel disappointed. At this point, for me to really enjoy a mod, it needs to be fantasy themed in order to avoid the sadness that I feel over the lack of attention to historical detail. So far, the only other mod that has scratched that "historical" itch for me is the American Civil War-The Blue and the Grey mod for Empire:TW. I would definitely recommend that to Civil War lovers, although be prepared for some irritating stability issues/crashes. Has anyone found some other really fantastic historical mods for other eras and Total War titles? I'm also open to Mount and Blade Warband mods/expansions. Viking Conquest was a nice dive into some of the history of the viking age.

[hlidskjalf]

i liked your previous avatar more

[Brihentin13]

i liked your previous avatar more

It changes with the seasons and the necessities of the political climate(which I won't discuss here for fear of getting too off topic). I had a Charlie Hebdo cover, "La vie da mahomet" for a while. I even had something vaguely Celtic to go with my love of EB another time! The Pepe triforce is probably my best so far, as fit neatly with my involvement in the Hyrule Total War community and the absurd joy that is the power of memes. It may make a comeback one day.

Back on topic, is Brytenwalda worth a separate download? I've always been told that Viking Conquest is just Brytenwalda with funding, but if its significantly different, I wouldn't mind giving it a shot.

As for Bannerlord, we can only dream...

[hlidskjalf]

It changes with the seasons and the necessities of the political climate(which I won't discuss here for fear of getting too off topic). I had a Charlie Hebdo cover, "La vie da mahomet" for a while. I even had something vaguely Celtic to go with my love of EB another time! The Pepe triforce is probably my best so far, as fit neatly with my involvement in the Hyrule Total War community and the absurd joy that is the power of memes. It may make a comeback one day.

Back on topic, is Brytenwalda worth a separate download? I've always been told that Viking Conquest is just Brytenwalda with funding, but if its significantly different, I wouldn't mind giving it a shot.

As for Bannerlord, we can only dream...

i was in fact commenting on your celtic avatar

forgotten hope 2 is a fantastic mod for historicity regarding weapons/vehicles if you have any interest in ww2. it's for battlefield 2, http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/

[Darios]

It changes with the seasons and the necessities of the political climate(which I won't discuss here for fear of getting too off topic). I had a Charlie Hebdo cover, "La vie da mahomet" for a while. I even had something vaguely Celtic to go with my love of EB another time! The Pepe triforce is probably my best so far, as fit neatly with my involvement in the Hyrule Total War community and the absurd joy that is the power of memes. It may make a comeback one day.

Back on topic, is Brytenwalda worth a separate download? I've always been told that Viking Conquest is just Brytenwalda with funding, but if its significantly different, I wouldn't mind giving it a shot.

As for Bannerlord, we can only dream...

Brihentin13 - You are free to post whatever profile picture you want, but let me just say, as one born and raised in the Southern USA - your profile picture does not impress anyone.

Even if it is our heritage, treason is nothing to be proud of and had the Civil War taken place during the time of Caesar - the Romans would have beheaded the rank and file of the planter aristocracy, enslaved their wives and daughters, and probably turned the region over to freed blacks and Roman colonists.

[Kull]

Brihentin13 - You are free to post whatever profile picture you want, but let me just say, as one born and raised in the Southern USA - your profile picture does not impress anyone.

Even if it is our heritage, treason is nothing to be proud of and had the Civil War taken place during the time of Caesar - the Romans would have beheaded the rank and file of the planter aristocracy, enslaved their wives and daughters, and probably turned the region over to freed blacks and Roman colonists.

There's a whole forum for this sort of discussion. Let's end it here.

[Genghis Skahn]

Does anyone else seem to have this problem? Looking at other mods, I always feel disappointed. At this point, for me to really enjoy a mod, it needs to be fantasy themed in order to avoid the sadness that I feel over the lack of attention to historical detail. So far, the only other mod that has scratched that "historical" itch for me is the American Civil War-The Blue and the Grey mod for Empire:TW. I would definitely recommend that to Civil War lovers, although be prepared for some irritating stability issues/crashes. Has anyone found some other really fantastic historical mods for other eras and Total War titles? I'm also open to Mount and Blade Warband mods/expansions. Viking Conquest was a nice dive into some of the history of the viking age.

Brytenwalda is a pretty good M&B historical mod. Lots of cool extra features have been added to the game as well(weapon break, stamina, injuries, new siege mechanics)

[Cohors_Evocata]

Brytenwalda is a pretty good M&B historical mod. Lots of cool extra features have been added to the game as well(weapon break, stamina, injuries, new siege mechanics)

So good, it even got remade into an official expansion.

[Morrowgan]

If only Bannerlord wouldn't take so long...

[Slaytaninc]

Viking Conquest is inspired by Brytenwalda, and some of the people who made the latter were on the team, but it's not Brytenwalda and isn't meant to be. For a start the mass market wouldn't pay for Brytenwalda.

[AnthoniusII]

Again...It's all about personal taste. Also its all about evolution through expirience.
I explain.
Once upon a time there was a HUGE mod project called M2TW Total Realism Age of Ambition.
The project was so ambitius and HUGE that the modding expirience of the time right after M2TW release was so limited that could not have a chance.
Other ambitius projects died because of the same reason.
What WE ALL enjoy today is a result of more than 10 years of searching and tool evolution and of hundreds of modders dedication.
That means that back then there was no IWTE tool that 3 people started and 2 of them still suport it to allow us having mods like this.
Also texturing technics also improved with Rusichi/MARKA team to show the way.
Other modders explored new animations etc...
So its rather unfair to compare this mod with early developed mods that were not lucky to have such tools in their disposal.
In any case everything comes to our personal taste.

[Morrowgan]

Dominion of the Sword could be considered the EB of the Medieval age but progress is slow and silent now.

[Jurand of Cracow]

I'm sligthly surprised that the thread evolves in this direction (I'm not sure if the EB hosts would like mods' comparisons, if not - sorry for that), but according to my experience (listed below) and preferences the best of the other mods at the moment is the Stainless Steel Historical Improvement Project. However, it's always a question of personal taste, difficulty expected, stability, and plethora of other issues.

For me the following aspects in any mod are essential:

1. Gameplay – how does it feel to play over many turns: do I want to play one-more-turn, do I find developments convincing, am I willing to suspend my disbelief etc. Is the mod environment difficult enought to provide with challenges.
2. Historicity – names, maps, units, events, buildings, but also evolution the situation on the map.
3. Immersion – on the one hand role-playing (including generals’ traits), on the other empire building, including province development.
4. Battles – does it feel like being a general giving realistic orders; are the results of fighting rational and historical.

What I care less about is the graphical side of the battles:

• Historicity of the different models, weapons etc. of the units shown in-battle.
• Esthetic appearance of the units and environment.

I have played extensively Stainless Steel with different submods: Byg Grim Reality IV_E, Battle for the Baltics 2.0, and Historical Units Regions Buildings 5.4. I’ve played a few games on Broken Crescent 2.4 with Buff and Shine 1.6. I have also tried other medieval times M2TW mods:, Deus lo Vult 6.2, Bellum Crucis 7.0, Anatolian Principalities, SS-BGRV – but I've found them much inferior on the gameplay and left after 20-40 turns. With the RTW I have played devotedly Europa Barbarorum 1.2 and Rome Total Realism VII; until today just one game with Europa Barbarorum II (but I'm preparing for dozens in future). I've also played a few games with R2TW-DeI and ATW-FotE-EP, and one very long campaign ATW-Tuskmod as WRE. I’ve also had a look at other M2TW mods (HiMA, DoC, IND, DIK, HRR, 1648, BS, OiM2, DotS, TATW) and played other TW games (old good MTW, horrible ETW).

[Kull]

I'm sligthly surprised that the thread evolves in this direction (I'm not sure if the EB hosts would like mods' comparisons, if not - sorry for that)

A nice discussion on why other mods are nice and the things they do well is certainly appreciated. I would ask that folks try to avoid quick dismissals of other mods and keep the discussion constructive. We still have bad memories from the "RTR sux, EB rulz!" days.

[Brihentin13]

I'm sligthly surprised that the thread evolves in this direction (I'm not sure if the EB hosts would like mods' comparisons, if not - sorry for that), but according to my experience (listed below) and preferences the best of the other mods at the moment is the Stainless Steel Historical Improvement Project. However, it's always a question of personal taste, difficulty expected, stability, and plethora of other issues.

For me the following aspects in any mod are essential:

1. Gameplay – how does it feel to play over many turns: do I want to play one-more-turn, do I find developments convincing, am I willing to suspend my disbelief etc. Is the mod environment difficult enought to provide with challenges.
2. Historicity – names, maps, units, events, buildings, but also evolution the situation on the map.
3. Immersion – on the one hand role-playing (including generals’ traits), on the other empire building, including province development.
4. Battles – does it feel like being a general giving realistic orders; are the results of fighting rational and historical.

What I care less about is the graphical side of the battles:

• Historicity of the different models, weapons etc. of the units shown in-battle.
• Esthetic appearance of the units and environment.

I have played extensively Stainless Steel with different submods: Byg Grim Reality IV_E, Battle for the Baltics 2.0, and Historical Units Regions Buildings 5.4. I’ve played a few games on Broken Crescent 2.4 with Buff and Shine 1.6. I have also tried other medieval times M2TW mods:, Deus lo Vult 6.2, Bellum Crucis 7.0, Anatolian Principalities, SS-BGRV – but I've found them much inferior on the gameplay and left after 20-40 turns. With the RTW I have played devotedly Europa Barbarorum 1.2 and Rome Total Realism VII; until today just one game with Europa Barbarorum II (but I'm preparing for dozens in future). I've also played a few games with R2TW-DeI and ATW-FotE-EP, and one very long campaign ATW-Tuskmod as WRE. I’ve also had a look at other M2TW mods (HiMA, DoC, IND, DIK, HRR, 1648, BS, OiM2, DotS, TATW) and played other TW games (old good MTW, horrible ETW).

I didn't like Stainless Steel when I played it. The battles were a little too fast, in my opinion. Everyone juts sort of lumped together for a second and died. There was very little time to pull off any maneuvers or strategy besides "have more guys on the death pile". Obviously, you're super into SS and I don't mean to diss your opinion or your work, I just don't think it's the right fit for me.

[Jurand of Cracow]

I didn't like Stainless Steel when I played it. The battles were a little too fast, in my opinion. Everyone juts sort of lumped together for a second and died. There was very little time to pull off any maneuvers or strategy besides "have more guys on the death pile". Obviously, you're super into SS and I don't mean to diss your opinion or your work, I just don't think it's the right fit for me.

I accept this argument - there're quite a few people having this feeling, including at times myself . There're also moders who tweak the SS in your direction, for the SSHIP it's here.
However, there's a counterargument against EBII-style of fighting: if you let the battles to last long, you give the player advantage of having the time to make enveloppent (the AI is too dumb to pull it off). As most of the battles on the M2TW engine are "let's get to their backs" style, the slow pace of EBII battles make this tactis very effective, conducted with impunity. To my mind, we need to make breaking of the main battleline a serious risk for the player to make battles a challenge. Faster rate of killing - as it is in the SSHIP - is a superior option in this respect. But I may change this opinion after I play more EBII battles.
On the margins: I'm not sure if it's possible to make on the M2TW engine having more out of fatique-morale, as this moder is doing on the ATW engine. (he did it for the M2TW previously, afaik).

PS. I like to quote Mary Beard in this context: “Roman military tactics were much over-rated. All the clever ones had the same idea, which was to go round the back.”

[Brihentin13]

I accept this argument - there're quite a few people having this feeling, including at times myself . There're also moders who tweak the SS in your direction, for the SSHIP it's here.
However, there's a counterargument against EBII-style of fighting: if you let the battles to last long, you give the player advantage of having the time to make enveloppent (the AI is too dumb to pull it off). As most of the battles on the M2TW engine are "let's get to their backs" style, the slow pace of EBII battles make this tactis very effective, conducted with impunity. To my mind, we need to make breaking of the main battleline a serious risk for the player to make battles a challenge. Faster rate of killing - as it is in the SSHIP - is a superior option in this respect. But I may change this opinion after I play more EBII battles.
On the margins: I'm not sure if it's possible to make on the M2TW engine having more out of fatique-morale, as this moder is doing on the ATW engine. (he did it for the M2TW previously, afaik).

PS. I like to quote Mary Beard in this context: “Roman military tactics were much over-rated. All the clever ones had the same idea, which was to go round the back.”

Now THAT is interesting. The battles not being my cup of tea was really my only deal-breaker(conflict being the entire point of a game called "Total War"). SS looked incredibly interesting, save for this most troublesome setup. EB does, indeed go very far in the opposite direction of SS. It is arguably too much, which is demonstrated most clearly in the Sabaton song-worthy last stands that people put up in sieges. Somewhere in the middle of the two is definitely worth me looking into.

As for the "vanilla" thing, I am ambivalent. I don't really "roleplay" besides crushing anyone who would dare to oppose me ("L'etat c'est moi"), but I appreciate unit variety and more fleshed-out gameplay. The battles can remain very similar to vanilla, so long as they mix things up with some new units or factions. In fantasy, I value creativity and lore, whereas in historical settings I appreciate being true enough to history that I can learn some neat things while I play. So long as the gameplay is good, I don't care what it resembles. A good example of this is the Mount and Blade Warband mod Nova Aetas. The combat is essentially unchanged from vanilla, they just added new units/locales/weapons/factions etc. There's a great deal of difference in the "campaign" mechanics, but the combat is still simple hack and slash. Since the game is in a made-up land of Calradia, I'm fine with it being a little vague with historical accuracy. They just kinda threw some medieval and renaissance stuff together along vague cultural lines (Nords are the Nordic states, Swadia is sort of England and France jammed together, etc).

In a mod about a real place in a real time in history, however, I expect to see some real effort put into getting things right.

One of the other suggestions was for Bellum Imperii for Mount and Blade. I wasn't a huge fan of that mod. It seemed a little too "hollywood" Roman and didn't really make being one of the non-Roman factions all that fun. To each their own, I guess. One of the things I like so much about EB is being someone who isn't Roman. I don't think I've actually even done a Roman game on II yet. I've pretty much played the living hell out of the continental Celts so far. Next up, I'm torn between doing a Proto-Byzantium run as Pergamon, Making Greece Great Again as KH, or maybe just going all the way to other side of the map and really mixing things up as Taksashila.

I'm really leaning Pergamon, the more I think about it. I haven't fooled around with pikes in a while, and some of their regionals look pretty cool.

[hlidskjalf]

PS. I like to quote Mary Beard in this context: “Roman military tactics were much over-rated. All the clever ones had the same idea, which was to go round the back.”

i resent that

[Morrowgan]

SSHIP doesn't convey the immersion and gravity EB II has.

[Morrowgan]

Stainless Steel fails at destroying a certain "Vanilla" feeling of the setting while EB is very successful at doing so in R:TW and obviously in Medieval 2.