Allied governments; Democracy/Oligarchic which one to you?

[maxmizer]

Hello! I had another question about the game.

Like Getai, some factions do not have means of fast culture conversion so in this case usually it's not too bad to use allied governments.

But then when I have to choose between democracy and oligarchic, which one is good for what situation?

I do know they vary at the building time/cost and such, and if you only think about bonus numbers it seems democracy is better, but surely there would be a situation when Oligarchic is much better to install?

Again sorry if I mad any grammar mistakes and such, and also thank you in advance.

[2Saz]

Allied Governments are more than "not too bad"! In certain cases, it's the only way to get units you wouldn't get with your factional governments. For example, in my current Arverni campaign I've built an Allied Democratic State in Massilia in order to get Hoplitai.

If you are roleplaying, the choice between Democratic and Oligarchic States can be based on historical elements, if you have the required knowledge. But basically, Oligarchic State gives more cavalry and Democratic State more infantry so depending on what the settlements has to offer in terms of troops and what you need, this is a first way to make your choice. If I remember correctly, Democratic State gives a Happiness bonus while the Oligarchic State gives a law bonus which makes the later more appropriate for settlements undermined by corruption.

[Ivir Baggins]

Also, you can't install Democracies in Camps.

[maxmizer]

I actually didn't know they vary at infantry/cavalry ratio, that is very good to know!
Also didn't know you couldn't install democracy at some places. Thank you very much for the answers.

[MagusCaligula]

It's not just the ratio difference, usually the best cavalry unit you can only get from oligarchy and the best infantry from democracy if I'm not mistaken. Also democracy gives discount when retraining naval units in coastal settlements if I'm not mistaken now.

[hlidskjalf]

yeah, democratic is the better bet for colonies for the naval benefits.

[Rad]

Oligarchic, it's almost a no brainer. One usually gets more cavalry and/or elite units and there's the law bonus. At least 4 out of 5 of all my allied cities are oligarchic states.

[I_Damian]

The way public order works in this mod... building allied government in newly-conquered cities is a must. You need them for the public order bonuses that come from the puppet king.

Oh yeah, I forgot... I always go for the one which gives the most public order/law bonuses, because otherwise my cities revolt all the time.

[myarta]

The way public order works in this mod... building allied government in newly-conquered cities is a must. You need them for the public order bonuses that come from the puppet king.

Oh yeah, I forgot... I always go for the one which gives the most public order/law bonuses, because otherwise my cities revolt all the time.

Unfortunately the long-term solution to that is to raise your culture % in the town, but Allied Govt buildings raise the independent culture % instead of yours (though I think being owned by you and the client ruler counting as your general helps a little, as do any culture conversion buildings you manage to build). I started to have this problem around Thrace/NE Greece as Rome, where I had to carefully search my generals (lot of tedious speakers, unhappy people, Races/GamesHaterRomanVice people that would cause revolts even with a full stack in the city), and try to hang on for a little.

Maybe I should try a generation of client rulers first and convert to provinces when they die out. It seems like expanding would be glacially slow at that pace, though I understand this is a 1000 turn game.

[Brihentin13]

I think that, roleplaying aside, the decision is very faction and area specific. For instance, as the Boioi, your powerbase will likely be central Europe(this is assuming you're not doing a migration campaign). You will likely not get ports in your first round of conquests. If you move into Italy or into Greece, however, you suddenly have a port-a-palooza, making those naval benefits in a democratic state very, very helpful. Furthermore, Roman and Greek cavalry is nothing special(equites and hippeis, whoopty-doo) so you benefit more from infantry auxillaries. If you were to invade somewhere without a great port that has, say, a Samartian population, then, suddenly, those oligarchy horse recruitment benefits look a lot more tempting.

[Colos1987]

That's what I do usually. A client ruler typically serves for about 40 odd years, that's more than 150 turns. At the end of such a long period, your culture should have at least the relative highest rate, even with Allied State's Independent culture conversion ability.

[Kilo11]

Like Getai, some factions do not have means of fast culture conversion so in this case usually it's not too bad to use allied governments.

But then when I have to choose between democracy and oligarchic, which one is good for what situation?

I do know they vary at the building time/cost and such, and if you only think about bonus numbers it seems democracy is better, but surely there would be a situation when Oligarchic is much better to install?

Just as a general guide, there is a very nice thread in the EB Gameplay Guides sub-forum which explains all the different governments available to each faction, and what they do. See:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...s-and-Colonies
The Allied Governments are at the bottom of the first post, and that information applies (apparently) to allied governments for all factions. I think the above posts cover your question already, but that guide provides a nice overview of lots of info.

[bigdaddy1204]

I've often wondered about this. In my Pergamon campaign, i tried to build the Hellenistic government buildings as much as possible. I noticed that the native government options seemed to reduce income in exchange for higher public order. So i decided to only build those in cities far away or if i needed to move my army onto the next target quickly.

In terms of democracy vs oligarchy, i would go oligarchy. The only advantage of democracy seems to be stronger fleets of naval units, but in my campaign i felt naval power is not very important as the main threat to my little Anatolian kingdom came from barbarians and other factions in the interior.

Good luck in your campaign! Hope this helps.

[paulhewsoon1]

I have a doubt about client king. Do they have a surname? They seem not and that can cause confussion with other generals.

[MrBlack103]

In my current Roman campaign I'm finding myself usually going with oligarchic for the better cavalry. I don't generally need more heavy infantry in my armies for obvious reasons.

That said, I do set up democracies in certain strategic points because local infantry is great for maintaining a decent garrison.