How Ancient China: Total War potentially could turn out (very diverse)...

[zoner16]

The steppes to Han is like Pontus or Parthia to Rome, war spilled into there very frequently but control was fleeting because it was economically too different.

Korea is more like Germania. When expanding, the Han made inroads but it was a province too far and not a major area in times of war. Except Han practices were probably more readily adopted in Korea than Roman practices in Germania.

Parthia and Germania are sure places to include in a Rome game, and so the steppes and Korea are sure places to include in a Han game.

Tibet is like Arabia. All or parts are probably going to be in the game, because it makes the map less odd-shaped, but in play it will largely be that big empty place over there. And maybe even make units take attrition when they move up in altitude.

India I think was only ever in the Alexander campaign. India would fit only in later eras with Buddhism and trade.

The only important map boundary is the west. Variety of factions replacing lost Han influence in the west and some more interesting factions going out further, but the Wei armies were too preoccupied to go very far west.

I'd say that Korea is more like the Caucasus than Germania. It was a lot more stable than Germania for starters, with the Kingdom of Goguryeo ruling over the north, and smaller kingdoms ruling in the south. Though they weren't exactly at the same development as the Han, they weren't just tribal confederacies anymore either. Geography mostly kept them from being conquered by the Han, and while Goguryeo did lose a war to Wei and was forced to pay tribute, they would catch up militarily towards the end of the Three Kingdoms Era, with records indicating that they had actually superseded Jin in terms of quality (though obviously not quantity) of heavy cavalry.

Tibet is likely not going to be there in its entirety. We're a few centuries off from the formation of the Tibetan empire and right now the Western regions are barely populated or organized. The Eastern side of Tibet is more important, so we'll probably see some Tibetan tribes (other than the Qiang) kicking about, and maybe some off map trade routes.

Am I the only one who wants a return to the Shogun 2 system where every faction has nearly identical units? It makes the possibility of an Avatar Conquest feature. Unit diversity has also caused a lot of problems in previous TW games. The AI doesn't know how to properly optimize an army and often times just spends all its money on lots of low rank units that get obliterated, or adversely spend only on a few high rank units that die to projectiles. Auto-resolve is also hampered by unit diversity because there are a lot of options and you often get odd results where it says the battle is a definite win but when you actually play it the results are often very different.

What I think will likely be the case is that each faction will have heroes like in Warhammer or ToB, and faction units will mostly be the same with some geographical specialties. Like maybe southerners can recruit elephants or northerners have better cavalry.

No, because it wouldn't be historical or interesting. China is massive, and the land the Han Dynasty historically controlled at its height was comparable to the Roman Empire at its. Various regions have their own specialties and ways of fighting, numerous non-Han auxiliaries and mercenaries abound, and advancements in military technology and science continued well into this era.

[NostalgiaFan]

No, because it wouldn't be historical or interesting. China is massive, and the land the Han Dynasty historically controlled at its height was comparable to the Roman Empire at its. Various regions have their own specialties and ways of fighting, numerous non-Han auxiliaries and mercenaries abound, and advancements in military technology and science continued well into this era.

Agreed. Even if someone wants to argue that diversity is causing problems that would be inaccurate. It's not unit diversity that is causing problems it's CA's problem with not knowing how to properly create a balanced historical unit roster while being diverse. Look at Rome 2 and Attila for example, how many hoplite, phalanx, javelin, and cataphract units were there to the point of making almost all factions look the exact same and lower tier units were useless? This same issue was in Empire and Napoleon where almost everyone looked and fought the exact same making it irrelevant how you go about fighting and making weaker units pointless.

CA in my opinion should simply focus more on making what unique units they give to certain factions really count and feel not only different, but useful. Shogun 2 may have swapped whatever diversity the factions may of had in the time period(outside of the unit dlc) but they made sure almost every single unit had a purpose and could be useful in their own way. Ashigaru were the weakest unit type but they usually had higher numbers then Samurai and were cheaper as well so they could be used to overwhelm their stronger opponents. Monks were the strongest unit type next to heroes but they were in lower numbers then other and were more expansive to make so they had to watch out for being surrounded and had less armor then usual so they were more vulnerable to missile fire. Samurai were the good solid base between the other unit types in that they were stronger then Ashigaru and were larger then Monks but they still had to watch out for being overwhelmed by the Former's numbers and had to be careful when picking a fight with the later. Heroes were the king of the battle field and able to take on multiple units alone but they still could be overwhelmed worse then regular units and were expansive and rare as hell making them something you need to watch over even more then other units.

In the other titles I mentioned most of the units you have are pointless and have no point by the end of the game which is why it is a problem. If CA could do something like Shogun 2 did while adding unique units to the factions it would really help the gameplay and even make it possible for the return of an Avatar conquest mode.

[AK47]

It won't be most of Asia as Asia is too big - it's more than 4x the area of Europe. They definitely should include Mongolia and Korea, as those places were pretty relevant and 3K/Han Dynasty territory extended into those areas. Leaving out Korea would be like leaving out the British Isles and Spain in RomeTW.

India is probably a long shot, as it was separated by the Himalayan mountains and the gigantic Tibetan plateau and didn't have much to do the 3 kingdoms. Although if they did a more general East Asia game (eg. Han Dynasty era) then they could certain include India, Indo-Persian kingdoms like Kushan, Parthians, etc.

I'm glad were likely to see Korea & Mongolia at least.
They could do alot with DLC campaigns though, like a campaign DLC featuring India, another featuring south east asia like Vietnam & Thailand.

[zoner16]

I'm glad were likely to see Korea & Mongolia at least.
They could do alot with DLC campaigns though, like a campaign DLC featuring India, another featuring south east asia like Vietnam & Thailand.

DLC is for things you can reasonably fit into the same game. India is a separate game, just in general. The subcontinent is almost as big as the China we're going to be getting in 3K and even more diverse. There isn't any meaningful interaction between the two either, since there's a massive mountain range and the entire Tibetan plateau in between.

Southeast Asia, as much as I like it, probably doesn't have enough going on to justify anything beyond the Han occupation zones and what immediately borders them. Really, it's just Funan down there right now, along with a couple of small kingdoms, and a whole bunch of disorganized tribes.

[The Wandering Storyteller]

DLC is for things you can reasonably fit into the same game. India is a separate game, just in general. The subcontinent is almost as big as the China we're going to be getting in 3K and even more diverse. There isn't any meaningful interaction between the two either, since there's a massive mountain range and the entire Tibetan plateau in between.

Southeast Asia, as much as I like it, probably doesn't have enough going on to justify anything beyond the Han occupation zones and what immediately borders them. Really, it's just Funan down there right now, along with a couple of small kingdoms, and a whole bunch of disorganized tribes.

Don't know about you guys, but the Chola Empire would be a great setting for an Indian total war game. India in itself is an incredibly diverse region that will need to occupy the whole space of a campaign map. People assume that this is it's Medieval era, but to be honest if one ever examines the Hindu History of India, you'll find it's very much like China's in a sense, when Kingdoms and Empires fought against each other.

These settings, my fav is the Chola Empire, and the rest I'll list here:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Mauryan Empire:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Nanda Empire:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

So India is a very diverse culture and will take some time. It's no easy project that is for sure. But CA did do an excellent job in portraying the Marathas fighting the Mughals, but not on the unit uniforms and stuff when we say for Empire. Tbh too much has been said on the Mughal Empire and the Medieval era, but certainly not enough on the Marathas(a very big empire, the Last of the Hindu Empires before the Duke of Wellington defeated them in three wars) and certainly there's not enough heard of these Empires. I feel if CA did these periods, it'd be nice.

But although I am jealous of the Chinese community getting their own total war(just kidding...) I'm actually glad. Finally no more Europe! Go diverse! Nine settings I believe have been in Europe. High time CA went to Asia.

Although, I wouldn't mind India getting it's own total war in the future. I REALLY WANT ONE!!!!

[NostalgiaFan]

A India Total war would be cool. Despite how much I thought Empire was the worst Total war game due to all the crappy AI and balance issues as well as for the combat which was worse for Non-European factions that had to relay on that more, I still liked playing the Maratha because they were different then the rest and the Indian Sub Continent was something we never got to see in other TW games(closet to it was Alexander and you only fought them in custom and historical battles, never get a chance to actually fight them in the campaign which sucked).

I think while India may not get a full Total War game like China due to it being even more obscure, I could defiantly see it getting a Saga game about one of it's time periods. Most likely will use the same engine 3K is using just like TOB is using the Attila engine.

[The Wandering Storyteller]

A India Total war would be cool. Despite how much I thought Empire was the worst Total war game due to all the crappy AI and balance issues as well as for the combat which was worse for Non-European factions that had to relay on that more, I still liked playing the Maratha because they were different then the rest and the Indian Sub Continent was something we never got to see in other TW games(closet to it was Alexander and you only fought them in custom and historical battles, never get a chance to actually fight them in the campaign which sucked).

I think while India may not get a full Total War game like China due to it being even more obscure, I could defiantly see it getting a Saga game about one of it's time periods. Most likely will use the same engine 3K is using just like TOB is using the Attila engine.

I agree with you that India has been a potentially untapped series. If a saga game could be made, then awesome. But India in itself will the biggest project ever CA will do if they ever choose to do it.(Who knows! They might be doing pre-planning now and release it in the future) I mean never, ever in my wildest dreams would I ever imagine CA to even plan a China total war. No wonder they were so good at keeping it a secret.

Empire was for me, a mix of both good and great. It still is better than RII because it has a degree of a medium political system. But the graphics of the units and soldiers? Horrendous.

Back to the topic, they should not go down the uniform color route that CA has done in every game and saturate the Kingdoms of Wei, Shu and the Southlands with bright colors that your eyes pop out. They have to really come up with unique colors so there is differencence. There were a lot of warlords holding out flags of different colors, so that should be emphasized as well.

[jamreal18]

Rise of the Han Dynasty/Chu-Han contention mod for MTW2 & general Info:
http://www.moddb.com/mods/chu-and-han-total-war

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighteen_Kingdoms

Fall of the Han Dynasty/Three Kingdoms mod.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG3LTs9ASbA

Will the A.I. going to follow these?

[Intranetusa]

Will the A.I. going to follow these?

I doubt it. These will probably be seen in scenario or DLC campaigns like Hannibal at the Gates or Caesar in Gaul.

[geala]

Scripted faction development would be a very bad thing for the grand campaign. TW was always about alternative history, where a backcountry faction could conquer the whole world. For example I heartily dislike complains that Rome in TW:R2 is not always "a big faction" during playthroughs. Same here in old China. I don't want to replay the actual history, I want to make my own. So I demand historical accuracy for the political system, borders, units etc. at starting date. Units should stay as historically correct as possible (although I can accept some unhistorical stuff, like artillery for Germanic barbarians or such, for example), factions don't.