Historical swords used in EB II

[Roma_Victrix]

This is something that has always fascinated me and I'm curious to know the basis for the designs of various swords in the game.

In the heat of battle, zooming in on units to observe the sweet graphics and excellent job the modelers and skin-designers have done, I've come to notice the many historical weapons being used. For instance, I've obviously seen the Romans wielding the standard gladius and some Greek units armed with either the single-edged kopis or the double-edged xiphos. I'm less certain about the armaments of factions belonging to other cultures, though, such as (Iranian) Parthians, (Arab) Sabaeans, (Celtic) Aedui, and (Germanic) Sweboz. I'm still trying to determine if the Thureopherontes Hippotoxotai (Hellenistic horse archers) wield only the kopis and xiphos when they're not punishing enemies with their bows and arrows, or if some of them possess some kind of funky Pontic/Black Sea/Scythian type swords. Some of the pommels and handles look very interesting to say the least. If this mod extended all the way to Qin and Han China then we'd also see contemporaneous dao and jian swords, but thankfully our mod includes the northeastern part of South Asia (Taksashila faction). What sort of swords were used in ancient India and Pakistan and do they feature in our mod at all?

I'd actually like to make an inventory of all the swords that are used and learn more about the historical basis for their appearance in the game. I'm sure the developers of this mod did some painstaking research into the matter, using ancient artwork and modern archaeology as a guide. Unfortunately I can't find any pictures from my own collection that show a clear, close-up shot of unsheathed swords, even though I have pics of swordsmen like these Libyan swordsmen, who are wielding their javelins in this scene. Sharing pictures here of in-game shots would be highly appreciated!

[QuintusSertorius]

The Sabaeans aren't Arabs.

[Aleksander the Average]

The Sabaeans aren't Arabs.

is being Arab not the same as being from the Arabian peninsula?

[Raiuga]

You are using a current term to define a ancient nation

[Roma_Victrix]

The Sabaeans aren't Arabs.

You are using a current term to define a ancient nation

Uh, this thread of mine is about swords, not about Arabs. Can we keep the non-sequitur stuff out of here? So long as we're on the subject, though, the Sabaean people of ancient Yemen not only spoke an Old South Arabian language (a branch of the Semitic language family), but they undoubtedly inhabited a region of the Arabian peninsula. The term "Arabia" has nothing to do with modern-day nation states, like Saudi Arabia, or Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, etc. And your claim that it is a modern term is a laughable one considering how the Hellenistic-period Greeks called it Arabia (Greek: Αραβία), as did the ancient Romans after them.

Now if you're quite done with this chicanery and monkey business, we should talk about swords. You know, the purpose of this thread.

[Gabriel Oi Taurisia]

I believe Roma_Victrix is right. I daresay Sabaeans can be considered Arabs the same way Etrusci or Umbri are considered Italians. This being said, Arabia isn't Saudi Arabia (or Yemen) the same way Italy isn't the Italian Republic (or the Vatican State). We can't compare apples and oranges (or better, regions and states).

Anyway, I know little, if not nothing, about weapons from such places .

[MagusCaligula]

Well I'm curious why Quintus believe they weren't Arabs though because their language and culture was Arabic.

[Aleksander the Average]

I for one would like to get back to the discussion of swords. How do you plan to catalogue them?
perhaps instead of taking in-game screenshots of every sword-wielding unit you could take images directly from the ".texture" files (in [your directory]\Medieval II Total War\mods\ebii\data\unit_models\att)
i'm not sure what program you can use to view those files though... maybe there's a GIMP add-on for them?

[Roma_Victrix]

I believe Roma_Victrix is right. I daresay Sabaeans can be considered Arabs the same way Etrusci or Umbri are considered Italians. This being said, Arabia isn't Saudi Arabia (or Yemen) the same way Italy isn't the Italian Republic (or the Vatican State). We can't compare apples and oranges (or better, regions and states).

Anyway, I know little, if not nothing, about weapons from such places .

On that note, the Umbrians were Indo-Europeans who spoke an Italic language, much like the Latin-speaking Romans, but I wouldn't strongly compare them to the Etruscans, who spoke a language isolate or a Tyrsenian one. On that same token, the ancient Sabaeans spoke an Old South Arabian language that is related to modern Arabic and at the very least belongs to the same Semitic branch of the greater Afro-Asiatic language family. Culturally speaking, the Sabaeans were tied to the rest of Arabia as much as the Umbrians were to other Italic-speaking peoples in Iron Age Italy.

But yes, let's get back to swords.

I for one would like to get back to the discussion of swords. How do you plan to catalogue them?
perhaps instead of taking in-game screenshots of every sword-wielding unit you could take images directly from the ".texture" files (in [your directory]\Medieval II Total War\mods\ebii\data\unit_models\att)
i'm not sure what program you can use to view those files though... maybe there's a GIMP add-on for them?

That's a great suggestion! I should look into that, although I don't mind taking screenshots here and there.

I could catalog all of this stuff by arranging it either chronologically or alphabetically, by culture or faction, in the OP. That way everything will be concentrated in one place and won't be scattered throughout the thread as our discussion continues.

As for the Celts, their equipment is often noted as to the period culture it dates to, so swords before 500 BC are often just called Hallstatt swords.

As for the Europa Barbarorum period, those would be the La Tène II swords;

https://myarmoury.com/review_alb_latene.html

http://myarmoury.com/review_tmpl_celt.html



A bloke from myarmoury(Kirk Lee Spencer) cataloged some photo archives chronologically(clockwise direction) from early to late;

https://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=3990

(scroll down a bit for the post)

Another reconstruction;

https://bladesmithsforum.com/uploads...1205337543.jpg

Awesome! Thanks for sharing these links and pics. Beautiful stuff, although we should now compare it to armaments found in EB II.

[Mamlaz]

As for the Celts, their equipment is often noted as to the period culture it dates to, so swords before 500 BC are often just called Hallstatt swords.

As for the Europa Barbarorum period, those would be the La Tène II swords;

https://myarmoury.com/review_alb_latene.html

http://myarmoury.com/review_tmpl_celt.html



A bloke from myarmoury(Kirk Lee Spencer) cataloged some photo archives chronologically(clockwise direction) from early to late;

https://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=3990

(scroll down a bit for the post)

Another reconstruction;

https://bladesmithsforum.com/uploads...1205337543.jpg

[Roma_Victrix]

It is sort of off-topic, but I like the way this guy (Dionysos on a tiger) is handling his spear, looks awfully similar to EB II cavalry holding their spears.

From the Hellenistic mosaics of Delos, Greece, 2nd century BC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaics_of_Delos

As for the Celts, their equipment is often noted as to the period culture it dates to, so swords before 500 BC are often just called Hallstatt swords.

As for the Europa Barbarorum period, those would be the La Tène II swords;

https://myarmoury.com/review_alb_latene.html

http://myarmoury.com/review_tmpl_celt.html



A bloke from myarmoury(Kirk Lee Spencer) cataloged some photo archives chronologically(clockwise direction) from early to late;

https://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=3990

(scroll down a bit for the post)

Another reconstruction;

https://bladesmithsforum.com/uploads...1205337543.jpg

I think we can now compare those La Tene sword images to the Celtic swords found in the game. Unfortunately I couldn't find a closer screenshot than this. Anyone else got something better that they could share?