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Thread: Ming Wei-Suo building

  1. #1

    Default Ming Wei-Suo building

    It looks like the Ming Wei-suo building is indestructible. I understand the desire to differentiate between northern and southern Chinese troops for flavour reasons, but this effectively nerfs the entire Chinese region by taking up a lot in every settlement. Since there's no way to reduce food consumption, it makes the region very undesirable (including long walk times, etc), which is the opposite of what people wanted in history in that China was incredibly rich.

    Is it possible to have the wei-suo building either a) be destructible to allow us to specialize our cities OR 2) have the building remain indestructible but produce 1 food to even out the slot it takes up?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Ming Wei-Suo building

    Quote Originally Posted by Loknath View Post
    I understand the desire to differentiate between northern and southern Chinese troops for flavour reasons, but this effectively nerfs the entire Chinese region by taking up a lot in every settlement.
    Given that every other faction requires 3-4 buildings to get all the units, all of which need to be upgraded multiple times, the Wei-Suo building is massively overpowered.

    Since there's no way to reduce food consumption
    You can easily do this by editing one of the building DB tables.

    which is the opposite of what people wanted in history in that China was incredibly rich.
    And how does this building prevent you becoming rich? All you need to do is upgrade your settlement by one level and then in the new slot you can build a market.

    Is it possible to have the wei-suo building either a) be destructible to allow us to specialize our cities OR 2) have the building remain indestructible but produce 1 food to even out the slot it takes up?
    It's possible to do both but I have no plans to implement either. The Wei-Suo system occurred in every region so I have no plans to remove it. This building replaces 3-4 building that other factions would need to build to get a similar number of units so adding 1 food would make it unbalanced.

    Each different culture has their own strengths and weaknesses, and China's unique recruitment system is an example of this. It's not something you should be complaining about because it's different from how other factions work.
    Morning Sun (adds Korea and China to the Shogun 2 map)
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forum...28-Morning-Sun

    Expanded Japan mod (97 new regions and 101 new factions)
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ew-factions%29

    How to split a region in TWS2
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...split-a-region

    Eras Total Conquest 2.3 (12 campaigns from 970-1547)

  3. #3

    Default Re: Ming Wei-Suo building

    I don't know why you're getting upset over my question.

    You don't need to build every unit in every province. It's the training camp (which is locked behind tech) that's strong not the wei-suo building. It limits growth because if you upgrade the settlement to increase a slot for a market you're trading 1 global food consumption giving 1 growth over all 61 of your starting provinces in exchange for 5 growth in one province.

    At the end of the day it's your mod. If you don't want to change it that's completely fine. I'm just asking a question because normally there aren't buildings that are indestructible and culture-locked (e.g. Rome can destroy Egyptian shrines but here Korea can't do anything about Tusi trails if Tusi didn't upgrade them). I'm not accusing you of anything and I don't get the hostile response with the line by line quotes.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Ming Wei-Suo building

    Quote Originally Posted by Loknath View Post
    I don't know why you're getting upset over my question.
    Because you're asking I make changes to my mod which would change a unique faction into a generic one.

    You don't need to build every unit in every province.
    In China the government provided all the weapons and armour to the local people, so it would be historically inaccurate for a region not to be able to recruit most units.

    It's the training camp (which is locked behind tech) that's strong not the wei-suo building.
    This building was included because at this time the Chinese army was poor quality, so this building allows the Chinese unit's abilities to be increased so they can fight evenly with other factions. Korea has a similar building for the same reason.

    It limits growth because if you upgrade the settlement to increase a slot for a market you're trading 1 global food consumption giving 1 growth over all 61 of your starting provinces in exchange for 5 growth in one province.
    How is this a problem? The player is free to chose whether they want higher growth or more money.

    I'm just asking a question because normally there aren't buildings that are indestructible and culture-locked (e.g. Rome can destroy Egyptian shrines but here Korea can't do anything about Tusi trails if Tusi didn't upgrade them).
    That's due to a limitation of Shogun 2. Basically you can't limit upgrades by culture, so I either give Tusi access maximum level roads or no one can build them. Also if something requires a tech to upgrade it then only factions that have access to this faction's tech tree can upgrade it.

    I'm not accusing you of anything and I don't get the hostile response with the line by line quotes.
    It's because you were asking me to adapt the mod to how you wanted to play Shogun 2, rather than adapting your play style to deal with a different type of recruitment.
    Morning Sun (adds Korea and China to the Shogun 2 map)
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forum...28-Morning-Sun

    Expanded Japan mod (97 new regions and 101 new factions)
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ew-factions%29

    How to split a region in TWS2
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...split-a-region

    Eras Total Conquest 2.3 (12 campaigns from 970-1547)

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