Several questions

[Jadli]

1) If princesses were enabled for some faction, would it be possible to allow them marry only in these factions (because of different races etc)? Im pretty sure not, but better to ask

2) Is condition "FatherAnc" working? Couldnt get it to work...

3) There is one horde faction (TES mod), and when their last settlement is taken, it sometimes causes a crash (the game perhaps think they should be destroyd...), any ideas what could have gone wrong here?

4) Is there any way to tell AI to adopt more generals? As one big factions in particular often "forgets" to do that and gets destroyed pretty often... Perhaps make a script that would spawn a family member if number of family members of the faction is lower than x. Does there exist such conditions? I also plan to add to more family members to all factions, but thats not actually solving the AI behavior...

5) Talking about conditions, is there any way to choose/omitt family members in triggers for traits/ancillaries? I mean, there conditions such as "IsGeneral", "IsFactionLeader" etc. Not any for this one?

[rafmc1989]

I'll answer you in a while...

[QuintusSertorius]

1) I have no idea.
2) As far as I'm aware, no.
3) That could be absolutely anything; first port of call, check the armies spawned in the descr_character - if there's an invalid unit in there it might explain it.
4) Not as far as I'm aware, that's all buried deep in hardcode. If it's the Teutonic system specifically, that aspect seems to be thoroughly broken.
5) You can use IsFactionLeader and IsFactionHeir; IsGeneral is only useful for preventing Admirals or agents from getting traits.

[rafmc1989]

1) I think not.
2) We used it in Bellum Crucis, it works. In that case, it was used to transfer the Family Dynasties from father to son. For example, when a son grews up, you can use the "FatherAnc" condition to make sure the Dynasty anc is given by the father to the son as well... (the only problem is related to point 4 due to the limits of the FM system).
3) check in descr_character or descr_sm_factions. The mistake causing you crash may be there.
4) Nothing that can be done as hardcoded. Instead, I think the Teutonic System works much better than the regular family members system, as the probability to get new generals is higher and you get rid of the father/son mechanics. In the FM system, usually the second generation of characters dislikes to make new babies ahah (and this harms the transfer of dynasty ancs)...
5) It is possible, indeed. Always in Bellum Crucis we used "hidden traits" for the family members. You put one of these traits to a starting FM, and then you make sure the hidden trait is passed from father to son. Having that, you can create traits/ancs where you put as condition "and not Familymemberguy" (for example), so it will prevent FMs to get those traits/ancs... (again, the only limits are represented by the lack of babies later on in game)...

[Jadli]

Thank you for answers.
Actually, it seems that 1) works pretty easily. I just put no to "can_have_princess" to a faction in descr_sm_factions and other factions can no more marry their generals or FH/FL via diplomacy
Will try 2) again I suppose
3) Will check these files
4) Well, in TES there are 12 turns per year so its pretty hard to die form old age, which is I found surprising that faction actually died... Tho I will lower the number of turns for future version to open more options for players. I suppose Ill just add more FMs in hidden family trees to be sure
5) Ah yea, I knew about this one. I just hoped there is an easier way. Thank you anyway

[rafmc1989]

You're welcome!
so yep the only limits as said, are represented by the mechanics of the FM system (I prefer the Teutonic system as more straightforward).

In any case, ok go on with the tests and investigation about the issues.
For the rest, we're always here to answer...

[QuintusSertorius]

I don't prefer the Teutonic system, because it gives you significantly fewer FMs, and we've observed AI-controlled factions dying out because they had too few.

[rafmc1989]

well, in my case I have to say the opposite (but I do not want to start a discussion either way)...
Using the Teutonic system I always have a sufficient number of generals and all factions live without issues. And, most important, I get rid of the father/son mechanics of the FM system as the game likes to stop "baby production" from the second generation of family members (and this limit messes up all ancs/traits as explained in the posts above)...

But it's ok, we had different views on it

[Withwnar]

2) FatherAnc doesn't work apparently. In that it's a silent fail (no log error) and might actually evaluate to "true" even if the father doesn't have the anc (not sure about that, maybe not). i.e. It might give the impression of working, but it also works when it shouldn't, so really it isn't working at all.

4)...

Perhaps make a script that would spawn a family member if number of family members of the faction is lower than x. Does there exist such conditions?

That's what I ended up doing via traits given to - and inherited by - anybody in a family tree. Script counts how many characters currently have this trait, then spawns a new one (with the "family" attribute/tag) when that number falls below a certain level.

There's no way to count living (or dead) family members directly. The only thing that comes close is I_NumberOfHeirs but it counts all generals (named characters) including the leader, whether they're actually family or not, and does not include off map characters. i.e. It's really a I_NumberOfNamedCharactersOnMap condition.

[rafmc1989]

Well, in any case by removing the FM system and using the Teutonic one you solve all mysteries at once, as there is no more father/son mechanics to deal with, so no margin of inconsistency...

Thanks for the rest of the explanation Withwnar!

[Jadli]

Necroposting... just to say the teutonic doesnt work properly as well, it may kill factions more easily. Whenever a faction with teutonic family tree looses both FL and FH in the same battle, the faction gets destroyed.

And as I have succesfully necroposted this, anyone has an idea about 1) ?

[bitterhowl]

If we speaking about necroposting

2) Is condition "FatherAnc" working? Couldnt get it to work...

Got isolated fatal errors in campaign for Bellum 6.3 with Dynasty anc for Aragon faction. So had to replace that triggers. It seems that engine tried to apply 2 ances at once somehow.

[Gigantus]

Well, the teutonic family tree will always teeter close to extermination, given that it has only FL and FH. Which means getting them both killed in the same battle is lights out - like with any faction in that situation (no further family members).

I have however never tested if designing a extended family tree for them might delay that.

[Jadli]

Ah, I see, that explanation makes sense.... Maybe we could enforce more heirs (like when you give "heir" to more characters in descr_strat)

[Serious Potato]

Teutonic family trees cannot go extinct if you send an heir off the map (IIRC, been a long time since I tested that). Considering the teutonic heir is not the actual heir most of the time, this might be worth looking into. You would probably have to script-kill that heir when the faction is otherwise dead. I suspect the faction would still be considered alive with an off-map heir, thus making certain victory conditions impossible to achieve.

[Gigantus]

The same approach can be done for regular factions to avoid that game mechanic. Which usually leads to the drawbacks you mentioned. But at least you avoid the 'BecomesFactionLeader' crash that happens when FH and FL get killed at the same time.
You don't even have to send the FH off map - a patch of inaccessible landscape will do just fine.
Once the FH dies (they age off map, too) you are however back to square one.