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Thread: Skyrim: end of dungeon bosses - any advice?

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    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Skyrim: end of dungeon bosses - any advice?

    I love the setting of Skyrim, the ability to roam and have your own adventures. One things spoils it for me: I am terrible at defeating end-of-dungeon bosses. They kill my character over and over again. Changing my tactics (using stealth, relying on magic, trying different magic, experimenting with different weapons) does not make a difference - I still die repeatedly.

    Are there tactics which you have learned to use for end-of-dungeon bosses? Should I specialise my character more (I am not an experienced Skyrim player; I tend to want to try a bit of everything - some magic, some sneaking and archery and some melee fighting)? Did anyone else have this problem and how did you overcome it (if you did)?

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    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: Skyrim: end of dungeon bosses - any advice?

    The easiest and best advice is to spam health potions, shouts and consumables. You don't have anything to spend money on anyway. If you want cheese tactics: summon a minion and make yourself invisible, magicka is free and enemies lack any means to detect invisible characters or do the sanguine quest and use his staff (I once had it glitch and instead of a regular dremora it summoned sanguine himself, watching him auto-clear entire dungeons was fun) or go inside the last room, wake/activate the boss and then run back to the doorway. Bosses are scripted so they cannot leave the room they are in and if you stand in the doorway they'll just stand there while you pick them off with archery. The last one works mostly in barrows. If you really really want to break the game and maker bosses a breeze go the alchemy + enchanting + smiting route. Most of the stuff you make will be better than daedric artifacts and that is before the enchantments and debilitating poisons.

    Also jack of all trades is not a very good approach on higher difficulties. Focus on a combat skill at the beginning and get it as high as possible. After that you can develop your other skills without worrying that a random bandit will off you.
    Last edited by Sir Adrian; June 24, 2017 at 01:15 PM.
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    Default Re: Skyrim: end of dungeon bosses - any advice?

    Backing up with what Settra is saying by not only concentrating on an offensive skill but also your defensive skills armour/blocking where appropriate as well as restoration if wanted to. Even alteration by learning a spell like Oakflesh. Nothing wrong with a sneak/melee/archer build just takes abit longer and there's an advantage in being skilled in both close range and ranged attacks. Although weapons can't break in Skyrim it is possible to run out of arrows so it helps having a backup. So decide to concentrate for the moment being sneak/melee or sneak/archer. Hope this helps

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    Caillagh de Bodemloze's Avatar to rede I me delyte
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    Default Re: Skyrim: end of dungeon bosses - any advice?

    You've already been given excellent advice by both Settra and herne_the_hunter, so I won't repeat that.

    Another thing to ask yourself is whether you always have trouble with end-of-dungeon bosses or not. If you only have trouble sometimes - if, for instance, you swatted the previous bandit chief like a fly, but the current bandit chief just will not fall over and die - you might only have a temporary problem caused by levelling. When you gain a level, you get to progress a little bit; you get to increase one ability a bit, and you get one perk point. Bandit chiefs don't increase in power every time you level up, but when they do increase in power, they improve much more than you do in a single level. If you meet a bandit chief just after that power increase, it can come as a bit of a surprise. If you're having one of those moments, it's sometimes worth going away, gaining a few more levels, and then coming back.

    (Here's the uesp page on bandits, as an example of how bandit chief power levels change with your level. Other types of enemy level differently.)

    To almost echo Settra, I'd also say that picking stuff up is a good plan. Don't pick up everything, but do pick up potions and spell scrolls. And then use them. I had terrible trouble with the end boss of Bleak Falls Barrow before I finally realised I'd picked up a very useful spell scroll on the way through Bleak Falls...






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    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: Skyrim: end of dungeon bosses - any advice?

    Thanks everyone for the helpful advice!

    I'll make better use of health potions, shouts (I tend not to use them - perhaps I should go further through the main quest-line, to learn more about them) as well as consumables (as Settra suggested) including spell scrolls (which Caillagh mentioned). I'll work more on defensive skills and magic and focus on fewer fighting skills (following the advice of herne_the_hunter).

    Yes, it's possible that sometimes I am unlucky, fighting dungeon bosses after they have just levelled up - those bandit chiefs which Caillagh linked to sound tough to beat. I suspect that I sometimes fail to spot useful potions or scrolls - I pick up a fair amount of useful stuff, but probably need to look harder.
    Last edited by Alwyn; June 25, 2017 at 08:22 AM.

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    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: Skyrim: end of dungeon bosses - any advice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caillagh de Bodemloze View Post
    You've already been given excellent advice by both Settra and herne_the_hunter, so I won't repeat that.

    Another thing to ask yourself is whether you always have trouble with end-of-dungeon bosses or not. If you only have trouble sometimes - if, for instance, you swatted the previous bandit chief like a fly, but the current bandit chief just will not fall over and die - you might only have a temporary problem caused by levelling. When you gain a level, you get to progress a little bit; you get to increase one ability a bit, and you get one perk point. Bandit chiefs don't increase in power every time you level up, but when they do increase in power, they improve much more than you do in a single level. If you meet a bandit chief just after that power increase, it can come as a bit of a surprise. If you're having one of those moments, it's sometimes worth going away, gaining a few more levels, and then coming back.

    (Here's the uesp page on bandits, as an example of how bandit chief power levels change with your level. Other types of enemy level differently.)

    To almost echo Settra, I'd also say that picking stuff up is a good plan. Don't pick up everything, but do pick up potions and spell scrolls. And then use them. I had terrible trouble with the end boss of Bleak Falls Barrow before I finally realised I'd picked up a very useful spell scroll on the way through Bleak Falls...

    Bleak Falls is where I learned the stand in doorway trick. The boss will just stand there like an idiot and let you chip at him with iron arrows and a hunting bow.
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    Caillagh de Bodemloze's Avatar to rede I me delyte
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    Default Re: Skyrim: end of dungeon bosses - any advice?

    Bleak Falls seems to be a very handy place for learning useful tactics.

    (I'm embarrassed to admit it took me longer than that to work out that shooting arrows from a safe spot is a lovely tactic. )


    Best of luck, Alwyn.






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    Default Re: Skyrim: end of dungeon bosses - any advice?

    All good tips here. I'd add that while most approaches can work my own experience is you need to min max at higher levels almost to the point if powergaming unless your an "optimal" type. I feel a tank ( heavy armour/ 2 handed/smithing) and destruction or summoning Mage (with enchant secondary) are the optimal builds, if you mainly use those skills you can add in a few random skills for fun and still be built for success.

    A Rogue archer with alchemy or smithing works well too, but you need to pick your perks and be a bit more disciplined about using the right skills the right amount. Same goes for a illusion/assassin or a light armour melee type, or a 1handed/healer/melee type.
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    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: Skyrim: end of dungeon bosses - any advice?

    I too had a minor problem with the end boss in Bleak Falls Barrow, but after a while I realize what I should not do and that's to get in melee too quick instead concentrate when I'm gonna hit the enemy and how.

    What I mean by how, is that the player cannot shout, since the PC is lacking a dragon soul and need one to unluck the first word for the Unrelenting Force shout, when facing the end boss in Bleak Falls Barrow. As for hitting the enemy only strike just before the enemy is gonna to hit you after the enemy have shouted. The player will be able to withstand the shout, if positioned correctly in front of the enemy.

    Later, when your PC can shout and have learned several shouts then use a different strategy when facing end bosses who is giving you a problem.

    I try to stand behind a pillar or close to a wall structure, just to protect myself from spells, espcially if you face a dragon priest that's wielding a staff (the Staff of the Storm Wall is the worst) and remember always have Lydia in tow when fighting a tough dungeon boss or one of the enemies in Arcwind Point.
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    Default Re: Skyrim: end of dungeon bosses - any advice?

    Bear in mind that though Skyrim plays a lot like an action game, it is ultimately an RPG, which means that your character's build will ultimately be more important than your own capacity for improvising tactics on the spot. That said, it is not a particularly unforgiving RPG, quite the contrary, it is almost impossible to gimp yourself outright even if you go with a jack of all trades character. The reason for this is the level-scaling system(that someone already mentioned above) that structures the game's progression. Level-scaling means that when you level up, a large part of the enemies that spawn in the world will also level up(not all, but most). This works to your advantage to the extent that you are unlikely to find enemies that are of higher level than your character, and unless you didn't invest much in health, they should not at least be much more resilient than you. But it also works to your disadvantage to the extent that the enemies will level up in a very focused way, for example melee fighters will increase their one-handed/two-handed/whatever skill, in other words, the enemies do specialize, either that or they simply get a bonus to everything as they level up, you'd have to look up on the details if you are interested, but the point is they will always be as powerful as a creature of that level can be with the skill they are using(well, not sure how the increments work exactly, I think it is something like increments of 10 or 20 to the skill every few levels, but rest assured they will be very powerful with that skill either way). So if you don't have a clearly defined build the game is still beatable because you will never be in the situation you would be in Oblivion where inefficient leveling meant that enemies would be massive bullet sponges while you were rather brittle(because you are guaranteed the maximum possible hp increase on level up, provided you pick health and not stamina/mana). Then there is also the fact that the game gives you potions which you can spam while in pause as someone mentioned, plus companions and shouts. Also due to the open-ended nature of the game, you can kite/hit-and-run more or less endlessly, which allows for cheesing even the strongest enemies if you know how to twicth/parkour. Some enemies, especially bosses, are in closed spaces though were you don't have much room for maneuver, except maybe a load-door to the area whence you came, always dangerous as if they follow they spawn almost immediately along with you after the load in front of the door. If they don't follow then you can't kite them. OTOH Malkoran from Meridia's quest was very much in an anti-cheese battlefield of this sort.


    That said, even though level-scaling means that the game is beatable by anyone, it also means that people who don't pay mind to character building will be much less efficient and will find themselves often in frustrating situations, because the enemies they face will have a higher score on their preferred offensive skill than the jack of all trades player who increased many things unevenly. For and RPG, Skyrim's character system is very easy to learn. You simply invest your points in perks, make sure your skills are at a proper level, and that's it. The only requirement, as in all RPG char-systems is that you have a plan and stick to it. Are you going to be a sword and board fighter? Put points on one-handed, shield, and armor - maybe crafting too, though I have found it more efficient to put enough only to get enhanced steel armor earlier on, and then focusing on armor/one-handed/shield later since all of those require lots of points. You wanna be a stealth archer? Put points in archery, stealth, and maaaybe light armor(depends on whether you plan on getting hit at all or going full Parthian with hit and run tactics). Mages are a bit more complex as there are different schools, and some synergize well with others, but again, so long as you specialize in something you should be fine. However, the system does not straitjacket you if you know what you are doing, and in fact does encourage hybrids, you simply have to have a feel for the system and know what goes well with what.

    Also, keep in mind that apart from perks, you also gotta keep an eye on skills and on what skills you are using. Try to keep usage of skills that are not essential to your tactics at a minimum(the exceptions being stuff like lockpicking and whatnot), so that you only level up when your "core" skills are up to snuff and it suits you to trigger the global scaling. If one of your essential skills falls too far behind at some point, try to tweak your tactics a bit so that it catches up to the others. For example, if running a stealth archer and your archery skill falls behind your stealth skill(happens often), start being more offensive and proactive and shooting more, sneaking less - though within reason of course. It is a question of emphasis rather than switching tactics altogether. NPC trainers also help a lot with this if you have the spare cash. Perks help a lot to compensate for this issue when it happens, as the basic perk of many trees is usually a 20% increase in the effectiveness of the skill, but ultimately you usually want to reach 100 with those skills that are the backbone of your overall game strategy. There are exceptions such as those skills that don't benefit that much from leveling up in some circumstances, such as some of the magic schools in some conditions: for example if you can craft 100% magicka cost-reduction armor (e.g. free spellcasting) by maxing enchanting, a lot of magic school trees and skill scores become largely redundant, as their main draw is to reduce magicka costs. For the most part, though, it is good practice to get your essential skills up there.

    My favorite build, which I use for permadeath Legendary runs to good effect, is the stealth conjurer. In fact he has stuff from a few perk trees and needs no enchanting or smithing. He mainly uses conjuration(summoning monsters) to deal damage, and stealth to avoid damage. Archery and Illusion are also used as support. Archery because it allows me to draw enemies into my summon trap, and also help the summon do damage sometimes(also, conjuration allows me to summon a powerful bound bow without messing with smithing or anything) , and illusion for the silent casting perk(I cast my summoning spells without giving away my location and just drop em on enemy groups and scram), and also for the muffle spell which mutes the sound of my steps. I don't even have to invest on magicka, just stamina(to run away when detected or escape with silent roll), because all I need is some equipment that gives me magicka/reduces magicka requirements for my spells, plus the perks that reduce magicka requirements for my school of choice. This build, like all stealth, does require the knowledge of the terrain and dungeon/fort layouts that comes with multiple playthroughs though(plus it is low on health investment rather than stamina cause it assumes the user can effectively flee/extricate himself from most situations). If you wanna try it go ahead, but I'd recommend pumping health a bit along with stamina. But for a new player, a more traditional warrior build might be better, as this is a glass cannon build that relies on experience. Conjuration is also very powerful, in general, as the summons are quite strong, plus it is easy to synergize this perk tree with many others such as fighter or archer.

    The fact is, however, that if a jack of all trades can do no wrong then the odds of any specialized build(even the simple warrior) are even better, especially when crafting and enchanting are thrown in(anti-magic jewelry makes melee builds a breeze). If not, don't be shy about buying enchanted gear, it is expensive but worth it. Buy stuff that piles up with whatever you are specializing, or simply go with magic defense as that always helps. In fact using your money on enchanted(or simply stronger if you are dumping smithing) armor and jewelry is probably a better long term investment than consumables, especially since the latter abound while looting. If you manage yourself well and only use them when you are in a spot, and you make sure you clean places for loot, you should always have some potions to spare even if you don't buy, especially since auto-regen takes care of whatever health gets chipped away by the easier fights. Also, generally refrain from hoarding money, spend on trainers, equipment, and jewelry liberally unless you plan to buy a house to store your stuff, the cheapest one in Whiterun being the most practical.

    As someone pointed out above though, at the really high levels powergaming of some sort is practically required, especially at higher difficulties, as the HP bloat gets real.


    When all else fails you can just break the game by crafting regardless of build.


    If you are beyond level 21-23 and have beaten the Mehrunes' Razor quest, you should be able to(1) buy a weapon of banishment(usually at the fletcher in Solitude), (2) break it down for the banish enchant at the enchanting table, (3) buy soul gems and cheap iron weapons, (4) enchant them with banish, (5) sell them at a profit. This works because the banish enchant is the only one that allows you to enchant cheap stuff and sell it at a profit, while grinding your enchanting in the meantime and being able to buy more gems. This is even more efficient if you also craft iron daggers which you then enchant with Banish, as then you also grind the smithing skill. With this method you should get to 100 on smithing and enchanting quickly and be able to craft/enchant equipment that will absolutely make you overpowered(Protip: if you save, kill a vendor npc and reload, he will have the money restored so you can just endlessly sell him banish daggers without moving from city to city). This is very cheesy/grindy but if you just wanna explore and feel invincible it is a way to go, but takes a lot of grinding. Apart from this and learning to build your char, the only other alternative is lowering the difficulty or console/mod cheating.

    Also you mentioned focusing on defensive skills. I don't really recommend it at all, you already potentially get a free defensive stat as you level up(health), and the problem with enemy scaling is not so much the damage they do to you, but that as they scale you lose the ability to damage them significantly due to hp bloat. That is why maximizing damage output is essential. As I said, it is also very easy to simply flee in this game, epecially in the overworld(trees, rocks, rivers, and broken terrain of all sorts everywhere that allow you to easily break line of sight and slow pursuers down). All of that plus the availability of potions. Crafting can also help with defense(though that does require some perk investment). Overall prioritize a source of damage dealing, and put any spare points on armor or smithing when you have nothing to pick in your offensive tree, or simply when you feel you need to throw defense a bone. Ultimately it all depends on your experience, do you feel too squishy? Or too wimpy? Allocate accordingly, but all things being equal, damage output is the priority. Also, there is a cap to armor rating, which is 567. After that, any investment in armor rating is a waste. If your smithing skill is high enough you don't even need to invest on smithing perks, as simply enhancing your iron/steel armor with a higher smithing skill score will make it stronger, though you would still have to grind smithing somehow(which costs money, for example buying iron ingots and leather strips to spam iron daggers - the most efficient way to smith-grind). Potions of smithing also allow you to enhance armor further. Through a combination of smithing skill grind, potions of smithing, and armor perks, reaching the cap with even basic heavy armors is not that hard( a bit harder with light armors).
    Last edited by Herakleios; July 20, 2017 at 10:17 AM.

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