Page 8 of 23 FirstFirst 123456789101112131415161718 ... LastLast
Results 141 to 160 of 450

Thread: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

  1. #141

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Castrate? Whos talking about that?

    Varangians are in it but in kind of its predecessor form called "Saxon Huscarls" at game start. They develop into varangians later on

    Feudal knights are not in there at game start because the armor they're using (especially the helmet) was developed later on. So its mailed knights developing into feudal knights developing into chivalric knights.

    This kind of development-style might not produce totally accurate unit names, but for the player its much more exciting to get a new unit to play with once in a while, rather than playing with the same units just with different upgrades all game long.

  2. #142
    Tiro
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    245

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    @MWY ok about Varangians, although if i'm not wrong they should already be represented as guard in 12th century. And what about palace guard or noble cavalry unit which are only on higher tiers(I don't remember exact names..)? Isn't that castration?

    Also, please explain me how that development works in this mod.
    Do all factions share the same dates or each faction gets specific units independently? For example, will Mailed Knight develop into Feudal knight the same year Georgian units with tear-shaped shields develop into round shields? Or each of them will have his own specific date of development?
    Last edited by Levan; July 07, 2017 at 12:08 PM.

  3. #143
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
    Patrician Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    City of Jan Baert
    Posts
    13,950
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Just a precision on that subject: SSHIP is based on Stainless Steel. As such, we have the good and the bad sides of SS. Several features have already been corrected/adjusted but there are still many to be done.

    Regarding the ERE roster, nikossaiz is working on it. You can see some of his units in that thread (the few last pages). As MWY mentionned, some names might not be accurate but we're on it.
    There are many rosters not accurate actually in game but we can't correct them in one shot. It takes times. For instance, beside nikossaiz working on ERE and obviously jurcek on KoG (thanks to him for his help), I'm currently on the Norse (Norway and Denmark) and Scottish rosters. Actually, the current work on Georgia wasn't originally planned for now but, well, life is full of surprises

    Finally, to answer to your last question, it depends. In some cases, the upgrade/update is tied to a general event and concerns many factions. Sometimes, it only concerns a few. Both options are available depending on the need
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  4. #144
    Khevsur's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Kingdom of Georgia
    Posts
    1,182

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Svan and Metsikhovne Warriors







    Last edited by Khevsur; July 08, 2017 at 07:57 AM.

  5. #145

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    @Levan: Its not castration, its giving the player the ability to develop the unit roster of his faction over time. I don't even know what you mean with higher tiers. That units are available later on or by having advanced buildings? How boring would it be to the player if he had the ability to build everything his faction will every be able to build at game start? Besides, for byzantium its a bit of a special case since we have some units which arent that accurate in there for this timeframe I think. For all the other factions, we have a system based on ingame events which unlock more advanced units within the timeframe they were really developed.

  6. #146
    Tiro
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    245

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    @MWY In "tiers" i mean periods(like early, high and late in medieval 2 custom battles). Term "tier" is used is Medieval Kingdoms and other Attila mods, sorry for using it here, i just got used to.
    As for Byzantine Empire, not only units are inaccurate. Some elite units, which should be accessible right from the start by just constructing advanced buildings, are available only after events in later centuries which is simply unhistorical. Those events in many cases should be changing only their equipment. I guess it was done for gameplay and balance but such problems should be solved without touching historical accuracy, in my opinion.
    Last edited by Levan; July 08, 2017 at 07:58 AM.

  7. #147
    Khevsur's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Kingdom of Georgia
    Posts
    1,182

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Chukhchi - Georgian Kings Guard 12-13 century

    Last edited by Khevsur; July 09, 2017 at 05:31 AM.

  8. #148

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Quote Originally Posted by Khevsur View Post
    my Demo Sketch
    So, Chukhchari/Chukhchebi (i dunno which is right, lul) isn't just exist, but also important? They'll good to be late tier anti armor/anti cavalry

    Is "Herovani" (a mounted skirmisher, i saw your artwork in Dominion of The Sword thread) also important too? Just asking

  9. #149
    Tiro
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    245

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Chukhchari was head of king's personal guard. Chukhchebi is plural form of Chukhchi(King's guardsman).
    Forget about Herovani. It is almost fantasy unit.
    Last edited by Levan; July 08, 2017 at 08:48 AM.

  10. #150
    Khevsur's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Kingdom of Georgia
    Posts
    1,182

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Levan
    yes Chukhchi Guard. Chukchari is Head
    Last edited by Khevsur; July 08, 2017 at 09:02 AM.

  11. #151

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    @Levan: In later centuries? Okay, can you name those units together with a suggestion how implement them differently? Almost all of byzantiums units are available from gamestart, which is a big problem considering its development into later stages of a game.
    And in the course of time, units can change their combat style, their equipment, their skill, their unit type, etc. Its not really accurate to represent this via a simple armor upgrade (which increases armor by exactly 2) either.

  12. #152
    Tiro
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    245

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    @MWY I could check the units in the game, because i don't remember, and write couple suggestions but nah, i will chill and focus on KOG. As Lifth said Byzantine Empire is already being reworked and as i see they have done a great job already, so there is no need in my suggestions. Lets end this discussion here.

  13. #153
    Khevsur's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Kingdom of Georgia
    Posts
    1,182

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)


  14. #154
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
    Patrician Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    City of Jan Baert
    Posts
    13,950
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Interesting document
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  15. #155
    Khevsur's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Kingdom of Georgia
    Posts
    1,182

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    about Georgian Cavalry
    https://www.mediafire.com/?2biaj7rmdt5eamk


    about Georgian Swords
    https://www.mediafire.com/?t2y5oenr3bkmyu6


    about Georgian Lamelar and Scale armor ( better version, all image )
    https://www.mediafire.com/?6hjkvdkjabhobb7

    about Georgian Helmets
    https://www.mediafire.com/?az9hrr5cifrbaah

    about Georgian Poliorcetica
    https://www.mediafire.com/?xs3cqsgcifg4j6b


    about Georgian Shields ( sorry , not found english version)
    http://georgians-weapons.com/Mamuka%...-%20farebi.pdf

    Georgian shield boss
    Last edited by Khevsur; July 11, 2017 at 07:07 AM.

  16. #156
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
    Patrician Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    City of Jan Baert
    Posts
    13,950
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Thanks Khevsur.

    Regarding Ani, I think that it will stay independant at the game start. It seems, according to Wikipedia, that the city was governed by the Shaddadids, a Muslim Kurdish dynasty. Despite the fact that the KoG conquered it 4 times (1124, 1161, 1174, 1199), the Shaddadids managed to take it back the 3 first times.
    So, the idea is to leave it independant. Though, I'll probably change the religion rate in it (less Muslims and more Orthodoxes for now) in order to make it more "controlable" if conquered.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  17. #157
    Tiro
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    245

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    @Lifth then it should be part of Georgia in High Era Campaign. Btw, if you leave Ani independent in Early Era, then you should take away many provinces from other factions too.
    The idea is that you made unfair decision.

    Religion should be 80% Christian.
    Last edited by Levan; July 11, 2017 at 10:17 AM.

  18. #158
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
    Patrician Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    City of Jan Baert
    Posts
    13,950
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Unless you can provide sources stating the contrary, Ani wasn't part of the KoG in 1132AD. Basically, if we want to be really accurate, that province should be splitted in 2, from North to South, just in West of Ani. The West part would belong to Georgia while the East part would belong to the Shaddadids. That's what I've found so far but if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  19. #159
    Tiro
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    245

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    If the city was ruled by Shaddadids, that doesn't mean it was always independent. The city was ruled by this guy from 1131 to 1155. Fakr was vassal of Georgia and did want to revolt, so he asked for daughter's hand of Saltuk II, ruler of Erzurum. Then there was a plot. At the end, we can say that Fakr was and remained vassal of Georgia until he was replaced by his brother.
    Also, population of Ani, including nobles, was favoring Georgia and large part of Armenia belonged to KOG without vassalage. So why this region should be independent if one half belonged to Georgia and the other half was vassal? You should also note that in 1138 Ganja was conquered by King Demetre I after Muslim rebellion, so if Ani already was rebel in 1132 why the king didn't try to recapture it until 1161?
    Last edited by Levan; July 13, 2017 at 03:14 PM.

  20. #160
    Tiro
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    245

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Chukhchi Guard

    Chukhchs were bodyguards of the king. Unlike Tadzreuli, which means guard of the palace, Chukhchi must have been term used only in the royal court because we know that there was a royal title "Chukhchari" which means chief of Chukhchs. Also the King/Queen most likely had both Tadzreuls and Chukhchs because both are mentioned in sources of same period. Probably Chukhchs were a few dozen personal guards of the king while royal Tadzreuls were more numerous guarding the palace, royal family, court and also performing the role of a royal force. High nobles had own Tadzreuls as well.
    Me and Khevsur decided to suggest adding the Chukhchs as two handed axe elite infantry and also, if possible, as cavalry which will be only king's guard with 1h axe/lance.

    According to Georgian historian Mamuka Tsurtsumia(those links belong to him), two handed axes were spread after contact with Varangians and by depictions we know that viking 2h axe was used at least until 14th century.

    Spoiler for Viking style 2h axe




    Spoiler for more of them




    Here are guards of the king with axes:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    According to the same source, one handed axe was much less popular than swords or maces what was assumed after analyzing several Medieval sources but we do have writings where cavalry hatchets are mentioned, for example: "In 1049, in the battle with Turks Liparit had hatchet"(Stephen Orbelian). So, giving some hatchets to the cavalry is justified.

    Their armor should look quite similar to Tadzreuls' armor as Khevsur drew. You could also add lamellar on shoulders and lower part of the body like in the link of Khevsur's last post.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Also like this:




    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    As you see Khevsur also added nose cover to the helmet of Chukhchi. The thing is that there was some rules in Orthodox iconography. For example Saints never wear helmets on depictions because they have halos. The second unfortunate rule was that the faces must have been open. So, you won't find a fresco, Georgian or Greek, where warrior has nose cover or chainmail mask while wearing the helmet. Although, not every helmet is depicted on the heads of warriors. So, those which aren't, appears to have nose cover and the mask!
    Like this helmet is drawn without nose cover in one depiction but in the other the exact helmet of the exact same character is depicted with it:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Here we see that helmets of all warriors are open:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    But as soon as the character takes the helmet of the head, phew, it has face mask.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    So, adding some early period Georgian egg-shaped helmets with fixed nose cover is justified. Also, some face masks would be ok too. As for late period helmets, we already know that they had nose covers. I suggest Khevsur's links for more info.
    Here is in which period you should use each Georgian helmet:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Last edited by Levan; July 12, 2017 at 10:32 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •