Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

[j.a.luna]

Good election about incorporate an unique building for georgians, also i would like to see the same for russians (Santa Sophia cathedral for Kiev or Novgorod)

[Levan]

Svan Units

Svans are Western Georgian highlanders who had many differences from other Georgians because of millennial isolation. They were less influenced by feudal system and rarely had conflicts with lowland brothers, although many families were exterminated with their custom of vendetta. They were known as excellent skirmishers but, on the other hand, they had heavier equipment than lowland commoners. Also, in Medieval centuries, Svans must have become more open to neighbors because, according to sources, their clothing was very similar to others' and they had also adopted crossbows, the oldest sample found is dated as 13-14th centuries.


Shields
Svan shields:

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Modern Reconstruction:

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Helmets
They should have various mail coifs - one covering the throat, the second only head and neck. They shouldn't have "Svan hats" which belong to later centuries.

Body Armor
On tiers 2-3 they should have some chainmail tunics. On tier 1 you can go only with commoner clothes, fur and mail coifs.
Tier 2-3 Svan warrior:

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Tier 1 Svan warrior(ignore weapons):

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Weapons
They should have standard bows on Tier 1 and composite bows on tiers 2-3.

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Archers should have Georgian straight sword and shield as secondary weapon. For crossbowmen you can go without shields.

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Svan crossbows:

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13-14th century

[wojtekimbier]

Wow guys the map changes look incredible, so much more stuff going on with added mountains, forests. Love the attempt at accuracy

[Lifthrasir]

@ j.a.luna, I'm just looking at the option of unique building. However, if implemented, not all of them would bring bonus (for gameplay)

@ Levan, I'm in favor to use the Gelati Monastery because it might be useful to JoC for his General Education mod. I'm waiting for his input as well
Bath house added. Regarding religion, I've removed Islam and have added Catholic (5% to reflect the Western knights sent from Edessa to help David IV against the Seljuks). I keep Pagan and Heretics as well (5% each) as I can't put 100% Orthodox but if you have a better proposal, feel free to tell me
I've updated the post accordingly.

About Tbilissi, I read that it was also an important stop of the Silk Road. Is that right?

About Ani, the more I read about KoG history, the more I'm in favor to add it to that faction right at the start. Most of the maps I've found for the Golden Age of KoG shows Ani as part of it (some of the later period as well). Considering also that Armenians helped Georgians against Seljuks, that also makes me in favor.

@ wojtekimbier, thanks for your kind words. We're doing our best.

[Levan]

Well, 5% or more heretic population in each region is very questionable. My proposal is to add Judaism and also branches of Muslims an Christians for the sake of historical accuracy and the name of this sub-mod.
Also, i doubt that 100 knights made 5% of the population Catholic but that is a genius idea, i like it.

Centuries before the game starts, Tbilisi started to grow as a regional trading and industrial center thanks to both Georgian Kings and more importantly Arabs. Probably that is the main reason why Tbilisi fell last to King David the Builder. The fact that it was the only city controlled by Arabs in the region back then, says much. Probably, it was large enough to be independent while being surrounded by Seljuks and later strengthened Georgia. Also, wealthy enough for Arabs not to give up. Tbilisi had multinational population - Georgians, Armenians, Muslims and Jews, no other city had such diversity nearer than Jerusalem. Georgian Kings knew value of the city with its population and after liberation they didn't touch Muslims. Even more, Christians were paying 5 Denars of tax, Jews 4 Denars and Muslims only 3 Denars and they also could pray in their mosques without limitations. Many Muslim historians of those and later centuries admit tolerant behavior of Georgian Kings.
Such politics and also one of the silk roads going through the Kingdom made Tbilisi one of the most prosperous and largest cities of Middle East.

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Lastly, why you write Tbilissi and Kutaissi? Does it mean emphasis of "s"? If so, then you should know that we, Georgians, don't put pressure on sounds. But maybe English "s" is too soft? idk.

[Lifthrasir]

Adding religions need quite some work as I will have to check the 199 provinces in the games. I'm just trying to find some compromise for a short term period and until I'm able to review that religion point
So yes, 100 or 200 Christian knights were probably not equal to 5% of West Georgia population but that's the only "excuse" I could find to justify 5% of Catholics

Regarding settlements names, I use the double "s" because that's how it is in game now. However, I keep seing these names with only 1 "s" and there might be a spelling mistake here. That's why I wrote "or Kutaisi" in the post dedicated to that settlement. I'm even wondering if T'bilisi is not more correct. Though, I'm not sure that the game will accept that

[Levan]

Those upper commas, like in T'bilisi and Mep'e(king), mean that the sound before them should be pronounced softly. That is completely unnecessary for native English speakers because they pronounce literally everything softly. But for example, if you are a Russian speaker then for you there is a big difference between English soft "p"(it sounds as "ph" in reality) and Russian true "p", same for "t". That's why i said a while ago that the guy who used those upper commas is a genius. But i don't get why there is double "s".

[jurcek1987]

Sorry about the delay, I had some computer issues

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[Levan]

They are excellent! Also, you don't have to excuse about delay, good roster needs much time.

One thing i would change is the helmet in the third picture. I guess, that's imported helmet, it should have metal ball on top instead of spike, just like in the pictures.

Everything else is very accurate but we need some changes to make Monaspa and Aznauri significantly different (some of those models would be better for Aznauri ).
Lets give chain mail on arms and legs only to Aznauri. Monaspa will have chain T-shirt and clothes on arms and legs. Also you should add some Monaspa models which won't have lamellar on shoulders, instead the T-shirt will cover them. Like this:

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[Lifthrasir]

Good stuff jurcek

[jurcek1987]

Thanks . These are just Milkshape screenshots, units will look better in the game.

Ok so I should make all bodies with short sleeved mail and without lamellar on upper arms?

Yeah all helmets are imported from Rusichi but they can be adjusted.

[Levan]

Ok so I should make all bodies with short sleeved mail and without lamellar on upper arms?

Yes for Monaspa.

Also lets use only those Rus/Kypchak helmets which we know were imported in Georgia(maybe you can take some from Medieval Kingdoms?).

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Use this Kypchak chain mail, with leather stripes on the chest, too.

according to the book, Georgians added metal ball on the top of this Rus helmet:

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Like in this black and white fresco:

I think, 2/3 of Monaspa should have foreign helmets while Aznauri will have only Georgian helmets.

[jurcek1987]

So I add a ball to the third helmet and it's good to use? What about the fourth one, it's the closest one I could find in Rusichi to the you pointed in that Medieval Kingdoms screenshot. I think I also saw the one on the right in the first pic and I'll try and create the one in the second pic. So there will be 2 Georgian helmets and 4 foreign ones. And I'll make one body like in that pic yes.

[Khevsur]

Jureck1987
I have a note

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[Levan]

Yes just adding the ball will be ok. Here is another one:

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I suggest to remove the Rusichi helmet because it has nose cover and also i don't really like its top.

[jurcek1987]

Khevsur, noted, will adjust both helmets. You are being very nitpicky about the lamellar texture . I'll try and adjust it. As for the shoulder armour, we agreed to remove it from Monaspa.

Levan, they're all Rusichi helmets . I take it you mean the fourth one, will remove it and try to find something more suitable

[Levan]

Khevsur is nitpicky but accurate. In the picture the lamellar plates are covering each other like Greek hoplites in shield wall. We can ignore that detail but yeah, in reality that would make a difference.
Also, he agrees about shoulders, he just posted how it should be on Aznauri units.

P.S.
What i write sometimes are his words. He doesn't know English well.

[Khevsur]

Jurcek1987
please use it georgian beard style

[Lifthrasir]

Khevsur is nitpicky but accurate. In the picture the lamellar plates are covering each other like Greek hoplites in shield wall. We can ignore that detail but yeah, in reality that would make a difference.
Also, he agrees about shoulders, he just posted how it should be on Aznauri units.

P.S.
What i write sometimes are his words. He doesn't know English well.

Yep. To have followed the discussion about Georgia in MKTW forum, I know the Khevsur is very pedantic but as said, very accurate as well. I confirm also that his English is not that good and that his posts can be misunderstood sometimes
But all in all, his inputs, and Levan's one btw, are very valuable. I really appreciate that guys

[Levan]

@Lift why some factions are missing historical units on tier 1? For example, Varangians and others for Byzantine Empire. Should we castrate Georgia so heavily too? Wouldn't it be better to have all historical units but hard to get if needed?
Also, why there are no Feudal Knights for European factions on tier 1?