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Thread: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

  1. #101
    Tiro
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Mtieli Swordsmen

    Unlike other Georgians, Mtiels didn't have any kind of feudalism. They had tribal society ruled by elders. This was the main reason, why each of them could afford more or less the same equipment and Caucasus Mountains, rich with iron ores, was giving them opportunity to have fine armor and swords.

    Current unit "Khevsur Heavy Swordsmen" is inaccurate mostly because it is based on later centuries.

    Shields
    They should have medium size shields reinforced with leather and metal pieces on all tiers. Current small shields belong to 1550 AD and later(gunpowder era).
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    Helmets
    They shouldn't have helmets. Misiurkas, which they currently have, got spread from 17th century. Mtiels should have mail coifs covering everything except the face. They probably didn't have chainmail masks because without fixing them on Misiurka it would be uncomfortable.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Body Armor
    They should have chain mail tunics. On tier 2-3 units you could add chain on arms and on legs on tier 3.
    Also on legs they could sometimes wear fur.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    This is old picture and a little inaccurate, he shouldn't have Misiurka helmet:


    They should have such legs too:



    Swords
    They should have straight swords on tiers 1-2 and curved swords on tier 3.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Straight:





    Curved:



    Last edited by Levan; July 05, 2017 at 04:48 AM.

  2. #102
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    I want a hat like that

    More seriously, the shield should be about 1 meter diameter, right?
    If wearing that hat, I guess they couldn't have a coif (or camail). In that case, could an aventail like below be ok (not sure it's accurate btw )?

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    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  3. #103
    Tiro
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Sorry Lifth, I had to delete those hats because according to some sources they were used from 17th century. But what did they wear in 6 month winters surrounded by sheep then?

    They should have medium size shields like cavalry. 1 meter is for Metsikhovne i guess.

    I can't find aventails even on later Mtiels, so no, lets use only mail coifs.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    End of 19th century




    Edit:
    This should be 1 meter which looks too large for Mtiels:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Last edited by Levan; July 01, 2017 at 03:48 PM.

  4. #104
    Khevsur's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Mtieli, Metsikhovne and Levy warrior also have this type chain coif


  5. #105
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    So the shields should be a kind of targe

    Below, the latest map changes:

    - Kutaissi province:


    I've put the roads just for info. That settlement won't start with them in game. Regarding the forests, I've done all I could but that's the best result I can get or the road to Trebizon disappear.
    Kutaissi is a large town and I know that the wooden walls aren't accurate. Unfortunately, all large town models on strat map have wooden walls. So it will stay that way for now and until I find another way to do it

    - Tbilissi province:


    The eastern passage through Greater Caucasus has been closed. The wine resource is slightly more visible now.

    - General view of the area updated:



    If the map is fine, I'll make some tests with and without Ani belonging to Georgia to see how it works.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  6. #106
    Tiro
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    @Lifth yes, Mtiels' shields should be flat and have radial and concentric reinforcements.

    The map is excellent but you could also add road from Kutaisi to Tmurtarakan. I guess the shore in Abkhazia is too narrow, so there is no place for road.
    Last edited by Levan; July 02, 2017 at 03:44 AM.

  7. #107

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    So the shields should be a kind of targe

    Kutaissi is a large town and I know that the wooden walls aren't accurate. Unfortunately, all large town models on strat map have wooden walls. So it will stay that way for now and until I find another way to do it
    Can it become a pseudo-minor city, or i can say a minor city with underdeveloped building and few population, like Tbilisi Citadel with base level building?

  8. #108
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    @ Levan, again, I have no control on roads. Even if I make the shore larger, it's not even sure that the game would create a road there. So, I won't spend more time for a non-guaranted result.

    @ umbracatervae777, I was thinking the same and that could be a solution. I need to test it.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  9. #109
    Tiro
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Ok Lifth, current map is excellent for the final version. I appreciate your suffering, lets move on other things.

  10. #110

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Quote Originally Posted by umbracatervae777 View Post
    Can it become a pseudo-minor city, or i can say a minor city with underdeveloped building and few population, like Tbilisi Citadel with base level building?
    Yes, this can be a good idea for represent it,i also agree
    The current georgian map is soo cool, congratulations!
    The next step are the georgian units...i wish see the work of jurcek about units
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  11. #111
    jurcek1987's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Monaspa first attempt

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    If I understood correctly these are cavalry with lance/sword combo and there should also be a dismounted version with bows?

  12. #112
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Nice stuff.
    If I refer to the pics posted by Levan (here), I'd make the lamellar parts smaller and slightly more tied together and the shield should be a bit longer and thinner
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  13. #113
    jurcek1987's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Shields are currently placeholders. I plan to use textures from Medieval Kingdoms once they're available. As for lamellar, they'll be several different cuirasses with different textures and sizes. The one above looks similar in size to this one

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  14. #114
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Might be just me but my view for that one (armour) is more similar to this (even if that's a byzantine one ):

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    Last edited by Lifthrasir; July 03, 2017 at 07:33 AM.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  15. #115
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    @Jurcek looks good indeed. Yes, Monaspa were lancers and we are considering to remove archer Monaspa for gameplay and historical reasons. So, focus on lance/sword.

    As Lifth said lamellar plates should be much smaller. That painting of Khevsur is very old(2015). He improved his skills after that and i recommend to use either frescoes or only those paintings and pictures which i post.
    Some shields in Medieval Kingdoms are reinforced with metal too much, so i suggest to take textures from there based on my posts.

    Monaspa wouldn't have expensive cloth cloaks, they shouldn't really look too wealthy, so save it for Tadzreuli and Aznauri. Warriors with lamellar armor should have plate spaulders on shoulders like in pictures. And half of the models of Monaspa should be in chainmail/eastern lamellar or with Kypchak/Rus helmets like i posted. Many of those are well represented in Medieval Kingdoms:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Edit:
    Textures should be available already. If i'm not wrong, Ltd has them uploaded somewhere. PM him and he will tell you.
    Last edited by Levan; July 03, 2017 at 10:10 AM.

  16. #116
    Khevsur's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    jurcek1987

    please, use my drawn shields and Georgian frescoes posted here.
    Last edited by Khevsur; July 03, 2017 at 09:18 AM.

  17. #117
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Below, a small adjustment: Kutaissi with stone walls:



    I'm currently "polishing" the map by implementing different figures. I'm looking for information such as population, religion and settlement level for Kutaissi, Tbilissi and Ani.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  18. #118
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Some ideas about the KoG regions:

    Kutaissi - Imereti Province ... or Kutaisi

    That settlement will be a minor city (to get the stone walls) but with a large town level basically. The idea is to reflect the fact that it used to be the capital of KoG (prior to Tbilissi reconquest in 1122 AD).
    The settlement will have the following buildings:
    • town watch
    • town hall
    • brothel
    • orthodox abbey
    • market
    • farm
    • bath house
    • Gelati Monastery (interesting for JoC's education mod - more info here) - to be implemented


    Religions (left untouched for now):

    • Catholic: 5%
    • Heretic: 5%
    • Orthodox: 85%
    • Pagan: 5%


    Character:
    • Davit Bagrationi (left untouched for now)
    • Metiskhovne Spearmen (medium spearmen) x1
    • Kartlian Spearmen (light spearmen) x1

    Last edited by Lifthrasir; July 18, 2017 at 04:16 AM. Reason: updated
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  19. #119
    Tiro
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    @Lifth

    I'm not an expert, so you should decide about the buildings. I will just say that there must have been bath houses in Kutaisi.

    Will there be unique buildings in important cities? If so, then Bagrati Cathedral is a good choice. There was also Gelati Monastery and Academy complex which was built by David IV the Builder but unfortunately academy hasn't remained.
    For Tbilisi you should go with Svetitskhoveli Cathedral. Which, in my opinion, is the most iconic building of Georgian Architecture.

    In Imereti Region there should be literally 0% Muslim population. Also there were no Pagans in Western Georgia in this period.
    You should add 10% Muslim in Tbilisi region and also 10% Pagan because many Mtiels didn't accept Christianity(I forgot it in previous post).

    Another reason to start with Ani region is that KOG has generals only from royal family. We need 4th General - Sumbat Orbeli who was Amirspasalari(chief-commander).
    Last edited by Levan; July 04, 2017 at 05:36 PM.

  20. #120
    Khevsur's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Levan

    I agree

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