Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

[Levan]

Now lets finally start discussing the units. Since the mod covers 4 centuries, it is recommended to create 3 tiers like in MKTW. But of course you should start with the first and then time will show..
Firstly i will write general list with their tiers and later i will review each of them.

T1 --------------------------------------------> T2 -------------------------------------------> T3

Guard
Tadzreuli Guard -----------------------------> Tier 2 upgrade -----------------------------> Tier 3 upgrade
Monaspa Guard -----------------------------> Tier 2 upgrade -----------------------------> None

Cavalry
Tadzreuli Lancers ---------------------------> Tier 2 upgrade -----------------------------> Tier 3 upgrade
Aznauri Lancers-----------------------------> Tier 2 upgrade -----------------------------> Tier 3 upgrade
Monaspa Lancers ---------------------------> Tier 2 Upgrade ----------------------------> None
Monaspa Horse Archers--------------------> Tier 2 Upgrade ----------------------------> None
Msakhureuli Cavalry------------------------> Tier 2 upgrade ----------------------------> Tier 3 upgrade
Kypchak/Cuman Medium HA --------------> Tier 2 upgrade ----------------------------> None
Kypchak/Cuman Light HA -----------------> Tier 2 upgrade ----------------------------> None

Infantry
Dismounted Tadzreuli ---------------------> Tier 2 upgrade ----------------------------> Tier 3 upgrade
Dismounted Aznauri ----------------------> Tier 2 upgrade ----------------------------> Tier 3 upgrade
Mtieli Swordsmen ------------------------> Tier 2 upgrade ----------------------------> Tier 3 upgrade
Metsikhovne Spearmen ------------------> Tier 2 upgrade ---------------------------> Tier 3 upgrade
Glekhi Spearmen ------------------------> Tier 2 upgrade ---------------------------> Tier 3 upgrade

Marksmen
Dismounted Monaspa -------------------> Tier 2 upgrade ---------------------------> None
Metsikhovne Archers -------------------> Tier 2 upgrade ---------------------------> Tier 3 upgrade
Svan Archers ---------------------------> Tier 2 upgrade ---------------------------> Tier 3 upgrade
None ------------------------------------> Svan Crossbowmen ---------------------> Tier 3 upgrade

Notes:
Tier list you have posted is outdated and inaccurate, also there are missing units just for being "too heavy" for Tier 1.
I write "upgrade" but sometimes it is just a "change".
Where i write Lancers, i mean shock cavalry. But to be honest i dislike distinction by shock and melee.
Many have suggested to use only English words. I disagree because you can't call Templar or Palace Guard to Tadzreuli. Another example, Mtiels(Khevsurs) are only one group of Georgian Highlanders, you can't give them general name, Svans are highlanders too.
There are two guard units because Monaspa was guarding only the King while every high noble had his own Tadzreuli including royal family.
Lastly, In later centuries, after Mongol invasion, nobles started to carry composite bow as a secondary weapon. I guess we can't implement it in the game because they should already have lance and a sword/mace.

[umbracatervae777]

That's a nice detail for a roster list

[Jurand of Cracow]

Hi,
Good list indeed.
Me, personally, I like very much the idea of using the original, Georgian names.

I've got a few questions:
- I recall Tadzreuli being sort of religious-order guys. Was it such?
- Mtieli (Khevsur) - the whole discussion started with my remark on the Georgian roster, and I still don't know the answer "I don't understand the unit Khevsur Heavy Swordsmen. Khevsuretia is a small, montanious region in Georgia (today it's problaby a few thousands inhabitants) and I wonder if in the past it was possbile to recruit so many soldiers. I might be wrong though - maybe the definition of the region was different in the Middle Ages? I'm pretty convinced, however, that this unit should not be available outside Kartli (it's now available also in Kutaissi) unless we change the name and description (eg. to Georgian Highlanders?). Anyway, I think a historian on Georgia should have a voice (if he would be around)."

General comment:
- we need to keep the system simple: avoid duplication of the units used for the same reason. I've played BC2.4 as Rum and having 7 types of cavalry with strange names having no relation to the function on the battlefields was very annoying. I find one function - one unit approach to be better.
- in this context I wonder er what would be differences among lancers: Tadzreuli. Aznauri, Monaspa. -- and Metsichowne/Glekhi? -- and various archers? - Kypchak Medium and Light HA?
- what is "Msakhureuli Cavalry"? and those Glekhi?
- why Svan Crossbowmen? Were Swans particularly famour of their crossbows? (seems strange for the people living deep in the mountains to adopt such a high technology so fast - I'd expect rather city-dwellers)

To be answered in future:
- how does it compare to the current SSHIP Georgian roster? Which units can be easily renamed and re-described?
- how the historical events impact on the "generations" of the units? (well, I know the system concerning Polish troops - the generations of heavy troops are coming every, more-or-less, 100 turns).


@Lifth - if the current SSHIP upper part of Euphratus is actually Arsanias, then it's too much in the north - it should be on the southern side of the mountains to my mind. However, I do think of this part of the map (i.e. Armenian Highlandsa) as being organized around "corridors" of the rivers. The question is: how the battles look like? In the EBII most of lands are flat precisely to allow normals battles to happen, not on the steep slopes.

cheers
JoC

[Levan]

Hi JoC,
Firstly, Thank you for being interested.

Here are my Answers:
- Tadzreuli didn't have connection with the religion or Church at all. In modern Georgian Tadzari means Temple but in old Georgian it meant Palace as well. "Templar" is just a stupid direct translation. In fact, Tadzreuls were guards of high nobles and royal family. Each of them had at least a few dozens of them, of course in united army their number was several hundred. Why they aren't only bodyguard unit then? Because according to sources they were fighting on foot in siege battles when their superior equipment and strength was necessary and they were charging first where pushing power of mounted shock combat was needed. For me, personally, it would be frustrating to see them only as bodyguard unit mostly standing in rearguard.

- I opened the link and I got feeling that your statements are based on false stereotypes. I mean Georgia being less developed agriculturally or cities/castles being smaller and even wooden. Probably this is why you may think that 17 settlements in Iberia and 4 in southern Caucasus is ok. This could be one large discussion but i'll try to be short.
"Caucasus was not Egypt or Gaul where you can easily feed people. Too little rainfall, to weak soil (like only 15% territory around Lake Van was possibl to cultivate)"
You shouldn't even compare Georgia with Armenia, especially Van which isn't even Caucasus. These two are as different as Egypt and Libya. They are next to each other right? Even more, For the last couple only the river makes difference while you can distinguish vegetation of Georgia and Armenia in a glance.
Like Georgia, Azerbaijan is very fertile too, hotter but very fertile. They cultivate excellent melons, watermelons, etc.
"100.000 to 250.000 might have been possible for Constantinople but then - what do you think about 50.000 people in Ani or Derbent, somewhere at the end of the world"
At the end of the world? Are we talking about the same region? What do rivers - Tigris and Euphrates remind you? The first Civilizations or only ignorant terrorists? Do you know anything about Georgian Culture? Do you know that oldest remained Georgian Literatural work is 1500 years old? And how old is Georgian Alphabet, or Armenian? Google it. Do you know that Georgian Orthodox Culture was flourishing while Charlemagne didn't know how to read? Have you heard about Georgian Architecture(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svetitskhoveli_Cathedral), iconography, folk music and dancing, literature with its philosophy? I guess no. Unlike Many regions of "Civilization" Caucasus has never been end of the world since it is the only remaining piece of ancient civilizations in Middle East. Maybe you have heard of Colchis where Golden Fleece was kept. In your opinion, what did Argonauts actually take, what the Golden Fleece is the symbol of? Maybe it is the symbol of wealth and culture?
Have you heard about Georgian wine? did you know that Georgia has the most breeds of grape, even more than France, Spain, etc?
Did you know that rice was cultivated in Western Georgia at least in 13th Century while wheat remained dominant in Eastern Georgia? Rice was spread in Georgia probably by Silk Road traders(one of the main routes was going through the region). Have you seen how black Georgian earth is?
Did you know Tbilisi was built in 5th century as stone castle for the king and the population reached about a hundred thousand at the start of 13th century? How many Medieval cities would boast with that? Did you know that people had enough stone in the region to build stone walls for every major city and there are plenty of stone castles in Georgia for what chroniclers of Tamerlane compared invasion of Georgia to significantly larger India? Did you know according to Mongol accounts population of the whole Kingdom(including modern Armenia, etc.) was 10-12 million?

As for Khevsurs, the reason why we decided to call them "Mtieli" in MKTW was, as you said, the size of the region and also name being "unfair". In Eastern Georgian highlanders there are several tribes - Khevsurs, Tushs, Pshavs, Mtiuls, etc. So instead we called them Mtieli which means Highlander but only Eastern Georgian. We don't call Mtieli to Western Georgians or Scots. On the other hand, western Georgian highlanders are Svans, unlike the rest, their tribe is large and if not their unique custom of Vendetta they would be largest probably. You can restrict their recruitment if that's the direction the mod has taken.

Let me answer General comments too:
- In my opinion, one function - one unit approach is good to some extent. Shogun 2 had such aproach, did you like it? I didn't personally, although i love the game. It can kinda break immersion, so the best solution would be both in harmony - historical accuracy and balance by roles. Anyway KOG will follow your approach too. Almost every unit will either have unique role or will be noticeably different in strength/class.

- Tadzreuli - lamellar horse armor, swords and maces, etc.
Aznauri - various horse armor, swords and maces, etc.
Monaspa - no horse armor, swords, etc.
Metsikhovnes are regular professional troops with chain mail, helmets, etc.
Glekhi means peasant. They will have spear, shield and mail coif for some of them.
Difference between archers will be heaviness and class.

- "Kypchak Medium and Light HA?" I don't get what you mean but i will answer both possible meanings. HA means horse archer and again, difference between Light and Medium will be equipment and class.

- "Msakhureuli" means Servant. This was commoner social class who were given lands and were obliged to serve as cavalry because Aznaurs(noble military class) weren't too many. Since they weren't as wealthy, they had worse equpment, training, etc. They will be analogue of European Sergeants in the game.

- Svan crossbowmen: They were strange for me as well, to be honest ridiculous. But in the old thread of MKTW @Caucasian Iberia posted some sources, later another forumite asked Georgian military historian about them and he confirmed.. Why did they adopt it? I can't imagine why they needed it. Even lowlanders who used to face lamellar and later plated mail armor more frequently didn't think to adopt it, although they must have known about it.

I will discuss every unit in details. It will just take some time, not many.

- In my opinion no unit can be easily renamed. Each of the Broken Crescent units have at least one important inaccuracy. For example, Khevsurs have shields of later centuries. Many have much more.

@Lifthrasir I have downloaded the mod and i have to admit, the guy who wrote Georgian words and names with upper commas (') is just a genius. Native English speakers won't get it but still. Do you know who did that?
You should change the common borders of Kutaisi and Ani regions like in original SS and also in pictures i posted. I mean only Kutaisi region should share border with Trebizond.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Also the province "Armenian Highlands" is so deep in Anatolia.. You should just cut the province in half, give the western part to region next to it and leave only the eastern half. I know the mistake is fault of bloody limits but you can correct the borders right? Armenia under Trebizond is just false.

[Lifthrasir]

MWY will be happy with your kind words
He's the one who changed the names in SSHIP.

Noted about Armenia. I'll see what I can do.

Just a quick note about population: the current map and settlements size are based on the population rate in these regions at that time. Due to the lack of accurate records, mistakes can have been done. The other point is how to interprete the exisitng records? For instance, if you consider Paris at the end of the 13th century, its population is estimated around 200,000 inhabitants (for the most optimistic sources), making it as the largest city of Western Europe at that time. However, some others said that the population should not have exceeded 80,000 inhabitants, meaning a difference of 150%. So who's right and who's wrong?
I'm pretty sure that the problem remains the same for Georgia

[Jurand of Cracow]

Hi,

On the units:
- @Levan: thanks for clarifying Tadzreuili, very enlighting.
- the problem with Khevsur or with the other tribal designation is their territorial limitations. Khevsurs and Mtiuls only in Kartli, Svans in Egrisi. Was there a generic name for those who lived in the hilly countryside? How would those proud folks from the town call all the others, not-city dwellers? (or even the Scotts ;-)
- crossbowmen – I’m against calling them Svan in the SSHIP. I can’t find any reason for crossbows coming deep into the mountains first. I think we should keep them generic Urban Crossbows. I doubt the crossbow was the prime weapon in Georgia. If there’d be a better unit of crossbows I’d call them Metsihovne Crossbowmen.
- to my mind Kypchak HA might be two generations of HA: first light, and after 100 years medium. This would be good for the gameplay. (however, we should pay attention to what’s already in the SS: Steppe Kazachs, Aldari Druzhina – that might be too much of a good thing),

In general: keep in mind that the SS(HIP) has it’s own logic. For instance, feudal forces in several generations, available also from the cities. Or different classes of soldiers (Real Recruitment). We need to adjust the choice of the units (names) to this logic (eg. Msakhureuli indeed might be Seargants, ).

On the map:
- I agree with the extention as proposed by Levan. In this time Tao-Klarjeti was so important that it justifies attaching the strip. The question is how it will influence the income of the Trebizond province. Since it was rich due to the trade, I’d probably leave some connection.
- I think there should be only one pass over the Caucasus (Darjali Pass) and that one north of Kutaisi should be closed with the mountains (well, beautiful high mountains are there, in the Racha).
- given that the next region west of Armenian Highlands is Cappadokia, I think the map of the provine of Qualiqala (Theodosiopolis) should stay as it is.
- in general: I agree that having 17 provinces in Spain is unbalanced. But I believe it was done for the gameplay purposes (4 faction struggling there). Similar situation is in the Holy Land.

@Levan: On the stereotypes: I believe to have some knowledge on Georgia (my friends even hated me when I made them visiting museum in Vani, while my Georgian friends didn’t know it exists) so I take a path of not responding in details. I’m fully aware that in terms of culture the 12^th century was a heyday of Georgia, and the Georgian wine is to be applauded. However, my thinking of that number citied by the Mongolian sources and the number of inhabitants of Tbilisi in 13^th century is described in this post. I also may point that in the Spanish sources the number of the Polish and Lithuanian warriors at the battle of Tannenberg (1410) was said to be 5 million ;-)

Cheers
JoC

[Lifthrasir]

About the map, you also need to consider the gameplay. Leaving only 1 pass through Caucasus will basically make Georgia fully safe from the North. Due to the size of the steppes above, that's already the case somehow. Also taking into account that Ani will belong to Georgia right at the start, that means a boost to their incomes. My concern is that if not done correctly, these changes will make Georgia as a superpower in that area without any real opposition

[Jurand of Cracow]

Passes - agree.

Georgia starting position - actually I think both for the gameplay and historically, Ani shouldn't be part of Georgia at the beginning, let the playert take it.

This is actually the good example of what I find the weakest side of "historicity" of the M2TW games: what does it mean to control a territory? We mod and play as the ruler (player) is almost a god: he controls his subordinates, he gives orders which are followed, he recruits the troops. However, in reality it was not so: control of the people was heavily constrained. In M2TW there're two mechanismsm trying to imitate it: unrest of the settlements and loyalty of the generals. Additionally, in the Byg's Grim Reality IV and V there are additional elements: WC and PTF ancillaries and also the wealth of the nobles - all limiting the ability of the player to control them. In SSHIP the usurper system does it as well (and has a big potential if somebody decypher the mechanisms ;-), and MWY has envisaged the vassal system for the next version. in the EBII there's colonists' mechanism plus pre-defined constraints for governments.
Anyway, all of them allow player to create big empires through conquest while the most difficult thing was to control your people (starting with your sons).

In the case of Ani (and Shirvan): the Georgian king might have conquered it but what did it mean? Control? So what about this deal with sharing powers?
Please, read below.

[Ltd.]

I see that a lot has been said already in terms of units, and seeing that Khevsur and Levan already made their presence here, I might not be able to give that much useful additional info.
In my research I realised that the 12th c. KoG is in fact very similar to the 13th c. KoG , in terms of equipment at least.
I will release a preview (this time final) of the new georgian units soon so if anyone in this mod would like to use anything either as visual inspiration first, and then the actual models and textures once we release our next playable version over in MKTW (for Attila), then feel free to do so
I wish you guys good luck with this mod. Stainless Steel was one of my first and favorite mods back in the days when I used to play M2TW

[Jurand of Cracow]

Hi Ltd.
I see you're from Hungary (sensu medievalis). Maybe you've got some insights on my old questions: here and here ?
BTW, I've played Attila but I've came back to M2TW for I find the battles and campaigns more historical, hmm.
cheers
JoC

[Lifthrasir]

@ JoC, that's all the "beauty" of M2TW engine
Regarding Ani, I haven't decided yet and I understand your view. May be by giving quite a high unrest in Ani and some rebels in the region, that could do. I think it has to be tested anyway to see what would be the best. The problem is also for Tsibilitsi. If change as a large town, I think that it should appear "quite under developped", meaning that the player would have to rebuild most of the settlement's buildings to get full profit from it. However, the question would be: how this works when the faction is controlled by the AI (as the AI seems unable to "optimize" its settlements)?
Anyway, for now, I'm focusing on the map adjustments. Then, we can decide about the settlements (type, size, owner)

Btw, about the battles in mountaneous areas, they should be better in the next version than in the current one. I've adjusted the map heights. They should be more flat for more playability but not fully flat as in EBII It might requier additional adjustment in the future, depending on players' feedback (can't check all areas alone and by myself).

@ Ltd., thanks for your offer. Appreciate
If we use your work (even for visual inspiration only), credit will be given accordingly.

[Levan]

Ani
If the map was perfect, Ani should be vassal(independent for this game), while the largest chunk of Armenia should be part of KOG(like in the map i posted). So, partially JoC is right but at the end Georgia has to start with these 3 regions because Ani represents not only itself. Also Ani was vassal and definitely not independent state, so it is completely ok historically.
For gameplay, you could think about some solution but will this extra province really change anything? Player would take it very soon anyway. Also other factions have much more provinces, how would Georgia be overpowered? If we note a century after 1132, then Georgia should be strong faction in the Region by all means. Until Mongol invasion only Khwarezm would be stronger.

Borders
@Lift you should definitely do what i wrote about Kutaisi-Ani border. There were many provinces in Georgia but our general regions were 3: Eastern Georgia, Western Georgia and Southern Georgia. Basically 1/3 of historical Georgia is part of Ani region. You may think that it isn't as important.. then you should know that Southern Georgia was the wealthiest in 10-11 centuries. This is where unification of Georgia started by Bagrations. Today 80% of it is part of Turkey but don't judge by modern day. This is province of Meskhs(Mushks or Moschs if you have heard) who formed Georgian nation along with Proto-Georgians. The old Capital(until 5th c. and time to time after that) of ancient Iberia - Mtskheta got named after them.
Tbilisi - you should pronounce it as a native English speaker but read "i" as "ee". Like you say "Vladimir Putin".

@JoC
-
-I should make it clear, Mtiuli is just one tribe. Mtieli means Highlander("Mountainer" directly) all tribes of Eastern Georgian highlands were united under this name for the rest Georgians. For some reason Svans weren't called highlanders, they are just Svans. If somebody calls "Mtieli" to Afghanian highlander it will sound weird. Basically the word got more specific meaning over centuries. What i would call to Scot? "high-mountain land dweller", not "Mountainer". It's weird..
-when i review Svans, i will try to find the sources about crossbows. Lowlanders didn't use them probably because Nobles had Mongol Bows(I will review), also Byzantine composite bows, so probably they preferred those. And probably, much inferior hunting bows of highland Svans was the reason why they adopted it. I have some more arguments in my mind but lets leave it for later. Basically i didn't believe it either but people convinced me...
-Medium after 100 years? Then what about Monaspa horse archers who were mostly heavily armed Kypchaks? All units i posted on tier 1 should be there. They will just get better or little bit different equipment in later centuries. That is how things were historically.
Yeah i remember little about SS logic. I guess we should see the roster first and then it will be clearer how we should implement it in the game.

Lastly, i am glad you actually know many about my country. I have to agree that numbers are usually exaggerated but that means something you know? They probably had reasons for it, who would exaggerate things about unimportant or too small city or army? Also Mongols were probably the last who would exaggerate population because they needed those records for the business, i mean for the knowledge of vassal's army potential. Even though 10-12 million is too much, still population would be huge because before their invasion there was a whole century of flourish in Caucasus(KOG didn't lose a battle during that period).

[Lifthrasir]

Georgia can become easily overpowered in game because they would have full developped settlements, strong economy, strong units and no real threat beside them, all these right at the start of the game.
So, yes, I can adjust the map easily. I can also change Tbilisi (we pronounce it in the same way as you in French btw ) as a large town and give Ani to KoG at the start. However, I also need to find a way to counter balance that somehow to avoid an unhistorical blietzkrieg in that area. That's why I mentionned the possible option to reduce the level of development of Tbilisi (buildings not made or at their 1st level), that could also represent the recent conquest, and the unrest and rebel stack(s) in Ani province, to reflect the political situation there. That should limit the human player to expand too quickly. However, the question for the AI (playing as KoG) remains.

[Levan]

Is it possible to give AI Georgia more money(some script)? That would probably solve the problem.

[Lifthrasir]

It is but I'd prefer something more "sophisticated"
Anyway, it has to be tested for sure to see how it works.

[Levan]

Monaspa units


Monaspa was professional cavalry force in 12-13th centuries. These warriors were veterans of different nationalities and social classes. Mostly Georgian nobles who had lost lands and property, commoners who had proven their capabilities, Kypchaks who played important role in strengthening the Kingdom. Also Armenians, Kurds and others. For example, Zakaria Mkhargrdzeli, who was Kurd by nationality, became Amirspasalar(chief commander) of Georgia for his loyalty while serving in Monaspa.
Even though they were elite warriors, they weren't wealthy enough to get the best equipment. King was spending from state treasury for them. So, if we note that their number was a few thousand, then logically each of them couldn't have lamellar armor and only a few would have horse armor.
So, only Monaspa Guard should have horse armor and entirely lamellar/scale armors. The rest should have mix of chain mail and lamellar, also no horse armor.
All the Monaspa units should have elements of both Georgian and Kypchak(Cuman) armor to highlight their nationalities. There are some Georgian frescoes influenced by Kypchak/Rus equipment etc.


Let's sum up why they are inaccurate in Broken Crescent:
1)They have only scale armor.
2)They have Persian Pointed helmets which is completely inaccurate.
3)They have curved swords which belong to later centuries.
4)They have leather pteruges(roman leather stripes).
4)They are the best and heaviest units in the roster(Monaspa Guard should be one of the heaviest but that doesn't count).



Their Shields:
On Tier 1 they should have mostly tear shaped shields. On Tier 2 mostly round shields. Round shields should have metal reinforcements only in the middle and the edges. Same for tear shaped shields, mostly use painted crosses with some reinforcement.


@Khevsur has drawn these shields according to Georgian frescoes:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Round shields:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Their Helmets:
All Georgian units on all tiers should have only egg shaped helmets. Except Monaspa who should have Kypchak/Rus helmets as well.
Egg-shaped helmets:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Monaspa warrior with Kypchak equipment:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Rus helmets:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Their Armor
As i said, they should have both mail and lamellar armor. All of them should have mail coifs and chain mail on arms. On Tier 2 on legs as well.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Warriors who have lamellar armor shouldn't have leather stripes on shoulders and lower part of the body like in Broken Crescent. Instead they should have either chail mail or the same lamellar covers. Also many had metal spaulders.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Rus lamellar armor

Swords
They should have Byzantine type straight swords. Even on Tier 2, you should only partially use Georgian curved swords.(Georgian curved sword is noticeably less curved than others, just like in Broken Crescent).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Straight sword

[Lifthrasir]

Many thanks for the info That's going to be very useful.

Below, the map changes:

- Euphrates & Tigris rivers:

Current version.


Version corrected.

-Arax river implemented:


- Region adjustments:

Current game.


Version adjusted. To sumarize: Sivas region extended to the East. Erzurum region is now about 50% smaller. Kutaissi region slightly enlarged in South-West (beside Trebizon region). Tbilissi region expanded a bit to the East. Same for Ani region (still rebel in this pic). Baku region expanded to the South.
Regarding Baku, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to replace it by Shemakha (more in West - see 2nd map here for more info).

[Jurand of Cracow]

Great work, Lifth.
Minor observations:
- the map should be pertinent to the whole period of 400 years. I'm not sure if those two "toungues" of Kacheti into Shirvan was also "Georgian" for they later centuries, say from 1200s,
- I think Arsanias should connect to Euphrates close to Malatya
A general thought: let the game trace the roads and have a look if there's no "dead" parts of the map, where the forces would have no reason to walk to. For instance, if there'll road from Malatya to Qualiqala.
No idea about Shemakha.

[Levan]

These changes are excellent. But southern Georgia is not represented well. Why you guys want to have Ani and Trebizond bordering each other? Wouldn't that boost up economics of Ani region and make KOG unbalanced as you said? Also, southern Georgia should have territories to the East as well, basically it should be almost as large as western Georgia.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

To the left, southernmost important Georgian city, old Bagrationi residence.

It should be like this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I hope you won't sacrifice historical borders for the gameplay, there must be other solution.

Edit:
Those two "tongues" in idea have Gandza in between right? Then, you should know that Gandza was far from modern Georgian borders, so you can just slightly increase Tbilisi's territories without "tongues" like this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

As you see Gandza is quite far. In idea, Southern tongue was part of Ani region(Armenia).

[Lifthrasir]

@ JoC, with the map above given by Levan, I'll correct the "tongues" accordingly: the one in North will be reduced a bit and the one in South will be removed for the benefit of Ani province.
Also, you can't make a map for 400 years of real history. We can just make one at a date and then try to set the similar conditions and see "what would happens if..." As pointed by Levan, the KoG didn't actually change much during the game period. That's not an issue, really
Arsanias (but I guess you actually meant Murat river) is connected to Euphrates. Look at the 2nd pic I've posted, just a bit of North-East of Malatya. If necessary, I can repost the pic with the rivers highlighted
Finally, be assured that there shouldn't be any "dead end" or resources/characters location issue. I've checked that carefully with Geomod and also in game. I can already tell you that Erzurum (Qaliqala on the map) seems to become a strategic point to invade or defend KoG on the Western side (but without blockating the access to Georgia ). You need to trust me

@ Levan, I have no problem to enlarge the Kutaissi South-West part as you said. That shouldn't impact the game much honestly
What about Baku province? On a previous pic you posted, the border with Tabriz province (North Iran) was further South compare to the one you posted above. So, where was that border?

After some researches, Baku seems to have become the Shirvan capital from 1191 AD and onward. It was prosperous while Shemakha seems to have declined. So for now, I keep Baku.

Edit 1: below the Erzurum region updated with colours for better understanding:
- In blue, the rivers.
- In orange, Sivas province.
- In green, Erzurum province.
- Red arrows for bridges or passages.



Edit 2: @ Levan, yes, the "tongues" are to represent the Georgian territory around Gandza. If the last map you posted is also fine for the 12th century, then I can use it as reference