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Thread: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

  1. #1
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)





    Since it has been brought, here are the specific thread for the Kingdom of Georgia. I'm starting with some stuff found around in TWC

    From Medieval Kingdoms Total War Mod (Attila Hosted Modifications):
    Quote Originally Posted by Caucasian Iberia View Post
    K. of Georgia, E. of Trebizond, Cumans, Alans: some historical facts and family tree.

    Kingdom of Georgia:

    Monarch: Queen Tamar (Bagrationi Dynasty grand daughter of David IV "The builder") age: 49
    King: David Soslan (Prince of Alania) Died in 1207. Ruler of kingdom was Tamar.
    Prince: George IV (son of Tamar) age: 20
    Princess: Rusudan (Daughter of Tamar) age: 17

    General: Zakharia ("Mxargrdzeli" meaning: Longarmed) Kurdish prince serving Feudal Georgia. age: 55
    General: George (Bagrationi Branch prince) age: 25

    Brief History: Tamar became Queen of Georgia in 27th March 1184, he got Strong Kingdom from her Father George III. She continued politics of David IV and George III of domination on nearby Kingdoms. Georgia was trying to create buffer zone on the borders. In 1202 Suleiman II of Seljuks tried to invade But he was defeated (Battle of Basian) over the borders of Kingdom (small town Basian) and after 2 years Tamar Created another tributary Kingdom in Trebizond.


    Alans:
    (Tributary State to Kingdom of Georgia)
    King: Jadaron of Alania (dynasty unknown, age unknown, death unknown)
    Prince: Aton of Alania son of Jadaron (Dynasty unknown, age Unknown death unknown)
    Prince: David Soslan (Husband of Queen Tamar)
    Brief History: Alans (Ossetian) are persian speaking peoples (Iranian Alans), they established Alania in 8-9th centuries. After 10th century Georgian missioners established orthodox belief in Alans and they converted from Paganism and Zoroastrism to Orthodox. Capital of Alania was Maghas. Alans were hired by different Kingdoms for battles.

    (...)

    Empire of Trebizond:

    (Tributary State to Kingdom of Georgia) Interesting fact: Georgian historians called Trebizond Empire : "PONTUS".
    King: Alexios I of Trebizond - age: 30 (Created Trebizond Empire in 1204 by the help of his aunt Queen Tamar)
    Prince: David Komnenos - Brother of Alexios. Komnenos dynasty. Died in 1212
    Prince: John I of Trebizond - Son of Alexios I Age: Unknown
    Prince Manuel I of Trebizond - Son of Alexios, Husband of Rusudan of Georgia Age: Unknown
    princess: Name unknown - daughter of Alexios I, age: Unknown

    Brief History: Alexios I was Son of Manuel Komnenos (Sevastokrator of Byzantine Empire) and Rusudan (Daughter of George III of Georgia, Sister of Queen Tamar). During rebelion in Constantinople in 1185, his Father and his Grandfather were killed, and Rusudan took Alexios (4 years old) and his brother David(1 years old) to K. of Georgia. The remained in Georgia. in 1203 Georgian orthodox priests were robbed in Byzantine (Constantinople was besieged by Crusaders) so part of Georgian army invaded in byzantine and captured in succession Trebizond, Tchania, Liman, Samsun, Sinope, Kerasunt, Heraclea, Cotiora and other territories. Alexios I and his brother became rulers of the kingdom.
    Alexios I gathered Army in few years and launched few succesful campaigns against Turks and Defended his kingdom from Nicaea. His son-in-law Andronikos I became ruler from 1222-1235, after that his son John I of Trebizond
    Still from the same mod, in the Kingdom of Georgia thread (actually full of useful info but takes time to read all):
    Quote Originally Posted by Caucasian Iberia View Post
    Finally all agree on this roster. Waiting for Lts. and his skills.


    1 -
    Monaspa Guard - Royal Guard, Switch ability Lance - Sword - Bow (Full Lamellar horse Armor) - Upgrading stats in T2 and T3. (Design can be same for every tier if upgrading by stats)
    2 - Monaspa Cavalry - Heavy cavalry, SWITCH ability Lance-Sword (Can be used as Melee and Shock cavalry) (Upgrading by T2 and T3)
    3 - Tadzreuli Cavalry - Elite heavy shock cavalry - Unique Unit for this Faction - Excellent charge bonus, extended stamina (Full Lamellar horse Armor) (Upgrading by T2 and T3)
    4 - Aznauri Lancers - Medium Melee cavalry (Upgrading by T2 only)
    5 - Cuman medium horse archers
    6 - Cuman heavy horse archers
    7 - Aznauri horse Shotgunner (T3 unit - Late period unit)

    1 - Tadzreuli Guard (Same design unit better armored like in Picture, Byzantine type swords not Georgian type, Shields are perfect) - Elite heavy infantry (Swords + Maces + Axes) - Upgrading by T2 and T3
    2 - Aznauri Swordsmen - Heavy Infantry (Large Shields, Swords) - Upgrading by T2-T3
    3 -
    Metsikhovne spearmen - Heavy spearmen (Bigger shields, like in Georgian Aux in Mongol roster) - Bonus when in Cities and Castles and forts, Upgrading by T2-T3
    4 - Mtieli swordsmen - Medium infantry - Unique Unit for Faction - Very good stamina, Hiding anywhere, Enrage ability(Increasing melee attack) (Upgradin T2-T3)
    5 - Georgian Spearmen - Medium Spearmen (Upgrade to T2)

    6 - Levy Spearmen

    1 - Monaspa Archers - Heavy archers -
    SWITCH ability Bow+shield - Sword+shield
    2 - Metsikhovne Archers - Medium Archers -
    2x amunition when in Castles or Cities or forts, high reload rate. (T2 to T3)
    3 - Svan Archers - Light Archers - Unique Unit for Faction - Extended shooting Range, Hiding ability, Heavy shot, Poisoned shot, Firing shot, Whistling shot. (T2 to T3)
    4 - Svan Crossbowmen - Medium Crossbowmen - Hiding ability, heavy shot (Upgrade to T3)
    5 - Metsikhovne Shotgunners - Mediem SHotgunners - 2x amunition bonus when in Cities and Castles or forts. T3 unit.
    6 - Levy archers

    Agreed on This roster:
    Caucasian Iberia Group - Agree
    Saqartvelo55 - Agree
    Levan - Agree
    Tadzreuli - Agree
    JERUSALEM - Agree
    Khevsur - ?

    Dividing by Military buildings T1-T2-T3

    T1 building -----------------------------> T2 Building ------------------------------> T3 Building
    None -----------------------------------> Tadzreuli Cavalry --------------------------> Veteran Tadzreuli Cavalry
    Junior Monaspa -------------------------> Monaspa Cavalry --------------------------> Monaspa Guard
    Aznauri Lancers -------------------------> Same as T1 -------------------------------> Aznauri Horse Shotgunners
    Cuman light H.Archers -------------------> Cuman Heavy H.Archers -------------------> Same as T2

    None -----------------------------------> Dismounted Tadzreuli ---------------------> Dismounted Tadzreuli Guard
    None -----------------------------------> Aznauri Swordsmen -----------------------> Veteran Aznauri Swordsmen
    None -----------------------------------> Metsikhovne Spearmen --------------------> Veteran Metsikhovne Spearmen
    Mtieli Swordsmen ------------------------> Veteran Mtieli Swordsmen -----------------> Same as T2
    Georgian Spearmen ----------------------> Veteran Georgian Spearmen ---------------> Same as T2

    None -----------------------------------> Monaspa Archers --------------------------> Monaspa Guard Archers
    Metsikhovne Archers --------------------> Metsikhovne Crossbowmen------------------> Metsikhovne Shotgunners
    Svan Archers ---------------------------> Veteran Svan Archers ----------------------> Svan Guard
    Svan Crossbowmen -------------------- -> None -------------------------------------> Veteran Svan Crossbowmen
    Another source in TWC, from Anatolian Principalities Mod (M2 Kingdoms hosted mod), dedicated to the Kingdom of Georgia:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...83%A4%E1%83%9D

    Feel free to carry on
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; June 20, 2017 at 06:47 AM.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, of the Imperial House of Hader



  2. #2
    jurcek1987's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    So basically the roster should look like the one in Medieval Kingdoms. I think I'll wait until they release the update so I can pinch their textures

  3. #3
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Quote Originally Posted by jurcek1987 View Post
    So basically the roster should look like the one in Medieval Kingdoms. I think I'll wait until they release the update so I can pinch their textures
    I think we start 80 years earlier so there should be differences. Let's also have a look at what's now in the SSHIP, and how the HURB roster looks like.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    There's a thread in Dominion of the Sword too, but i don't know if it quite relevant.

  5. #5
    jurcek1987's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    There's a couple of Georgian dudes on Medieval Kingdoms forum that seem to know their stuff, might be wise to bring this thread to their attention

  6. #6
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    The problem is always: who is going to do the real work? The number of modders has slumped so. If you'd be determined to make the changes - that would be great! I don't think they guys form MKTW would be interested in helping us
    My proposition is: make many small changes. If it's possible to port some units fast - just do it. If some other improvements are possible - just do it. For instance: one may just rename Khevsureti Heavy Swordsmen (I've voiced my problems with the name of the unit, not with the unit per se) into Georgian Highlanders.

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    jurcek1987's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Nah I'm prepared to remake the whole roster, I just need very detailed instructions for each unit and, if possible, reference pics. It'll have to wait until I'm back from holidays though

  8. #8
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    An option for a short term solution could be just to reskin the actual models while looking for on how to improve that roster
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, of the Imperial House of Hader



  9. #9
    Tiro
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Hi guys,
    I could help you with Kingdom of Georgia. Based on frescoes, miniatures and researches of Georgian military historians, I can give you detailed information about units, titles, family trees, etc. And in detailed i mean very, very detailed information. Firstly because 12-14th centuries are one of the best known and well remained parts of Georgian history for several reasons. Secondly, i love Medieval 2 mods and i would like to have more accurate KOG than in Broken Crescent, which despite being fantastic at his times, is already outdated and quite inaccurate for a person who knows Georgian military history even on amateur level.
    Before i start, i would like to know a few things.
    1. Could you please tell me exactly which time period you are interested in?
    2. What kind of information do you need other than units?
    3. Also i would like to know who is going to work on the roster and faction overall?
    4. Lastly, should i write everything here or maybe you prefer PMs?
    Last edited by Levan; June 21, 2017 at 02:30 PM.

  10. #10
    Khevsur's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    I am ready

  11. #11

    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    I think for a short time we can re arrange existing units (ex: make Georgian Bodyguard a melee, make Metsikhovne Spearmen as a regular spearmen, rename and rearrange Eristavi Cavalry into Tadzreuli Cavalry, etc)

  12. #12
    Tiro
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Quote Originally Posted by umbracatervae777 View Post
    I think for a short time we can re arrange existing units (ex: make Georgian Bodyguard a melee, make Metsikhovne Spearmen as a regular spearmen, rename and rearrange Eristavi Cavalry into Tadzreuli Cavalry, etc)
    If you are going to only rearrange units for now then:
    1)Monaspa Royal Guard ------------ Royal Guard
    2)Monaspa Lancers ----------------- Tadzreuli Lancers
    3)Eristavi Cavalry ------------------ Aznauri Lancers
    4)Aznauri Cavalry ------------------ Msakhureuli Cavalry
    5)Khevsur Heavy Swordsmen ----- Mtieli Swordsmen
    6)Kartlian Spearmen --------------- Georgian Spearmen
    7)Dismounted Monaspa Lancers --- Dismounted Tadzreuli
    8)Tadzreuli Swordsmen ------------ Dismounted Aznauri
    9)Monaspa HA and Archers - Same. Later they should have Kypchak elements and Monaspa Lancers should be added as well.
    10)Georgian Horse Archers - Delete.

    This solution isn't the best because of inaccurate helmets, armor and swords, missing horse armor and units, etc.

  13. #13
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    @ Levan, thanks for coming here for input. appreciate.

    Basically, the mod covers a period from 1132Ad to about 1500AD.
    All kind of info is welcome: units, names, settlement size around 1132, etc...
    We haven't really decided yet who will make the changes. We will probably share the task. As the mod leader, I can be your contact if needed
    Finally, you can share your info in this thread to let anybody able to have access to them
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, of the Imperial House of Hader



  14. #14
    Tiro
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    In my opinion, the first change you should make is the map and settlements. If i'm not wrong, there are only two Georgian provinces and they have modern day borders... Actually the whole region is very inaccurate:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    This is the borders of KOG at the start of the game(1132):
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    How native Georgian provinces should look like at the start of the game(They are yellow except Tbilisi capital which was liberated in 1122):
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    This is the map at the end of 15th century. As you see, it is quite similar(Georgian provinces are Kartli, Imereti, Kakheti and Samtskhe):
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    And this is how modern Georgian borders were created which is obviously inaccurate for the mod:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Basically Georgia should have at least 4 native provinces, especially if we compare it to England which also has 4 native provinces.
    As for the region, more or less accurate map was in Broken Crescent 2.3.2(if i'm not wrong).
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    From left to right and top to bottom, Province (City)

    Georgian Provinces(white):
    Abkhazeti (Tskhumi)
    Imereti (Kutaisi)
    Meskheti (Artanuji)
    Kartli (Tbilisi)
    Kakheti (Telavi)

    Armenia:
    Orange (Ani)
    Blue (Dvin)
    Yellow - Erzurum and Van

    Shirvan:
    Grey (Shamakha and Baku)

    Brown - (Ganja) and Adarbadagan (Ardabil)



  15. #15
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Many thanks for the info.
    As the game is in its current state, I can represent 3 of the 4 Georgian native provinces by giving Ani to that faction at the start, once the Arax river is implemented and with Ani province borders slightly adjusted. That should do the "trick" and the result should be similar to the 2nd map you posted (the one under the outdated SSHIP map that I still have to update in the relevant thread ).

    We have reached the 200 provinces limit and unfortunately, I can't add a province without removing another.
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  16. #16
    Tiro
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    That limit is really frustrating.. Only 4 provinces for Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan together is like the whole British isles with the same limit. Looking at 17 provinces of Iberian peninsula.. my English and fantasy are too poor to describe what i feel.
    This may sound rude but is it possible to remove some "less important" province or provinces on the edges of the map? Maybe you could find a solution but either way i won't bother you with this problem.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    City/Castle, Sizes

    As for city sizes, the largest most likely was Tbilisi. Roughly, at the start of 13th century its population was around 100 000. Although, in 1132 this number would be considerably lower because of tough political situation, mostly constant wars and raids a few dozen years earlier. Anyway it's population would be quite large, lets say 40-50 thousand which is still plenty for medieval times if i'm not wrong.
    If we were looking for only historical accuracy then each of the city/castle in the region should be large with stone walls. But for the game you can make one of them smaller. For example, Kutaisi with only wooden wall, etc. If an extra province won't make it in the game then only Azerbaijan can start as a castle, also Daruband. Definitely not Ani, Kutaisi or Tbilisi, even though Tbilisi starts as castle in Broken Crescent. Largest city shouldn't be castle just because it had a cidatel.

    Religion Roughly

    Western Georgian should be 95% Orthodox Christian.
    Eastern Georgia - 75% Orthodox, 10% Shia Muslim, 10% Gregorian Christian.
    Armenia - 75% Gregorian, 10% Shia and Sunni Muslims, 10% Orthodox.
    Azerbaijan - 80% Shia, 10% Gregorian, 5% Orthodox.
    Note that i have left 5% in each province for all the rest religions, mostly Judaism since there were large Jewish communities especially in Georgia.

    Character Names

    Do Generals, merchants and spies/assassins share the same surnames? If yes, then just take them from the Broken Crescent. But if each of these roles have their own pools for surnames then i will post them later. Noble surnames for Generals, commoner ones for the rest and also maybe Georgianized Jewish surnames for merchants.

    Titles

    Monarch ----------------------- Mephet Mephe (King of the Kings literally)
    Successor --------------------- Mephe
    Chief Commander ------------ Amirspasalari
    Ruler of province ------------- Eristavi

    Head of medieval FBI ---------------------------------------- Elder of Mandaturs(men with mandate?) or "Mandaturtukhutsesi".
    Finance minister or Treasurer ----------------------------------- Elder of Mechurchles(Treasurers) or "Mechurchletukhutsesi".
    Both secular and Ecclesiastical title, right hand of the king --- Elder of Mtsignobars(Clerks) or "Mtsignobartukhutsesi"
    I guess this is enough

    Family

    Dynasty - Bagrationi
    Monarch ------------------ Demetre I - ruled (1125-1155 and 1156), lived (1093-1156).
    Elder son ----------------- David V - ruled (1155-1156), lived (?-1156). Angry for not being successor. Revolted, succeeded, ruled for 6 months, died. He had son Demna who also revolted later.
    Younger son ------------- Giorgi III - ruled (1156-1184), lived (?-1184) Successor. His daughter Tamar(1160-1210) Became Queen and ruled from 1184 to 1210.
    Daughter ---------------- Rusudan - lived (?-1208)

    Amirspasalari ----------- Sumbat Orbeli. His son Ivane Orbeli was Chief Commander of Georgia too from ~1160 to 1177.

    I guess i have touched every issue except the most important - units. I may have forgotten many details, so just ask and i will answer. From now i will post general list of units and i will review each of them in details.
    Last edited by Levan; June 22, 2017 at 06:16 PM.

  17. #17
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Thanks for all this information - a good preparation for my holidays!

    I think what we need the most for the game is a remake of the units so that they represent more faithfully the Medieval Georgian army while keeping the game playable and balanced (no units like the Byzantine kata-tanks that existed in the previous versions of the SS).

    The number of the provinces in the different regions was - I think - on of the most irksome problem of the modders in the past and was one of the factors leading to the fragmentation of the modding projects, so I wouldn't start a discussion on this issue. This is the legacy of the creators of the SSHIP.

  18. #18
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Many thanks Levan
    We'd need about at least 50 extra regions to make the map more accurate. Most of the actual map was done by the first team and numerous contributors. You can see the discussions in the original mod thread (at least the 20-25 first pages). I think we have to deal with it for now and until we decide if it is worth or not to modify the map in a more significant way.

    About religions, we have the following one in SSHIP:
    - Catholic
    - Orthodox
    - Muslim
    - Pagan
    I can't remember the limit for religions but there are free rooms for more. Though, we have only 1 room left for culture (if I remember correctly again). I've been thinking to separate Shia and Sunni for Muslims but that's another discussion.

    Noted about the settlements size and kind. I'll see how to correct that while implementing the map as well
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, of the Imperial House of Hader



  19. #19
    Tiro
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    There are 10 religions in Broken Crecent. I have just checked it and i found out that there is even a third branch of Muslims - Khariji. I googled it and i have to say that's why i love BC and such mods - for the details which give incomparable immersion to the game.
    For the sake of historical accuracy you should definitely separate Muslims and add Judaism. Adding Gregorian Christianity would also be judicious since there will be Cilician Armenia. Oh wait, it's not there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    I think what we need the most for the game is a remake of the units so that they represent more faithfully the Medieval Georgian army while keeping the game playable and balanced (no units like the Byzantine kata-tanks that existed in the previous versions of the SS)
    I have to say in advance that shock cavalry was the main strength of Georgia. For heavy cavalrymen Georgians used a word "torosani" which means oven bearer. This says something. But i will try my best not to exaggerate anything, to be honest only few hundred nobles or guards would have such equipment to be called ovens. So, in the game they should be limited.
    Here are some written sources originally posted by @Caucasian Iberia. Unfortunately you won't find a fresco neither Georgian or Byzantine with horse armor other than armor of horse's neck which was guarding only from sword swings.
    Spoiler for horse armor in Georgia

    Tbilisi state University, Georgian History Institute, 2012 VOL V p82-100.
    Professor Mamuka Tsurtsumia.


    "Research into horse armour in Georgia comes across many obstacles. In the first place note should be taken of the non-existence of archaeological specimens, and generally of any material evidences. Matters are complicated further by the absence of a full-valued representations of horse armour; this may be accounted for by the tradition established in Orthodox iconography, which did not reflect an armoured horse from the beginning. Nevertheless, horse armour has a long history in Georgia.
    The tradition of fighting on an armoured horse is attested to from the time of Vakhtang Gorgasali(V century). Reports on Georgian horse armour become more numerous in the Middle Ages. Early in the 11th century, when the Georgian kingdom is formed and the Georgian feudal class is on the rise, the heavy armament and armoured horses were reflected in the writings of Byzantine and Armenian authors. Horse armour is attested to in Georgian documents and narrative sources as well. Belles-lettres also supplies diverse material on horse armour. The evidence preserved in Georgian written sources enables one to discuss the types of horse armour and it's constituent parts, such as chamfron, crinet and barding. A review of horse armour helps us to form an idea of medieval Georgian heavily armed cavalrymen, which points to the high level of warfare and the considerable resources spent by the Georgian feudal society on armament."

    written sources:

    Georgian chronicler Djuansher (VIII century) wrote: ".... and his warriors marched fully ready, with Torosani-cavalry and heavy-Infantry. Torni or Tori mean heavy armor in old Georgian, this word was used until 18th century. It is interesting that Torosani was used together with Cavalry and infantry was mentioned after..." "... and he mounted on the chosen horse armored with iron..."




    Byzantine Chronicler Michael Attaleiates (XI century) described Battle of Shirimni and clash of Basil II of Byzantine and George I of Georgia:
    "... courage didn't come because of their(Georgians) number but their strong armor protecting them and their horses from any angle..." (Describes lamellar armor for horse) ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Shirimni


    Armenian Chronicler Aristarchus(XI century) also described same Battle of Shirimni and said that reason of defeat of Georgians was their heavy armor: "...Georgians show up bravely and chased them, but horses were exhausted because of wearing heavily armored warrior, horse armor and heavy arms on high speed and long range..." (describes lamellar armor for horse)


    1300-1325 years Georgian document describing Arsenal of the kingdom says: "... and all the reliable saddles, accessories, everything in it, armor for horses, bridles and head-pieces for horses..." (Describes Lamellar armor for horse)


    in 1400-1450 years, unknown chronicler wrote: "... he sent a gift to Eristav of Argveti, strong body armors and horses torosani, flags and lances..." (describes lamellar armor for horse)


    Sources from Georgian medieval literature:
    " the Knight in the panther's skin"poem century, author Shota Rustaveli: "... men and horses wear the armor ..." verse 1569 (describes chain with metal plates armor for horse)


    "Amiran-Daredjniani" 12th century, author Moses Khoneli: "... was amored with everything possible and mounted on Armored horse..." "...he was giant and eager - human and horse in iron..." (Describes chain with methal plates armor for horse) --> "... and they collide each other and there was sound of impact of irons of the horses which is very devastating..." (describes chain with metal plates armor for horse)
    "... they equip the horse with an Iron on the head, chest, sides and back, saddle and bridle..." (describes chain with metal plates armor for horse)

    "Rusudaniani" 13th century "... his horse was hit by the missile, cut through chain and hurt the horse..." (describes chain armor for horse)
    "... his horse was armored so hard that there was not a spear or missile possible to cut through it..."(Describes Lamellar armor for horse)
    "... and swinged the sword to his horse and cutdown the head..."


    "Georgians were usingLamellar, chain with small metal plates, chain and leather armor for horses.
    Horse-Torosani mean warhorse with lamellar armor, which appears from V to XV centuries."

    The only material image of horse armor in Georgia is neck armor for horse imaged on monastery of Nikortsminda, on the north side walls, showing St. George and St Theodore on the horses which wear armor. XI century

    We must mention that Horse armor was used by Nobles an their guards, because of it's high price. Lamellar armor for horses consisted only for very heavy shock cavalry of aristocracy.

    X-XI centuries byzantine's chroniclers describe horse armor of cataphracts as leather or Chainmail while Michael Attaleiates described Georgian horse armor as combine heavy lamellar armor which was reason of Defeat of George I in the battle of Shirimni. We can conclude that Medieval Georgian cavalry was heavier than Byzantine Cavalry which was reason of feudal structue, Georgian nobles were not thrifty to get best armor and arms for their warriors,but Byzantine was spending money from state treasure and not by nobles themselves.

    We dont want the reader to think that Medieval Georgia was stronger than byzantine which is absurdity. We say that Georgian military structure enabled to have expensive horse armor for nobles and their personal guards which was united in frontal super heavy cavalry.

    Therefore research on horse armor shows elite Georgian cavalry in medieval ages, high military knowledge and vast
    resources spent by feudal aristocracy on military equipment."
    Last edited by Levan; June 23, 2017 at 04:51 AM.

  20. #20
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

    Cilician Armenia can't be represented as a faction (bloody game limits again ) but at least, can be represented by some units (AoR and/or local mercenaries)

    Btw, question for Joc about the rivers correction: have you noticed that there's a missing branch for the Euphrate (the western one, starting North of Erzurum)?
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; June 23, 2017 at 05:37 AM.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, of the Imperial House of Hader



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