Is the Media Cheapening and Damaging Language?

[Prodromos]

And yet the same amount of time here you simply expel un-sourced and un-defended claims to you liking. And in fact refuse to elaborate or defend any of them in any detail. Great I say the public schools exist to make us all the slaves of the left hand of darkness when she comes in dark glory and eats our souls and still beating hearts - about what you usually type.

And sorry having mostly attended well funded schools in a blue state with Tax dollars my kids could actually answer those questions. Like saying the color of clouds is because of the atmosphere and light diffraction, the number of legs is well not absolute and you would in fact need to count although most people really don't want to do that and I pretty sure the Millipede in question does not want you to. Where is the Butterfly going I don't know and unless the man has trust fund the kid will not find out because he is suppose to earning a living according to you not following bugs. The obvious best guesses can be generated by publicly educated kids. To find nectar, hide or be eaten or die or breed fast and then do any of the other options.

So really Dr Legend nice joke - pointless. Maybe if you liked those taxes that school would be an education.

I think most schools mostly teach things that people will never actually use after graduation. And as for the things that really are useful in the real world, the education system either doesn't teach them or fails at correctly teaching them; most students memorize enough to pass the class and then just completely forget everything afterwards. School is not really the best place for an education. Just ask the most accomplished students, you'll probably see that they do most of their learning at home. For instance, I bet a dozen hours of playing Paradox or Total War games is more effective, when it comes to geography learning, than a dozen years of schooling. Here's a funny video.

[antaeus]

I think most schools mostly teach things that people will never actually use after graduation. And as for the things that really are useful in the real world, the education system either doesn't teach them or fails at correctly teaching them; most students memorize enough to pass the class and then just completely forget everything afterwards. School is not really the best place for an education. Just ask the most accomplished students, you'll probably see that they do most of their learning at home. For instance, I bet a dozen hours of playing Paradox or Total War games is more effective, when it comes to geography learning, than a dozen years of schooling. Here's a funny video.

ignoring the vast generalisations in this statement considering we're all speaking the same language here and are from dozens of different countries and have all gone through some level of education in very different systems to get to this debate...

[bigdaddy1204]

I think most schools mostly teach things that people will never actually use after graduation. And as for the things that really are useful in the real world, the education system either doesn't teach them or fails at correctly teaching them; most students memorize enough to pass the class and then just completely forget everything afterwards. School is not really the best place for an education. Just ask the most accomplished students, you'll probably see that they do most of their learning at home. For instance, I bet a dozen hours of playing Paradox or Total War games is more effective, when it comes to geography learning, than a dozen years of schooling. Here's a funny video.

Completely agree.

I've always strongly felt the same thing. School was full of useless and irrelevant information, while the topics of real importance weren't even covered at all.

For example, what's the point learning about electron shells, or the different types of sedimentary rock formations, when school teaches nothing about politics, what the main political parties are, their history and what they stand for, how your vote works, and how your country fits into the world? What about how to manage relationships, how to behave with other people, how to manage your money? These are some of the most fundamental questions we face in our lives, and school teaches none of them.

School needs to teach more about ways of thinking, seeing, behaving and being, and less about how an oxbow lake is formed. Many of these details would be better left to specialist courses pursued in higher education, freeing up time in the compulsory curriculum for more important material. People should also be more aware of the way their government (in nearly every country) is often an untrustworthy liar that is trying to screw them over. They should not believe everything an authority or the media tells them and should think more critically for themselves.

Object should be to produce socially aware, engaged and informed citizens who have developed the right skills and values and attitudes to contribute something positive to society, not mindless drones who can't find New York (or Istanbul or Paris or wherever else) on a map of their own damn country.

[antaeus]

Completely agree.

I've always strongly felt the same thing. School was full of useless and irrelevant information, while the topics of real importance weren't even covered at all.

For example, what's the point learning about electron shells, or the different types of sedimentary rock formations, when school teaches nothing about politics, what the main political parties are, their history and what they stand for, how your vote works, and how your country fits into the world? What about how to manage relationships, how to behave with other people, how to manage your money? These are some of the most fundamental questions we face in our lives, and school teaches none of them.

You feel it was full of useless information because you went on to specialise after you left, so seemingly only the area you specialised in was important. But the purpose of primary/elementary schools is to set a very broad base of knowledge and understanding over a wide range of subjects. This gives the budding teenager an informed opinion on the areas they might specialise in as they grow and develop. It does however mean that a lot of schooling may seem pointless once you specialise, but even this is a misplaced fear. I seemingly have no need for the art history courses I took. I'm a web developer - they would seem pointless. However I did learn how to research, how to present information, how to structure arguments etc - which has all been invaluable. The same is true of geography or calculus... they give me a more flexible set of soft skills which I use in other ways.

To address your comments more directly... I imagine people who go on to work in scientific fields, research, astronomy, rocketry etc etc... industries of the future probably feel that understanding electron shells are important, and learning that was the first step in their careers. I imagine geologists, surveyors, engineers and architects probably benefit from basic geology. As for an understanding of politics and your nation's place... doesn't that start with basic history? Do American's not learn about their founding fathers and the principles of their democracy for example? I know where I live I got history classes with that stuff. I also learned both sides of those stories.

School needs to teach more about ways of thinking, seeing, behaving and being, and less about how an oxbow lake is formed. Many of these details would be better left to specialist courses pursued in higher education, freeing up time in the compulsory curriculum for more important material. People should also be more aware of the way their government (in nearly every country) is often an untrustworthy liar that is trying to screw them over. They should not believe everything an authority or the media tells them and should think more critically for themselves.

The most important thing I took out of my education, was critical thinking. But I'm not sure you're ever going to find state funded schools undermining the state that sets their curriculum and funds it's implementation. However once students progress to high school and (more likely privatised) university they are increasingly asked to question. By university the whole point is to ask questions and think critically. No level of self learning will replace the university students ability to propose ideas to fellow students and have them challenged and developed.

Object should be to produce socially aware, engaged and informed citizens who have developed the right skills and values and attitudes to contribute something positive to society, not mindless drones who can't find New York (or Istanbul or Paris or wherever else) on a map of their own damn country.

I agree with this. I think the problem isn't specifically schools or the way they teach... given that there are dozens of different education systems around the world which all teach differently and come out with mostly similar results. Rather I think the problems with education are more to do with problems in wider society - for example: poverty is well documented as producing children who struggle to learn thanks to poor diet and home stress.

[Love Mountain]

You feel it was full of useless information because you went on to specialise after you left, so seemingly only the area you specialised in was important. But the purpose of primary/elementary schools is to set a very broad base of knowledge and understanding over a wide range of subjects.

When has this ever happened? The majority of people learn math, they're still at it. History and Science certainly doesn't sink in. Quite honestly in my day, I graduated in 2013, the majority of people learned from the internet and had a brief "dip" into this broad base of knowledge. They certainly never got any understanding of it or any significant base from it. Roughly half of the high school is competent enough to go to college, and that's me being generous. A very large percentage of those going to college simply shouldn't go. They're not cut out for it.

The most important thing I took out of my education, was critical thinking. But I'm not sure you're ever going to find state funded schools undermining the state that sets their curriculum and funds it's implementation. However once students progress to high school and (more likely privatised) university they are increasingly asked to question. By university the whole point is to ask questions and think critically. No level of self learning will replace the university students ability to propose ideas to fellow students and have them challenged and developed.

The majority of people didn't learn critical thinking. The nerds and losers learned to be cynics because they just sit in front of their Internet all day, and others are pre-occupied with real life. There are real things that are missing from education, and about half of the K-12 curriculum is a waste of resources.


Keep in mind I'm speaking about the United States, a country criticized for its education system. A system where quality is extremely sporadic within it. I went to one of the better schools, and I gotta say it's been a damn disappointment. Always been a waste of time, for those who are too smart for it, and for those who don't care for it. I'm against so many years of school being mandatory. It's just ridiculous. At age 16 you're basically an adult physically. You should be able to dedicate your life to something full time at that point, whether it's education, a craft, or just simply living life. Spend the extra money on poor neighborhoods instead...

[Prodromos]

American students actually have among the best scores on math, science and reading the world, which is pretty scary when you realize how ignorant American students are.

[fkizz]

When has this ever happened? The majority of people learn math, they're still at it. History and Science certainly doesn't sink in. Quite honestly in my day, I graduated in 2013, the majority of people learned from the internet and had a brief "dip" into this broad base of knowledge. They certainly never got any understanding of it or any significant base from it. Roughly half of the high school is competent enough to go to college, and that's me being generous. A very large percentage of those going to college simply shouldn't go. They're not cut out for it.

But this is the objective of School. To make people submissive to a post-Industrialization and/or Industrialized society, while creating Class differention, even if Artificially (sometimes a math test is relatively easy, but at such ages it depends on their family background).
From this ultra-pragmatic point of view, education system is a sucess. Why then would it be changed?

People in rural environments didn't start working at exactly 9 Am to have a lunch break at 12:30 PM to re-enter at 13:15 PM and etc every single day (basically to not be a dissident of a lifestyle where the institution dictates how your time is spent.)
They simply had sun as reference. No sun, time to rest. Sun started rising, time to start working by sunrise. Oh at it also depended on how the crops were. You could have days of 12 hours of work and days of basically no work depending on harvest.

The point of College is to make sure the ones who learn extra in some specialization are still submissive to assembly line schedules lifestyle. Can't have intellectualized dissidents, better to format their mind and force conformism while they learn.

against so many years of school being mandatory. It's just ridiculous. At age 16 you're basically an adult physically. You should be able to dedicate your life to something full time at that point, whether it's education, a craft, or just simply living life. Spend the extra money on poor neighborhoods instead...

That's the point. In our civil code you can even be considered adult by age of 16 y.o., but requires marriage with parents aproval. In earlier years, it was common for a 14-13 y.o. to work part time while studying, basically treated as adult by 14 y.o... but now it's considered "child labour". Some even reached PhD with such "cruel" beginnings.